Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Gioka]

So... It has almost been a day since Corocoro... We haven't gotten any official statements on the info, does that mean we can finally embrace it then?

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

So... It has almost been a day since Corocoro... We haven't gotten any official statements on the info, does that mean we can finally embrace it then?

I'd say yes by this time tomorrow. It's midday on Monday there for them, they likely need to decide how to respond if it was a mistake.

 

[TappyBat]

Do you guys think Sakurai is aware of isaac? Like how requested he is?

golden sun was freaking trending day of the direct. someone had to notice

 

[Q-Long]

https://youtu.be/rN_xIRDp88c

I love golden sun but I cant imagine playing it speedrun style 5 hrs straight. That's crazy lol

 

[User Name String]

Both commercials in a music hall? With BOTH THEMES OF USING CLASSICAL INSTRUMENTS?

COINCIDENCE I THINK NOT!!!!

You know I knew about the the Chandelier Dragon and the wand but I NEVER saw the Fiery Crossbow Violins vs a demonic angel statue. Why is that not talked about?
Edit: And the amazing cymbal thrower.

 

[TempestSurge]

Either way. I feel like the box theory is deflating, and with more evidence to suggesting at least 5 stages, we might be good.

Another thing is this could be someone's way to get creative and pretty with the box. It's not like there's a certain way the box has to be made since meanwhile on Sakurai's Twitter he retweeted the Japanese special bundle and the box is designed in a completely different way.

Also I'm sure the Corocoro magazine would be discussed more if it repeated the 103 number, but since it disproves the current mentality of no new stages, only two more newcomers etc. it's being ignored. There are some people who feel satisfied with the roster as is, certainly makes it easier to be a boxist.

Even if I had Isaac I'd still hate the theory as ever since Smash 4 started introducing characters with trailers, seeing how Sakurai goes about showcasing the characters personality and strengths with the trailer is one of the fun parts about newcomers and getting only a few this go around would be quite a bummer.

 

[KMDP]

https://youtu.be/rN_xIRDp88c

I love golden sun but I cant imagine playing it speedrun style 5 hrs straight. That's crazy lol

I want to see a 100% Lost Age run.

Well... what I actually want to see is a dual Broken Seal/Lost Age 100% run.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

At this point I see the boxists as Muslim pilgrims walking around the Ka'aba in Mecca. Who are we to judge them for their faith?

 

[Malkior7]

Do you guys think Sakurai is aware of isaac? Like how requested he is?

I'm 100% positive he knows about Isaac's popularity. I mean in the August Direct he said Dark Samus was a highly requested character so if he knew about her there is no way he doesn't know about Isaac.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Another thing is this could be someone's way to get creative and pretty with the box. It's not like there's a certain way the box has to be made since meanwhile on Sakurai's Twitter he retweeted the Japanese special bundle and the box is designed in a completely different way.

Also I'm sure the Corocoro magazine would be discussed more if it repeated the 103 number, but since it disproves the current mentality of no new stages, only two more newcomers etc. it's being ignored. There are some people who feel satisfied with the roster as is, certainly makes it easier to be a boxist.

Even if I had Isaac I'd still hate the theory as ever since Smash 4 started introducing characters with trailers, seeing how Sakurai goes about showcasing the characters personality and strengths with the trailer is one of the fun parts about newcomers and getting only a few this go around would be quite a bummer.

Well, I doubted the theory since...2 hours after it was conceived. And with how many more stages there is, and how that amount could perfectly fit on the empty space, I feel like this is a lock.

And lol. People ignoring it, even though it has brand new screenshots to go along with it? Yeah. At this point, you're finding ways to convince yourself that there's less content than you want. (Talking about the boxists.)

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

We're already coming up on 18k posts in this thread. Someone at NOA has to be seeing us at the very least.

 

[TappyBat]

We're already coming up on 18k posts in this thread. Someone at NOA has to be seeing us at the very least.

do they even use this site?

 

[SonicLink125]

do they even use this site?

I hope they are aware of this place. And are using it to see who to reveal next in a smash direct. That would be sweet!

 

[KMDP]

do they even use this site?

I can almost guarantee someone from Nintendo is spying on fan forums like this one.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

do they even use this site?

There's entire departments in big companies that scour social media like this for public opinion and stuff like that. Whether nintendo employs the practice or not I'm not sure, but I'd hope so.

 

[?!?!?!]

There's entire departments in big companies that scour social media like this for public opinion and stuff like that. Whether nintendo employs the practice or not I'm not sure, but I'd hope so.

I'm sure they saw the smash 4 thread as well then, considering that one was even bigger than this one. Though we are definitely catching up

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Another thing is this could be someone's way to get creative and pretty with the box. It's not like there's a certain way the box has to be made since meanwhile on Sakurai's Twitter he retweeted the Japanese special bundle and the box is designed in a completely different way.

Also I'm sure the Corocoro magazine would be discussed more if it repeated the 103 number, but since it disproves the current mentality of no new stages, only two more newcomers etc. it's being ignored. There are some people who feel satisfied with the roster as is, certainly makes it easier to be a boxist.

Even if I had Isaac I'd still hate the theory as ever since Smash 4 started introducing characters with trailers, seeing how Sakurai goes about showcasing the characters personality and strengths with the trailer is one of the fun parts about newcomers and getting only a few this go around would be quite a bummer.

Wait where's the retweet in question? I just checked his twitter and I didn't see the retweet.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

There's entire departments in big companies that scour social media like this for public opinion and stuff like that. Whether nintendo employs the practice or not I'm not sure, but I'd hope so.

Considering Nintendo is perhaps the most out-of-touch game developer, I wouldn't be surprised if they lack a forum-lurker department.

 

[Q-Long]

I'm 100% positive he knows about Isaac's popularity. I mean in the August Direct he said Dark Samus was a highly requested character so if he knew about her there is no way he doesn't know about Isaac.

I think he's mentioned the same thing for Ridley and King K Rool

Makes me wonder what his personal tastes for characters are. And his team's.

If I recall correctly he has stated before having wanted to add the following: Geno, Sigurd, Balloon Fighter, Ayumi Tachibani, and Takamaru at points in different points of Smash's history. He also pushed to have Fire Emblem characters in Melee and had an influence in Pit's, Ice Climbers, and Snake's inclusion.

The team also loves Castlevania music. He seems like such a nice guy, I bet you his team had at least some influence on the characters. At least a small handful. And definitely influence on the items, assist trophies, and pokeballs. I can already imagine stuff like "aww man sakurai, I wanted him playable"
"too bad! get back to work.", *sakurai smiles and laughs*

Sakurai is one of my favorite developers ever. I wonder what his favorite games are. I want to meet him before I go to Sky World

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Well, I doubted the theory since...2 hours after it was conceived. And with how many more stages there is, and how that amount could perfectly fit on the empty space, I feel like this is a lock.

And lol. People ignoring it, even though it has brand new screenshots to go along with it? Yeah. At this point, you're finding ways to convince yourself that there's less content than you want. (Talking about the boxists.)

Delete boxist threads.
Do not respond to boxist posts.
Ignore boxist comments.
Do not marry your daughters to boxist men.
Do not patron boxist businesses.

In time, the Boxist will learn he is a weak man, and that the Optimist is strong.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Considering Nintendo is perhaps the most out-of-touch game developer, I wouldn't be surprised if they lack a forum-lurker department.

Nintendo Treehouse members themselves have flat out stated they check what fans are saying on social media and forums and forward that information.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Considering Nintendo is perhaps the most out-of-touch game developer, I wouldn't be surprised if they lack a forum-lurker department.

They've been so much better since the Switch's release though. Just look at what's been coming: Luigi's Mansion 3, kirby game that gathers all the fan favorite villains and allies, a smash focused on fan requests, and now Animal Crossing Switch. All we need now is Pikmin 4 information and the fan prophecies shall have come to pass (and Isaac in Smash of course)

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I think he's mentioned the same thing for Ridley and King K Rool

Makes me wonder what his personal tastes for characters are. And his team's.

If I recall correctly he has stated before having wanted to add the following: Geno, Sigurd, Balloon Fighter, Ayumi Tachibani, and Takamaru at points in different points of Smash's history. He also pushed to have Fire Emblem characters in Melee and had an influence in Pit's, Ice Climbers, and Snake's inclusion.

The team also loves Castlevania music. He seems like such a nice guy, I bet you his team had at least some influence on the characters. At least a small handful. And definitely influence on the items, assist trophies, and pokeballs. I can already imagine stuff like "aww man sakurai, I wanted him playable"
"too bad! get back to work.", *sakurai smiles and laughs*

Sakurai is one of my favorite developers ever. I wonder what his favorite games are. I want to meet him before I go to Sky World

When you do go to Sky World, Sakurai will be right in front of you: his towering figure eclipsing the sun, drapped in linens white as fresh snow, his smile warmer than mother's embrace

 

[TempestSurge]

Wait where's the retweet in question? I just checked his twitter and I didn't see the retweet.

It's under the Isabelle picture montages. It shows the controller and if you click on the tweet and look in replies, you'll see a picture of the Japanese special bundle. Though now that I think about it, the box is from the OTHER angle. So if the boxes are indeed the same, it means there aren't characters lining that side as predicted. Of course the text is in Japanese so not sure ehats being said.

Edit: Actually theres a link that goes with the tweet that showcases the bundle without having to go in the replies. Forgot about that.

 

[Confirmation]

Have we gotten any new #s on the Smash site? I'd love to see anything line up suggesting a skipped character, as unlikely as it seems

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

It's under the Isabelle picture montages. It shows the controller and if you click on the tweet and look in replies, you'll see a picture of the Japanese special bundle. Though now that I think about it, the box is from the OTHER angle. So if the boxes are indeed the same, it means there aren't characters lining that side as predicted. Of course the text is in Japanese so not sure ehats being said.

Edit: Actually theres a link that goes with the tweet that showcases the bundle without having to go in the replies. Forgot about that.

Is this it? https://twitter.com/Abyss_Necro/status/1040378097705668608?s=20
We got anyone marginally literate in Nihongo here?

 

[Q-Long]

https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/the-definitive-unused-fighters-list-in-smash/
I had no clue he did so many interviews.

Q58: I’ve fallen in love with a game designer. I know it’ll never work out, but still… What should I do? By the way, their initials are “S. M.”
Sakurai: Ah, it’s Shinji Mikami, isn’t it? You should give it up. Huh? It’s not him? Then, possibly, Shigeru Miyamoto!?
Shinji Mikami... I would love seeing Sakurai tackle horror. Devil World Reboot?

Q62: What is your fetish?
Sakurai: I guess the chest.
Soul Calibur rep confirmed!

Q89: Which is your favorite Mobile Suit Gundam?
Sakurai: Probably DOM… I really like the eyes and the form. It’s a great design. A masterpiece.
Fellow Mech fan... awesome

When you do go to Sky World, Sakurai will be right in front of you: his towering figure eclipsing the sun, drapped in linens white as fresh snow, his smile warmer than mother's embrace

Hopefully he doesn't send me to Brinstar Depths or wherever because I will be asking him so many questions and trying to chill with him a lot.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Have we gotten any new #s on the Smash site? I'd love to see anything line up suggesting a skipped character, as unlikely as it seems

Isabelle's character trailer and memory are both on the Japanese Smash twitter, but aren't on the blog yet for whatever reason. I've got a bad feeling that if there was skipped content, they're going in and changing the order of those missing posts to hide any implications.

 

[JaidynReiman]

It's under the Isabelle picture montages. It shows the controller and if you click on the tweet and look in replies, you'll see a picture of the Japanese special bundle. Though now that I think about it, the box is from the OTHER angle. So if the boxes are indeed the same, it means there aren't characters lining that side as predicted. Of course the text is in Japanese so not sure ehats being said.

Edit: Actually theres a link that goes with the tweet that showcases the bundle without having to go in the replies. Forgot about that.

You're looking at the wrong thing. The Smash Ultimate Special Edition bundle is what has the characters listed on the side of the box, this has a steel care and a Smash controller. The Smash Ultimate Switch bundle comes with a download code for the game, a switch console with Smash symbols on it.

Isabelle's character trailer and memory are both on the Japanese Smash twitter, but aren't on the blog yet for whatever reason. I've got a bad feeling that if there was skipped content, they're going in and changing the order of those missing posts to hide any implications.

No matter what there's still a missing blog post from last Sunday. Even if they skipped AC content there's still a post missing, and even then it doesn't make sense to skip AC content except the music (if it relates directly to Isabelle).


I noticed that one of the Smash bundle images on the website have random characters in the image filename. It may be the case that happened.


Its weird that Isabelle isn't up yet...

 

[tveye]

Is this it? https://twitter.com/Abyss_Necro/status/1040378097705668608?s=20
We got anyone marginally literate in Nihongo here?

They're just talking about how the bundle comes out before December 7 and are wondering if they'll be able to use the download code included earlier to play before anyone else. Obviously they're just joking around.

 

[KMDP]

Q62: What is your fetish?
Sakurai: I guess the chest.
Soul Calibur rep confirmed!

Well, that explains Smash 4 Zamus, then.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

They're just talking about how the bundle comes out before December 7 and are wondering if they'll be able to use the download code included earlier to play before anyone else. Obviously they're just joking around.

Thanks buddy!

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

So the japanese special edition is the same box design as the Western one? Makes sense if true

 

[TempestSurge]

You're looking at the wrong thing. The Smash Ultimate Special Edition bundle is what has the characters listed on the side of the box, this has a steel care and a Smash controller. The Smash Ultimate Switch bundle comes with a download code for the game, a switch console with Smash symbols on it.



No matter what there's still a missing blog post from last Sunday. Even if they skipped AC content there's still a post missing, and even then it doesn't make sense to skip AC content except the music (if it relates directly to Isabelle).


I noticed that one of the Smash bundle images on the website have random characters in the image filename. It may be the case that happened.


Its weird that Isabelle isn't up yet...

Go figures, nothing's ever that simple to debunk anymore lol.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

When do the switch bundle and special launch? Don't they both drop in November?

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

When do the switch bundle and special launch? Don't they both drop in November?

The bundle with the switch special dock and special joy cons comes out November 2nd, the bundle with the steelbook and pro controller comes out December 7th

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

The bundle with the switch special dock and special joy cons comes out November 2nd, the bundle with the steelbook and pro controller comes out December 7th

Hmm, I guess the bundle version means nothing then.

 

[Metocles]

I wanted to consolidate my feeling of where we stand right now and where the roster stands right now heading into the final stretch.

First, being the remaining character count. Considering a lot of opinions I hear, I actually agree with 7-8 left with both uniques + echoes. If you were the most conservative in this guess, you'd say 2 complete uniques (no semiclones) and 3 echoes/semiclones left. I think a happy medium here is that we get 4 uniques and 3-4 echoes as we wind things down here. It's not a liberal estimation in my opinion given one more inevitable large smash direct plus anything we get between now and that point. Having that said... here's my speculations for what's out there.

Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid, Impa, Elma, Octoling, random Pokemon, Dixie, Ken, Shadow/Tails, BWD, Banjo, Rayman, Sora, Shantae, Paper Mario, Monster Hunter, Black Shadow, Rhythm Heaven Character, Black Knight and a Retro rep. I'm not saying this is the hyper-extensive list but I think these are the realistic 'players' at this point consolidating from the vibes I'm getting from both the smash community, leaking and general speculation. That's not to say we don't get Jeanne or Glass Joe but I'm not including them in my scope here.

[x] Skull Kid - As we move along, I see him more and more working as a boss character and less and less as a playable one. I think he would work really well in that capacity because you know that the Zelda series is going to need to have some kind of boss for the Spirits mode. I'm not saying he can't be playable, but his recent explosion feels more like a novel idea that he could be playable than having a long-standing movement behind him.

[x] Impa - I'd love to see her in here playable, but I don't think it's happening. The exit poll data isn't all that high for her? She's also becoming more iconic with her Biggoron sword than being a Sheik-like Sheikah.

[x] Elma - I'm going to predict that she's not playable but she'll be in the game somewhere, perhaps as an AT. This all depends on how Sakurai thinks about keep adding on Xeno characters with every game that comes along. Her popularity isn't a fever pitch either so that doesn't help her too much.

[x] Octoling - I'm in the camp of Octolings not being playable at all which is counter what is pretty common in predictions out there. First, there is the problem of an entirely new 8 different color palette and paint mechanic that already seems complicated with Inklings. Maybe they could figure that barrier out somehow, sure. I just get the feeling that they'll be DLC if anything since most of the popularity of the series went into putting the Inklings in when it was only recently people thought about the possibility of Octolings being echoes.

[x] Rayman, Sora, Crash, Spyro, Monster Hunter - Here's my main belief behind an excess for a lot of these 3rd parties; the more 3rd party reps we get, the less likely I see any of these others getting in. If Banjo and/or Geno is actually in, I just can't see Rayman happening, nor would I really like it if the priority were to get as many 3rd parties in as possible and skip out on new 1st party Nintendo franchises. In addition, we already have Simon and Richter which really pushes that feeling to the brink for me. A lot of these, even Banjo, feel like they'd be relegated to DLC if they were to get in at all and it's usually the perfect place to add them. That's how Sm4sh was treated, getting the super-heavy hitters from 3rd parties in base game with Pacman and Megaman, then using DLC to put in off-the-wall 3rd parties. I consider all of these to be the latter type.

[x] Shantae - I would actually love to play as Shantae as I think she has a really neat concept behind a playable character. I can't help but feel it's unlikely she's playable though. I do think she'll be in the game somewhere; maybe to join Shovel Knight as an AT or as a trophy. Her art style clashes a little bit and a smashified Shantae looks a little weird to me to be honest. It would be enormous if an Indie developer were capable of getting her in.

[x] Black Shadow and Black Knight as echoes - Black Knight is the same as Skull Kid for me, I think he's a boss to represent the FE characters and would be a good fit in that role. F-Zero is in a strange spot but Black Shadow didn't actually do too badly on the exit polls, so while I'm not expecting him, it wouldn't be too surprising if he were an echo of Cpt. Falcon. And I'd be glad to be wrong because F-Zero deserves it.

Now this is where it gets tough because there are a few left and I think this is what makes people so antsy. Most people only expect the number of characters left to conform to the number I speculated above - 4 with 3-4 echoes. Of the characters I listed for uniques, there's Isaac, Geno, random Pokemon, BWD, Paper Mario, Banjo, Rhythm Heaven character and a Retro Rep. So basically 8 to crush down into 4 . Echoes/Semiclones is better with 3-4 being speculated and having about that number left; Dixie, Ken and Shadow/Tails. I think Dixie is a shoo-in using this perspective and she should have been in by now anyway - she also has the popularity to back that up. So does Shadow, he places decently on polls and I think would translate very easily into being an echo which is why I would probably say him over Tails. That's an either/or situation.

Ken is actually an enigma to me and I'm surprised no one else has elaborated on this. Will he be in this game as an echo? Yes... I guess? He actually doesn't have popularity behind him, placing nowhere on exit polling. So no one asked for it, it just comes from two sources; Vergeben and general consensus. To be quite honest, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he weren't in. Yes, he makes all the sense in the world being the original echo and Vergeben is a grade A leaker, but consider that it would also be out of line with all of the characters we've gotten thus far. I could see it happening just like I could see it not happening, which would be hilarious to me. Ken is a nothing character to me in Smash Ultimate.

So, I think Paper Mario barely misses the cut (no pun intended) even though he was a very popular polling character. Call it a gut feeling because I have no basis for why he wouldn't be playable because there are things in his favor which I don't deny.

For the rest of it, I can think of two possible scenarios. Both of which, I think include Isaac.

1. Isaac, Geno, random Pokemon, BWD (possibly Banjo if my Ken theory is right). Basically the rest of the popular characters all in one package plus the inevitable Pokemon we get. BWD scores consistently higher than Paper Mario and Banjo is up there, but like I said before it's possible that it's relegated towards a possible DLC if we do get anything.

2. Isaac, Geno, random Pokemon, random retro Rep (possibly Rhythm Heaven if Ken theory is right). Basically a mixture of long-standing popularity plus the trend of Sakurai and Nintendo picks. Isaac and Geno for the fans, random Pokemon for Nintendo marketing, retro rep for Sakurai and Rhythm Heaven to round everything off. This would also play into the very suspicious trademark renewals that we saw that included Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven and Wrecking Crew.

The reason Isaac is in all of these scenarios is because he's popular. More so than many other characters that could even possibly be left. He's definitely a ballot pick that is hard to ignore. Coupled with at least 5 more stages we recently found out about and the fact that he's one of the only important 1st party Nintendo franchises left that hasn't been represented properly in Smash and you get a formula for Isaac being in. Rhythm Heaven is similar, the only difference being is that Karate Joe and Chorus Kids just didn't rate as highly on polling, but that series would effectively do the same thing. Add in all of the teasing that Golden Sun has gotten lately, and this is why I like our chances beyond being a fanboy. I'm as realistic as the next person and I would call a spade if there was a spade here. If Isaac were 25th in popularity I'd be really concerned. If he were 3rd party, I'd be really concerned. If he didn't offer much as a series or as a character, I'd be really concerned. But the last thing you have to worry about here is any of those things.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I wanted to consolidate my feeling of where we stand right now and where the roster stands right now heading into the final stretch.

First, being the remaining character count. Considering a lot of opinions I hear, I actually agree with 7-8 left with both uniques + echoes. If you were the most conservative in this guess, you'd say 2 complete uniques (no semiclones) and 3 echoes/semiclones left. I think a happy medium here is that we get 4 uniques and 3-4 echoes as we wind things down here. It's not a liberal estimation in my opinion given one more inevitable large smash direct plus anything we get between now and that point. Having that said... here's my speculations for what's out there.

Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid, Impa, Elma, Octoling, random Pokemon, Dixie, Ken, Shadow/Tails, BWD, Banjo, Rayman, Sora, Shantae, Paper Mario, Monster Hunter, Black Shadow, Rhythm Heaven Character, Black Knight and a Retro rep. I'm not saying this is the hyper-extensive list but I think these are the realistic 'players' at this point consolidating from the vibes I'm getting from both the smash community, leaking and general speculation. That's not to say we don't get Jeanne or Glass Joe but I'm not including them in my scope here.

[x] Skull Kid - As we move along, I see him more and more working as a boss character and less and less as a playable one. I think he would work really well in that capacity because you know that the Zelda series is going to need to have some kind of boss for the Spirits mode. I'm not saying he can't be playable, but his recent explosion feels more like a novel idea that he could be playable than having a long-standing movement behind him.

[x] Impa - I'd love to see her in here playable, but I don't think it's happening. The exit poll data isn't all that high for her? She's also becoming more iconic with her Biggoron sword than being a Sheik-like Sheikah.

[x] Elma - I'm going to predict that she's not playable but she'll be in the game somewhere, perhaps as an AT. This all depends on how Sakurai thinks about keep adding on Xeno characters with every game that comes along. Her popularity isn't a fever pitch either so that doesn't help her too much.

[x] Octoling - I'm in the camp of Octolings not being playable at all which is counter what is pretty common in predictions out there. First, there is the problem of an entirely new 8 different color palette and paint mechanic that already seems complicated with Inklings. Maybe they could figure that barrier out somehow, sure. I just get the feeling that they'll be DLC if anything since most of the popularity of the series went into putting the Inklings in when it was only recently people thought about the possibility of Octolings being echoes.

[x] Rayman, Sora, Crash, Spyro, Monster Hunter - Here's my main belief behind an excess for a lot of these 3rd parties; the more 3rd party reps we get, the less likely I see any of these others getting in. If Banjo and/or Geno is actually in, I just can't see Rayman happening, nor would I really like it if the priority were to get as many 3rd parties in as possible and skip out on new 1st party Nintendo franchises. In addition, we already have Simon and Richter which really pushes that feeling to the brink for me. A lot of these, even Banjo, feel like they'd be relegated to DLC if they were to get in at all and it's usually the perfect place to add them. That's how Sm4sh was treated, getting the super-heavy hitters from 3rd parties in base game with Pacman and Megaman, then using DLC to put in off-the-wall 3rd parties. I consider all of these to be the latter type.

[x] Shantae - I would actually love to play as Shantae as I think she has a really neat concept behind a playable character. I can't help but feel it's unlikely she's playable though. I do think she'll be in the game somewhere; maybe to join Shovel Knight as an AT or as a trophy. Her art style clashes a little bit and a smashified Shantae looks a little weird to me to be honest. It would be enormous if an Indie developer were capable of getting her in.

[x] Black Shadow and Black Knight as echoes - Black Knight is the same as Skull Kid for me, I think he's a boss to represent the FE characters and would be a good fit in that role. F-Zero is in a strange spot but Black Shadow didn't actually do too badly on the exit polls, so while I'm not expecting him, it wouldn't be too surprising if he were an echo of Cpt. Falcon. And I'd be glad to be wrong because F-Zero deserves it.

Now this is where it gets tough because there are a few left and I think this is what makes people so antsy. Most people only expect the number of characters left to conform to the number I speculated above - 4 with 3-4 echoes. Of the characters I listed for uniques, there's Isaac, Geno, random Pokemon, BWD, Paper Mario, Banjo, Rhythm Heaven character and a Retro Rep. So basically 8 to crush down into 4 . Echoes/Semiclones is better with 3-4 being speculated and having about that number left; Dixie, Ken and Shadow/Tails. I think Dixie is a shoo-in using this perspective and she should have been in by now anyway - she also has the popularity to back that up. So does Shadow, he places decently on polls and I think would translate very easily into being an echo which is why I would probably say him over Tails. That's an either/or situation.

Ken is actually an enigma to me and I'm surprised no one else has elaborated on this. Will he be in this game as an echo? Yes... I guess? He actually doesn't have popularity behind him, placing nowhere on exit polling. So no one asked for it, it just comes from two sources; Vergeben and general consensus. To be quite honest, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he weren't in. Yes, he makes all the sense in the world being the original echo and Vergeben is a grade A leaker, but consider that it would also be out of line with all of the characters we've gotten thus far. I could see it happening just like I could see it not happening, which would be hilarious to me. Ken is a nothing character to me in Smash Ultimate.

So, I think Paper Mario barely misses the cut (no pun intended) even though he was a very popular polling character. Call it a gut feeling because I have no basis for why he wouldn't be playable because there are things in his favor which I don't deny.

For the rest of it, I can think of two possible scenarios. Both of which, I think include Isaac.

1. Isaac, Geno, random Pokemon, BWD (possibly Banjo if my Ken theory is right). Basically the rest of the popular characters all in one package plus the inevitable Pokemon we get. BWD scores consistently higher than Paper Mario and Banjo is up there, but like I said before it's possible that it's relegated towards a possible DLC if we do get anything.

2. Isaac, Geno, random Pokemon, random retro Rep (possibly Rhythm Heaven if Ken theory is right). Basically a mixture of long-standing popularity plus the trend of Sakurai and Nintendo picks. Isaac and Geno for the fans, random Pokemon for Nintendo marketing, retro rep for Sakurai and Rhythm Heaven to round everything off. This would also play into the very suspicious trademark renewals that we saw that included Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven and Wrecking Crew.

The reason Isaac is in all of these scenarios is because he's popular. More so than many other characters that could even possibly be left. He's definitely a ballot pick that is hard to ignore. Coupled with at least 5 more stages we recently found out about and the fact that he's one of the only important 1st party Nintendo franchises left that hasn't been represented properly in Smash and you get a formula for Isaac being in. Rhythm Heaven is similar, the only difference being is that Karate Joe and Chorus Kids just didn't rate as highly on polling, but that series would effectively do the same thing. Add in all of the teasing that Golden Sun has gotten lately, and this is why I like our chances beyond being a fanboy. I'm as realistic as the next person and I would call a spade if there was a spade here. If Isaac were 25th in popularity I'd be really concerned. If he were 3rd party, I'd be really concerned. If he didn't offer much as a series or as a character, I'd be really concerned. But the last thing you have to worry about here is any of those things.

Loving the optimism here man, keep it up!

 

[tveye]

I really appreciate how optimistic a lot of you are, but I think I've come to terms with joining the DLC bandwagon. Obviously bringing all the old characters back was priority #1 for this game. So was adding the expected characters (Inkling, Simon, and Isabelle). They threw a bone to the ballot with Ridley and K Rool, but I'm pretty convinced that there's no more big character surprises, at least until after launch. Not to mention that this Spirits mode could have also taken up a lot of development time.

I will say that with the ballot finally opening the eyes of Nintendo developers on which characters the fans really want to see, we can expect some interesting results once DLC season arrives. I'm sure Isaac received plenty of votes, I know I voted for him