Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
DIing puff's uthrow is pretty easy, that's why you avoid grab jabbing or just holding fastfallers so you can be sure to get the rest/combos.
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Stuff About Puff
- Thread starter MaNg0
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BairJew
Smash Journeyman
haha I love you CrushAnything possible that ' s possible if truly that ' s one is warrior
^and alright thanks I just wasn't sure.
crush
Smash Master
When puff grabs you di away. No dthrow rest or u throw rest. Although if warrior is up face against that ' s autocombo will be.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
If you get grabbed by puff and you're a medium weight character like sheik or high percent ffer, don't DI towards nearby platforms from the dthrow cause of easy techchase rest.
crush
Smash Master
But if the platform is away you have to di there anyway. So just di away every time since she gets a rest if you neutral di or di in.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Just no contest every time puff grabs you so she can't rest you.
idea
Smash Master
honestly if puff grabs you in that situation just try to do whatever the puff player will least suspect. it's your only hope.
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I was playing more Puff today, and realized that she trolls really hard. So I'm probably going to make her my secondary.
Platform tech chase rests are too good. I pulled off at least three in friendlies today.
Resting Marth/Sheik seems to be really easy, too. I guess those are my favorite Puff MUs right now (more Marth than anything, to be honest).
Spacies are a pain, but I didn't have to face any today. Falcon is semi-easy, semi-difficult.
/thoughts
Platform tech chase rests are too good. I pulled off at least three in friendlies today.
Resting Marth/Sheik seems to be really easy, too. I guess those are my favorite Puff MUs right now (more Marth than anything, to be honest).
Spacies are a pain, but I didn't have to face any today. Falcon is semi-easy, semi-difficult.
/thoughts
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
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- 1,851
nope, what happened was only in your head. its not possible to do crazyy whack DI.
idea
Smash Master
did you upthrow them into shy guys?
Fortress | Sveet
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Speaking of wack DI, last time I played smash ORLY's falcon did a dair on mundungu's fox on stage and somehow mundungu went almost horizontal. We were all like "WOAH!". I remember subconsciously thinking "ok hes hitting with a weird part of the hitbox so this isn't gonna look normal" so i think it was the nipple spike hitbox + strong DI.
This doesn't really effect throws though, since they always throw the same way...
This doesn't really effect throws though, since they always throw the same way...
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
@Shrouded Yeah, I can't stand good marths though cause of how insane his spacing game is. My favorite MU is probably CF, despite being randomly knee'd and dthrow+knee'd out the wazoo the combos you can perform are too fun. (Especially the uair to uair to uair to uair LOL)
Kaizer
Smash Journeyman
is it just me, or does zelda more easily flip after a dair-ff at 40/50%? Seems like she flips 80% of the time. Maybe the timing is just easier with her?
And Marth is a horrible MU. Soo frustrating when you have to be barely out of his reach so you're able to really punish lag. And I've always championed CF being one of the best matchups for Jiggz, it's insane how much you can combo and put pressure on the Captain.
And Marth is a horrible MU. Soo frustrating when you have to be barely out of his reach so you're able to really punish lag. And I've always championed CF being one of the best matchups for Jiggz, it's insane how much you can combo and put pressure on the Captain.
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I personally find that spacing game between Marth and Puff to be fun (though a tad annoying at times). I certainly like being Puff more than I like being Peach for him. Falcon is really comboable, and that's nice, but that down throw gets me sometimes...
You might just be hitting Zelda's feet more than you hit everyone else's? But I couldn't tell you if the character has anything to do with that. Perhaps her height, and the way her frame is allows for her feet to be hit harder?
You might just be hitting Zelda's feet more than you hit everyone else's? But I couldn't tell you if the character has anything to do with that. Perhaps her height, and the way her frame is allows for her feet to be hit harder?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Crouching ***** Falcon.
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- Mar 14, 2011
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Crouching seems to kind of **** Marth, too, but not as much.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Yeah crouching ***** falcons that grab a lot, that and sheiks. But I got ***** by Prime, who's a really good samus player in WA, when he went falcon. I guess, as a samus, they just naturally don't grab nearly as much lol, I kept getting kneed or RB'd when I expected a (jab) grab. Know your enemy I suppose
idea
Smash Master
falcon is sooo fun...fighting him is like a buffet.
Fortress | Sveet
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You know who crouching doen't ****? Fox, Falco and Peach. Weird...
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Just CC rest Peach's dsmash.
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- 5,493
40secondz
Smash Apprentice
oh man that was awesome.
Keblerelf
Smash Ace
Does the slant on KJ64 have anything to do with it?
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
It's just a normal CC, there's nothing else to it. I discovered this myself because one of my friends mains peach, and I just went for it, lol. Though I was joking originally about this, the raise in interest lead me to mess around with it a little, so here's what I've found out.
The effectiveness of this trick is dependent on both your spacing and percentage. As long as the CC doesn't tumble you, meaning you have to be below ~60%, it's possible. (Going up by increments of 5%, the highest I was able to manage this at was 55% while being hit by only a single tick of the dsmash)
It's notable that Peach's dsmash ticks 5 times - during frames 5, 9, 13, 17, and 21 - and lasts for 2 frames. (Hitboxes are out during frames 5-6, 9-10, 13-14, 17-18, and 21-22 giving you two free frames between ticks). Rest comes out on the first frame, so you can theoretically rest between any of these ticks and have 2 frames to do so. (Which is 4 opportunities during the dsmash, plus 17 frames of attack lag after the last tick for Peach.) I say "theoretically" because it's extremely difficult to do so, even when mashing down+b you have to hope a rest hits asap. I have no evidence that you can always utilize the 2 free frames.
Each tick hits for about 10%, so as long as you can stay below that ~60% threshold so you don't tumble, you can keep up the CC and keep trying to land the rest. This means you should have all 5 opportunities at only ~0-10%, which is your best bet not only because you have more opportunities, but because the last opportunity is by far the easiest to land (with 17 frames minimally of reacting time).
This assumes perfect spacing.
Spacing is something I'm still not sure about. I haven't done any accurate testing on spacing, just some eye-based guess and check, and couldn't find any trends. (I might take the time to test this more accurately on an emulator and visible hitboxes at some point.)
I've looked at Peach's hitboxes for her dsmash and noticed that there are two 'inner' and two 'outer' hitboxes, one on each side of her. I can only assume here, but I think what's important is that you are hit by certain part of the hitbox, and I'm not sure it if matter whether you are hit by one of the outer or inner hitboxes. They all seem to send you inward towards Peach when you CC, but only sometimes does it seems like you have the chance to rest after being hit. The problem with this is how close together the hitboxes are, making this whole thing very difficult to figure out.
Source: Peach's Hitboxes and Frame Data
tl;dr Don't try this **** in tournies.
The effectiveness of this trick is dependent on both your spacing and percentage. As long as the CC doesn't tumble you, meaning you have to be below ~60%, it's possible. (Going up by increments of 5%, the highest I was able to manage this at was 55% while being hit by only a single tick of the dsmash)
It's notable that Peach's dsmash ticks 5 times - during frames 5, 9, 13, 17, and 21 - and lasts for 2 frames. (Hitboxes are out during frames 5-6, 9-10, 13-14, 17-18, and 21-22 giving you two free frames between ticks). Rest comes out on the first frame, so you can theoretically rest between any of these ticks and have 2 frames to do so. (Which is 4 opportunities during the dsmash, plus 17 frames of attack lag after the last tick for Peach.) I say "theoretically" because it's extremely difficult to do so, even when mashing down+b you have to hope a rest hits asap. I have no evidence that you can always utilize the 2 free frames.
Each tick hits for about 10%, so as long as you can stay below that ~60% threshold so you don't tumble, you can keep up the CC and keep trying to land the rest. This means you should have all 5 opportunities at only ~0-10%, which is your best bet not only because you have more opportunities, but because the last opportunity is by far the easiest to land (with 17 frames minimally of reacting time).
This assumes perfect spacing.
Spacing is something I'm still not sure about. I haven't done any accurate testing on spacing, just some eye-based guess and check, and couldn't find any trends. (I might take the time to test this more accurately on an emulator and visible hitboxes at some point.)
I've looked at Peach's hitboxes for her dsmash and noticed that there are two 'inner' and two 'outer' hitboxes, one on each side of her. I can only assume here, but I think what's important is that you are hit by certain part of the hitbox, and I'm not sure it if matter whether you are hit by one of the outer or inner hitboxes. They all seem to send you inward towards Peach when you CC, but only sometimes does it seems like you have the chance to rest after being hit. The problem with this is how close together the hitboxes are, making this whole thing very difficult to figure out.
Source: Peach's Hitboxes and Frame Data
tl;dr Don't try this **** in tournies.
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- 5,493
Wow. Very useful. Another thing I have to look out for from you Puffs when I'm playing the matchup. >__> At least I know it's theoretically possible...
And I always thought her down smash came out on frame 6. Huh. The more you know.
Good job, Krynxe.
And I always thought her down smash came out on frame 6. Huh. The more you know.
Good job, Krynxe.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Lol, thanks. Landing a turnip or two should be more than enough of a safety net if you think your opponent is gonna try this. Either way, it's a pretty dumb idea on the puff's end for trying it. Also, I'm thinking it's possible that a puff player could land this on accident when they're simply trying to land a normal rest. Like, they try to rest you and accidentally CC your dsmash when they input down+b, and end up buffering the rest and landing it during the first frames of opportunity. But hey, any random Rest bull**** is possible so I wouldn't worry about any specifics lol.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
krynxe comin wit da knowledge
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Lol toph. What do you expect when I can only play like once a month at GC? Sucks being down south.
Manatee
Smash Apprentice
Can you guys critique me? I'm really bad at the Fox match up. Anything helpful would be much appreciative....
A Fox from winners:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M2sui-2i_E&feature=channel_video_title
A Fox from losers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiBWODJnTsA&feature=channel_video_title
Bonus video of me against a Sheik after losing to Fox number 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi6Yc7xH3Ms&feature=channel_video_title
A Fox from winners:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M2sui-2i_E&feature=channel_video_title
A Fox from losers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiBWODJnTsA&feature=channel_video_title
Bonus video of me against a Sheik after losing to Fox number 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi6Yc7xH3Ms&feature=channel_video_title
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
watching the first set.
g1 (v falco):
i like how you play in general terms, but a few things:
1) you getup attack when you miss techs too much
2) WAY too much fsmash spam
3) generally you throw out moves sometimes when youd be better off positioning yourself better
4) not enough grabbing.
g2:
you got ****ed really bad here. almost everything that thappened to you was you threw out an aerial when it wasnt safe (safe meaning either far enough away that its risky tor un in and grab or in a situation where you have a clear hit opportunity). you got DD/just wait and grabbed a million times. puff's moves are pretty good but its her mobility that makes her a good character, use that properly instead of hoping your attacks land.
g3:
you did better at not recklessly attacking, but its still a lot of the same. fox knows he can disrespect your neutral game pressure because it's very unreliable (i.e. you get impatient and throw out moves), so you're not scaring him.
you also go for some hard predicts that you dont have a read for (at one point you hard predict a roll toward you after a bair on shield which he had not done yet that set... why assume it will happen?), you should work on that.
in general, work on using spatial presure in the neutral game, not getting impatient and throwing out fsmashes, and technical things like DIing fox's up throw & SDIing his uair will be a tremendous benefit to you. If you had only taken the strong hit of his uair 50% of the time he uaired you, you would have had a chance to win game 3.
Fortress | Sveet
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idea
Smash Master
lol i wanna see if i can learn that now. that'd be the biggest mind**** for any peach main.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Manatee, when playing spacies, mindgames are very important. Not only by creating walls of bairs and moving in on them that makes them feel obligated to approach, but by going for grabs a lot which makes them literally fear being rested. You'll either land tons of bairs because they're scarred to be grabbed, or land lands of grabs because they're scarred to be baired. Plus, every rest you land adds to the saltiness.
Essentially, because puff is so slow while spacies are so quick, you have to use mentality to really keep control the stage and control the game. You weren't being repetitive, which was good, but you have to remember what moves work best in certain matchups. Remember to focus less on landing hits/predictions and more on controlling the match and not being punished. (It is hard to keep a good mentality and stay patient when they're shooting **** at you, but if you avoid their lasers and slowly approach they're get scarred quickly)
Though this is more theory crafting than actual match advice, I only watched the first match against the falco and can really only say to approach falco higher and be a little less groundbourn. And as FoxLisk said grab more.
Essentially, because puff is so slow while spacies are so quick, you have to use mentality to really keep control the stage and control the game. You weren't being repetitive, which was good, but you have to remember what moves work best in certain matchups. Remember to focus less on landing hits/predictions and more on controlling the match and not being punished. (It is hard to keep a good mentality and stay patient when they're shooting **** at you, but if you avoid their lasers and slowly approach they're get scarred quickly)
Though this is more theory crafting than actual match advice, I only watched the first match against the falco and can really only say to approach falco higher and be a little less groundbourn. And as FoxLisk said grab more.
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
SO is it more reliable to CC rest by mashing downB or trying to sdi down tech and then jump into rest?
I've also thought about di'ing my shield into her dsmash and trying to rest oos (but there may be too much shieldstun to be useful) You just have to know when it's safe to jump out of shield. I'd look for the second puff of smoke to start... to be safe
I've also thought about di'ing my shield into her dsmash and trying to rest oos (but there may be too much shieldstun to be useful) You just have to know when it's safe to jump out of shield. I'd look for the second puff of smoke to start... to be safe
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Well an sdi down tech to s.hop rest would probably be more efficient in terms of, if executed properly, landing the rest. Either way it's a gamble, and CCing peach's dsmash is never a good idea.
Republican0fHeaven
Smash Ace
Unless you learn how to get the rest off consistently. Especially if you can get it off after the first 1 or 2 ticks.
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