Stuff About Puff

[-LzR-]

Can't you just read the DI and rest? At least I did so when a Fox had good DI towards left.

 

[Tekk]

Nah that doesn't work when the fox/falco does an actual good DI.
What I do if they DI my upthrow:

DI forward: long SH Uair
DI backward: long SH/FH bair
Only works at low/mid %

On a stage with platforms like yoshi story, I usually go for a waveland on the plateform they're going to land on, and react to their techroll with a quick JC grab upthrow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6TdCSIvgdc @5:43 is a perfect example of that.
I do that instead of reading the tech to rest because I think that at a high playing level, reaction is always better than prediction.

 

[idea]

Wait, so you guys are telling me I should go 100% aggressive 100% of the time?

DONE

50% of the time it works

EVERY TIME

=D

I laugh when up-throw rest gets people. Isn't that, like, '03 metagame? You should be DI'ing all of Jiggs' up-throws all the time.

i swear, sometimes i'll play fox against jiggs and i'll be holding the direction for SO LONG and it still results in no DI whatsoever. it's the weirdest thing, the DI input-reading frames on that throw must be really strange or something.

Can't you just read the DI and rest? At least I did so when a Fox had good DI towards left.

doesn't always work; if they DI'd fully left, presumably they could have jumped out.

it probably does work at some super-specific percentage and like DIing 90% of the way or something.

 

[-LzR-]

Well most of the time if I am able to do it fast enough so they cannot react, unless they expected a grab.

 

[username12345678]

can you jump out and rest get up-attacks on sheilds like with some smash attacks (such as spacies F-smash or samus D-smash) or do they regain mobility before your shield stun is up?

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

You should be able to with some characters. Although I can't remember the last time somebody get-up attacked a Puff.

Maybe that's why...

 

[username12345678]

You should be able to with some characters. Although I can't remember the last time somebody get-up attacked a Puff.

Maybe that's why...

alright thanks.

also when throwing off stage for an edgeguard isn't an option is D-throw usually the best option after grabbing floaties?

 

[FoxLisk]

I dont have any real experience but up, down, and toward the edge should all turn otu beneficial for puff. its up to you and what you think your opponent will do to decide which you think will be most helpful. you arent gonna get anything more than positional advantage so just go with whichver you think you can capitalize on best.

 

[KirbyKaze]

F-throw is pretty good vs floaties, I think. Especially at low percents. It feels like you can put them into block after they land, and then pressure them from there. And if they DJ away, they forfeit a lot of real estate (and you might be able to hit them anyway).

 

[idea]

o hay guys

i went all falco last tournament it was fun. i did worse than usual, but i was expecting that. mostly i was pretty happy with how i played.

not going puff in teams was interesting and went better than i expected. but then i've never been very good at teams anyway. my instincts often tell me to try to kill the whole other team by myself <_< and i guess if that's going to work at all it's going to work better with falco than jiggs.

edit: if anyone cares i can post vids when they go up, but i dunno who would care about critiquing them besides foxlisk (you still main falco, right?)

edit 2: actually now that i think of it, i probably only had teams matches recorded, and i KNOW no one cares about that

 

[FoxLisk]

haha yeah i dont mind critiquing some falco vids if you have them. i wont have anything useful to say about teams though :\

 

[Tekk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szFTYa_ZSLM&feature=feedu

Me vs Makenshi loser bracket
I'm really proud of 3rd match, but if anyone notices some bad things I tend to frequently do, please tell me (and I did play like a ****ing moron at some moments lol).

EDIT: vs porc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1EJxafA3kI&feature=feedu

 

[Mahone]

Sup Mahone, can you critique mah Puff?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1O13iVT2U&feature=related

I know it's a pretty boring set, but try to watch anyways. Both are matchups I had no previous experience in so keep that in mind.
Really need to get better to get into the bracket next time.

Sorry this is so late, i've been pretty busy.... anyways

Game 1

After watching the first 42 seconds it seems that you don't react enough and already have your actions planned. I have this problem too sometimes... for example i will sometimes always uptilt after an upair even if its not a good idea because i am not thinking enough and sorta autopiloting... you seem to do the same thing, just try to react more after you pressure ylinks shield and pick up on his tendencies (i.e. he sits in shield, tries to nair oos right away, etc.) and punish accordingly.

:47- Remember that ylink can move his dair A LOT in the air so its better to just wait for him to land with it, rather than trying to beat it strait up.

I don't think fthrow is that good against ylink unless ur at the edge, try dthrow and upthrow, i use dthrow cuz i like to keep the pressure going, but i think upthrow might be good too as long as u remember he will probably try to dair up high coming down.

Just try to work on your bair spacing, you are usually a little too close and can get naired, go into training mode and see what the max range that you can bair from is and practice trying to keep that spacing in friendlies

One of your biggest problem is that you can't move quickly after a move if you misspace it or are suprised by what happened. Like i said earlier, sometimes you have your next move planned, but one huge thing you need to be able to do is start running or start jumping or something after you mess up. No one really practices this but it's easy to practice in training mode... just do a bunch of aerials and then when you land, immediately start running away or start jumping or aerialing or whatever....
Heres an example because it might not be clear what im talking about ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1O13iVT2U&feature=related#t=2m9s, you try to run away but you walk cuz your timing is off... then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1O13iVT2U&feature=related#t=2m15s, you shield after the nair, the bomb wasn't gonna hit and he was retreating so you should of just started running at him but its probably just a habit (i do this too, i got used to shielding after nairs and would even do it when i didn't have too)....
Then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1O13iVT2U&feature=related#t=2m17s, you space your bair poorly and awkwardly shield and then drop shield afterwards

So first thing you should do is work on the spacing so you won't have to be in that awkward situation where you are right next to your opponent, but even if that happens, try to think about things you can do besides shielding, such as queing a roll backwards or nairing backwards immediately or crouching trying to bait a grab or grabbing yourself, or crouch canceling to rising upair if they try to nair oos, etc......

Also, i just realized... don't strike down to dreamland lol, he obv. wants to camp you if hes picking ylink, i love dreamland as much as the next puff, but you dont wanna give ylink platforms and space to camp you

Ya, go back and watch game 1 and see how many times you shield for no reason/when you don't want to... it's a lot... think about what you should do instead

Also, you need to grab a lot more, the ylink is shielding a lot, just empty hop and grab sometimes instead of aerialing

Game 2

I know you won, but i think its interesting that you picked pokemon stadium.. i think ylink's best stages are like 1.Kongo 2.Dreamland 3.Stadium, so i don't know why you would strike to dreamland and cp stadium... it worked, but just try out the other stages in friendlies if you can and see if you do better, i would personaly counterpick fd or fod (or brinstar, but just cuz i love that stage)

You started fixing some stuff i was talking about above, like dthrowing, and jabbing after you misspace instead of just shielding so thats good, just work on it more for next time so game 1 goes smoother

wtf is going on, why is he bombing himself lol

ya ur spacing is just too close for your bairs, you really need to practice max range bairs, and don't try to cross him up with bairs so much

Your upair spacing is also too close, practice it in training mode (if you have no one to practice with... put a human player on a platform and see how low you can be while still hitting them), because based on these videos you think its like the top of her head, but really its above it, like the top of the crown or a little above it

Game 3

Di peaches throws behind her

don't be so timid about resting her, she has a bad punish, go for tech chase rests and uptilt rests rather than being safe

Really not much to say here, you are making some of the same mistakes as game 1 and 2 but you are playing pretty good... i woudl say the main issue is that (like you told me) you don't have peach experience, you just need to get a feel for her fair spacing and what she can nair out of and stuff like that... i would recommend just watching a lot of peach puff and practicing it, and you'll beat that guy for sure

 

[Mahone]

http://www.twitch.tv/ssbm_oskar/b/294250459?id=294250459

Game 2 and 3.

Footage of my Puff from a small local tournament last week. Advice very much appreciated! I've messed around with Puff in friendlies for some time now, but only recently started using her for srs. As such there's probably a lot of stuff to improve on, but hey, gotta start somewhere, right?

Thank you in advance!

Game 2

Your bair spacing is really good but you need to work on using upair when hes above you instead of just trying to get horizontal and bair... the upair will lead to rest or like 10 more upairs, whereas the bair will just be a single hit... on top of the fact that bair is harder to space when they are above you

Gotta work on sding foxes upair, if ur at like 70 pecent and over try sding up... i have like a 90% sucess rate sding up so that might help, im not positive on what percent i start using it though... its just based on feel fore me, you might wanna just practice with a friend for a while

The fox you are playing keeps trying to hit or grab you without overshooting... if you had wavedashed back you could have gotten a lot of free grabs

So, you win this game, but there is still one big problem.

Your spacing is actually really good and you never really made any huge mistakes, but you still are playing incorrectly because your whole game revolves around getting single hits. You definitely need to get spaced bairs, but what is happening in your games is that you outspace your opponent and get like 3 bairs for each one of the grabs he gets, but when he gets a grab he gets like upthrow upair and then pressure, and he kills you early with upthrow upair cuz you can't smash di. You need to get early kills on fox otherwise you will most likely lose since fox can rack up damage and kill you quickly. This basically means you need to be going for a lot more grabs and upairs and gimps. I think you don't go out there enough to edgeguard, jiggs onstage edgeguards aren't as good as her offstage edgeguards most of the time, so try working on that in friendlies.

Game 3

You did really well this game, nothing to say, i think your style does really well on small stages and you also fixed some of the things i mentioned above


If you give me a game where you lose harder mabye i can help more lol, you did really well overall

 

[Mahone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJMPbgeqMns&feature=feedu

Matches from NML18, a tournament in Lille which I won.
I think I played much better the 2nd match..
Btw, these matches are prior to your advice, Mahone and Idea, so my pound game sucks pretty bad in them lol.

The rest (lulz) is coming later

Alright game 1..... WOAH WOAH WOAH... hold on.... are you playing the guy who invented the doraki wall jump.... GGS man, i can't critique this

 

[idea]

tekk, you're jumping too often...you don't ALWAYS have to be doing an aerial, y'know? i'm especially wary of this kind of thing 'cause i do it a lot too. it's more...fun. but sometimes it's better to just wait a second and wavedash back. interrupt the flow a bit. also you might want to try wavedashing more often for movement in general, getting in the habit of it makes it easier to get grabs and makes you overall faster and more unpredictable. and for these matches specifically, doraki was getting very few grabs and he missed the upair i think several times, so moving around in shield would have been a good choice.

these are good matches, though...i feel like i can only give you general advice because you have a good handle on how to play jiggs and you aren't making any like, big mistakes.

mainly you're just being a little too antsy. and...you could be killing him more efficiently.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Does anyone have any advice on using pound ? I can't find any clever way to use it, and anytime I do it feels random.

Pound sucks, I'd only use it if I was sure it hits. I always get punished because of the massive ending lag

 

[Kaizer]

Tekk, i wanna play you at Melee Grande!

 

[Tekk]

Sure thing man, MG is an event I can't miss.
Yeah Idea I never really thought of just staying on the ground except for dashdancing, I will try to mix up more.

@Mahone:

 

[-LzR-]

@Mahone:
Ty for a good critique, it was helpful.
Actually that was the first time I actually even saw a YL. I am a Brawler and this was like my 3rd Melee tourney and I have no idea what YL was lol.
He said he bombed himself to get into high enough % to avoid rest after an utilt so I guess that's reasonable. That's why I didn't know the stages either =/
He is a Finnish top player AFAIK so I don't think I can beat him just yet, but thanks.
I always thought my spacing was great... Well, the more you know...
And Brinstar wasn't even legal, it's never legal in Finland =/
There were like 6 legal stages IIRC.

But this will help a lot ty :D

EDIT: If you are still in the mood, I have a set where I get owned by a Falco player. He is actually a really good player, but I just don't understand Falco.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7unsdc9yYw&feature=channel_video_title

 

[idea]

Sure thing man, MG is an event I can't miss.
Yeah Idea I never really thought of just staying on the ground except for dashdancing, I will try to mix up more.

it can be useful, but it's still not amazing against fox, grounded puff is better against characters like marth and sheik. largely because of crouch, but also because of shield (shield vs. marth, crouch vs. sheik). both those characters tend to be hesitant to grab you...because of crouch. marth less so because he actually CAN grab you while crouching, it's just that if he misspaces the weird grab hitbox he will probably die. whereas with sheik there is no such hitbox so no, lieutenant...your sheik is already dead.

and wavedashing is her fastest movement option as far as i can tell. not to mention it's fun.

 

[Mahone]

@ lzr, no problem man... I thought thats why he was bombing himself, its kind of an interesting idea, but he was still at rest percents i think, so idk... I wouldn't mind critiquing but it actually takes a while for me so idk when itll get done

@tekk do u still want me to look at porc and that other guy? Like i said above, i dont mind, but it might take some time

 

[Tekk]

Yes please, do it whenever you're in the mood, it's always helpful.
Gonna train and improve SO MUCH for Melee Grande...

 

[ShroudedOne]

This thread is really cool. I think I'm going to start playing Puff again, just to have her critiqued. I have old vids, but they aren't that good...

 

[Mahone]

Yayyyy.... Got tired of how ******** the falco boards huh... I dont blame you

Ya sure tekk, ill do it whenever i can

 

[Tekk]

Get some stuff recorded Shrouded! I'll be happy to help you improve.

 

[Oskar]

@Mahone, didn't see your response until today. Thanks for the comments, I appreciate it. I'll get to work on the stuff you mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sdBgFn7tjU&feature=related (from game 2 and onwards)

Uh, well, here's another set from the same tourney (since you asked for one I lost). I feel sorta lost in this matchup so if I could get a few pointers that'd be great. If anyone else wants to chime in please feel free to do so too.

Also, a question about DI'ing Marths throws: I played a bunch of matches against a Marth player not too long ago, and there were a few times where I could've sworn I DI'ed the throw away and it still linked to a tipper Fsmash, resulting in some dumb, early deaths. What exactly is the correct way to DI here? And is there some sort of universal DI, that works regardless of whether he F,B og Dthrows?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, DI. This is always a trickier subject regarding throws like Falcon's and Marth's. Generally, though, DI'ing in will save you from a tipper at low percents, and DI'ing away will save you from a combo. This is something that I *think* you have to mix up constantly, keep the Marth guessing and stuff. You definitely don't want to DI the same way each time.

One of the other Puffs probably has better advice concerning that, but that's the gist. To avoid tippers at lower percents, go in. At higher, away is a better bet.

 

[Mahone]

@Mahone, didn't see your response until today. Thanks for the comments, I appreciate it. I'll get to work on the stuff you mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sdBgFn7tjU&feature=related (from game 2 and onwards)

Uh, well, here's another set from the same tourney (since you asked for one I lost). I feel sorta lost in this matchup so if I could get a few pointers that'd be great. If anyone else wants to chime in please feel free to do so too.

Also, a question about DI'ing Marths throws: I played a bunch of matches against a Marth player not too long ago, and there were a few times where I could've sworn I DI'ed the throw away and it still linked to a tipper Fsmash, resulting in some dumb, early deaths. What exactly is the correct way to DI here? And is there some sort of universal DI, that works regardless of whether he F,B og Dthrows?

Ya ill take a look

Actually ding away isn't the correct di, because as you have seen, it can lead to tipper fsmash... you want to di marth's throw down.... at high percent it gets trickier and i beileve the mixup is down and down and away.... so if i were you i would just start by always ding DOWN

 

[idea]

DOWN and away. not just away. that was the problem.

if you're onstage, it lets you tech. if you're offstage, it lets you get below the edge to safety.

i am pretty sure that at some specific percents marth can fthrow to wavefsmash tipper you and it'll actually combo. there are also some situations where it's arguably better to DI up and away, and other times when you want to DI in to not get tippered.

but in short, it's weird, so DI down and away by default.

or you could do the marth ditto. it's pretty fun...

 

[crush]

MAHONE

Y U NO ACCEPT VIDEO RESPONSE?

10capss

 

[Mahone]

MY B, i don't really use youtube much except for when im making ****ty combo videos.... i'll accept if you want

 

[crush]

MY B, i don't really use youtube much except for when im making ****ty combo videos.... i'll accept if you want

it would be cool if you did ya

 

[FoxLisk]

Yayyyy.... Got tired of how ******** the falco boards huh... I dont blame you

Ya sure tekk, ill do it whenever i can

Nothing has ever before been so retared as the falco boards this week

 

[-LzR-]

@Mahone, no hurry at all.

 

[King Funk]

I wish Melee boards in general had less derpers/******* and more people like KirbyKaze.

 

[Mahone]

it would be cool if you did ya

Ya i already did, lemme know if it worked

Nothing has ever before been so retared as the falco boards this week

I think the week were mogwai locked it was pretty bad lol

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yeah, Falco boards are like...just egos, everywhere. That's why I like the Puff boards. Just chill.

 

[FoxLisk]

Ya i already did, lemme know if it worked



I think the week were mogwai locked it was pretty bad lol

haha true i was offline that week though i think so i only saw the aftermath

 

[Binx]

Hey guys how does Ice Climbers beat jigglypuff, is there any special distances or guessing games that are really unfavorable for her in the matchup? I'm trying to become the best in Oregon and this is basically the only thing holding me back right now, I'm sure I would figure out the matchup eventually by watching vids and analyzing my own play but would be helpful to get good advice.