Strategy against cowards

[Gaaraofthesand1337]

Whenever I face my regular friends, we're pretty much even. We enjoy the heat of battle. But this one guy always just runs away, and when I go after him, our attacks clash and then he hits me or he spams some little attack (like pit's over b or fox's kicks or mr g&w's neutral a) and attacks after that. But he never pursues. I guess he knows that I am going to charge at him one way or another, front, back, over, and starts spamming before I move. When I do get him and he survives, he grabs the edge and gets back on. I need to work on edge-guarding (Ike is my main now). Also, any tips for edge-guarding w/ Ike, but mostly how to beat the runner? Thanks, I mean, I like exciting battles of back and forth and combo-ing, not running and cheap shots.

 

[metroid1117]

It depends on what he is doing; if he is attacking you as soon as you get close, just run up to him with your shield and then grab him during the lag. If he's running away, then just run past him and grab. If he's rolling behind you, charge up a DSmash and time it so that the second hit gets him. If it's projectiles... well, Ike is screwed from my experience (which isn't much).

 

[Shai Hulud]

Here's a strategy for you. Stop being a scrub.

 

[Gaaraofthesand1337]

Come on man. What the hell? Why would you waste your time and mine insulting me? I'll never understand...I just asked for advice

 

[naevorc]

Uhh.. punish him. When he does a jab just shield grab. W/e. :\

 

[Peach Tree]

Use mind games, charge at him and jump back as he strieks just punish him. Ike has a far reach you should be fine also you can use ike's side b.

 

[Darkslash]

Here's a strategy for you. Stop being a scrub.

http://kevinchiu.org/emote/facepalm.jpg

 

[goodkid]

Well first of all, their are no cowards or cheap moves in Smash. There are only different playstyles and I guess your friend plays a turtle/campy playstyle. What you have to do is to reverse his style. You have to be as campy as he is until he lets up.

 

[Gaaraofthesand1337]

I've tried but the spam of g&w's neutral a, for example, keeps going. I am normally a pretty decent player, but i'm not used to this kind of randomness. I'm ready for awesome marths, accurate pits, combo-fun, meta-knights, etc. A random g&w and strange, annoying moves which i di out of but then get hit... Oh well, I just thought that there was a certain strategy to play against this kind of fighting (I know there is in chess anyway...). If there isn't, just say so, and don't insult me like that guy did, thanks.


"There are only different playstyles and I guess your friend plays a turtle/campy playstyle. What you have to do is to reverse his style. You have to be as campy as he is until he lets up."

This sounds good, i'll try it, thanks!

"Ike has a far reach you should be fine also you can use ike's side b."

This has helped a little, so i must get better at it, thanks as well

 

[BananaNut]

Here's a strategy for you. Stop being a scrub.

I'd just like to point out that it is not ALWAYS the casuals that start the flam wars.

Well, I'd recommend outrunning him, but since you're Ike that's not really an option, but since you ARE Ike, try using his over-B as an approach, or jump in the air and use the super armor frames in his regular B to get a hit on him.

 

[Gaaraofthesand1337]

I'd just like to point out that it is not ALWAYS the casuals that start the flam wars.

Well, I'd recommend outrunning him, but since you're Ike that's not really an option, but since you ARE Ike, try using his over-B as an approach, or jump in the air and use the super armor frames in his regular B to get a hit on him.

I never understood flame wars at all... Just, why? Life's too short, you know? eh

But, yeah I just read about the SAF recently and I think it will help as well. Thanks for the imput

 

[Razorsaw]

I'd just like to point out that it is not ALWAYS the casuals that start the flam wars.

Quite the opposite I keep seeing.

 

[Koga]

Try this:

Do a dashing sheild up next to him, as soon as you stop sliding keep holding sheild but tilt the c-stick down; you will then do a spot dodge, as soon as the spot dodge animation starts let go of shield and then do a downsmash with the c-stick.

its safe and fast, somehow spot dodges shave some of the startup lag off of most moves.

if you don't want to down smash just yet to preserve its knockback for the kill then you can allways do a neutral a combo into a side b or a nair or bair

 

[Your Therapist]

When facing a campy opponent, I personally rely on projectiles and dairs. I advance a bit, back up once I get close, and then short hop + dair to throw him off. After that I can usually get on the offensive.

If you are facing a char who has good priority you might want to rely more on shield-grabbing. Just make sure that you don't get grabbed first!

 

[Noypi_GjD]

As a hit and run type of player, I'm insulted being called a coward >.> Different characters require a different approach and if running away is a viable strategy why not us it to win.

Anyways, just choose a fast character with a high amount of priority on their attacks. Ike from what I've played is a campy and punishing character, its kind of ironic that an Ike player is complaining about camping and cheap shots =D.

 

[megamanexev3]

Mind games would be a start, and punishing his techs. I don't play Ike much, but he doesn't have any projectiles, so that doesn't work. Try arial attacks possibly.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Mind games would be a start. Try arial attacks possibly.

lolz most general advice EVER.

 

[shadydentist]

Against a campy opponent, your best bet is to be patient and approach carefully. Don't just rush in and attack.

And avoid stages where he can run away. Like hyrule temple.

 

[Wingless Abaddon]

If you're apt to run in and attack with Ike, my suggestion would be to catch him off guard. Run in and try your down B, hope for a connect. After a while, he'll stop expecting you to attack and start expecting a counter. That's when you mix it up and throw something else in there. A dash attack or a smash. Also, Ike has an amazing neutral A. Use that to your advantage.

On a final note, have you ever thought of running in and just grabbing him? Grab him and throw him in a direction where you can quickly smash/attack him. Eventually you'll force him to change his tactics. Simply by changing your own.

 

[Squadallah]

Well you could always spam projectiles like arrows, bombs, and boomerangs. Arrows do nice damage.

Oh wait... you're Ike and you have ZERO projectiles. Sucks for you dude.

 

[A New England Winter]

Well you could always spam projectiles like arrows, bombs, and boomerangs. Arrows do nice damage.

Oh wait... you're Ike and you have ZERO projectiles. Sucks for you dude.

You fail.


Now anyways, I hate fighting Hit-n-Run people, but my advice would be to approch with ForwardB, but stop short of him. Follow up with an UpA Tilt or a grab. Will post more later.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I was actually being helpful. If you have the mindset that your opponent is a "coward" and you refuse to adopt these "cowardly" tactics then you are a scrub and you are going to lose. Do whatever it takes to win. If that means being a "coward" then be a "coward." Your opponent has the advantage over you because he doesn't have a mental block against using tactics considered cheap, gay, cowardly, etc.

You may need to change your character for certain matchups, as well.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

True, but he's playing a fighting game, not a running and camping game.

 

[shadydentist]

True, but he's playing a fighting game, not a running and camping game.

Turtling is a legitimate strategy.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

I walked into that one.

 

[BigRick]

Whenever I face my regular friends, we're pretty much even. We enjoy the heat of battle. But this one guy always just runs away, and when I go after him, our attacks clash and then he hits me or he spams some little attack (like pit's over b or fox's kicks or mr g&w's neutral a) and attacks after that. But he never pursues. I guess he knows that I am going to charge at him one way or another, front, back, over, and starts spamming before I move. When I do get him and he survives, he grabs the edge and gets back on. I need to work on edge-guarding (Ike is my main now). Also, any tips for edge-guarding w/ Ike, but mostly how to beat the runner? Thanks, I mean, I like exciting battles of back and forth and combo-ing, not running and cheap shots.

This guy is better than you at this game.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

This guy is better than you at this game.

Or is he? What if he was put on a smaller stage, like Yoshi's Island or Battlefield?

Suddenly his running and stalling tactics don't really matter so much!

 

[MeloDeath]

campy playing is just very successfull in brawl. Shield are too good for one, and the lack of decent cancellation techs makes up for a tough nut to crack. Luckily Ike is almost impossible to shieldgrab if he spaces correctly. (The shield hit creates a gap between you and you campy ***** opponent).
For approaches: try this ( i dont know if this works or not) Do the RAR Bair ( running animation, tap opposite way, short hop back air) and if you ahve enough height, DI back to avoid punishment. THen keep pressure on him with the Side B or a move that contrasts the aerial's speed. THe way to break a camper is pick up or slow down the pace of the game to you advantage.

 

[lonelytraveler8]

Does Ike have any fast aerials? Use those. Or his foward-b. Or a dashing shield-grab. Or even a counter if he's being predictable enough (and you don't get predictable with it). Basically everything that's been said. I liked the super-armor suggestion.

Trying walking slowly towards him and see what happens. If he dashes at you, shield grab. If he rolls, punish him brutally. If he stands still, then just smack him with your superior range. Mind games are key for campers, imo.

Random question. Why is Ike so violent? His attacks are just so angry lol

 

[MeloDeath]

Does Ike have any fast aerials? Use those. Or his foward-b. Or a dashing shield-grab. Or even a counter if he's being predictable enough (and you don't get predictable with it). Basically everything that's been said. I liked the super-armor suggestion.

Trying walking slowly towards him and see what happens. If he dashes at you, shield grab. If he rolls, punish him brutally. If he stands still, then just smack him with your superior range. Mind games are key for campers, imo.

Random question. Why is Ike so violent? His attacks are just so angry lol

Extraordinay amounts of testosterone and anabolic steroids ^^
Some alcohol too i guess, based on his fighting style XD

 

[Wiseguy]

Whenever I face my regular friends, we're pretty much even. We enjoy the heat of battle. But this one guy always just runs away, and when I go after him, our attacks clash and then he hits me or he spams some little attack (like pit's over b or fox's kicks or mr g&w's neutral a) and attacks after that. But he never pursues. I guess he knows that I am going to charge at him one way or another, front, back, over, and starts spamming before I move. When I do get him and he survives, he grabs the edge and gets back on. I need to work on edge-guarding (Ike is my main now). Also, any tips for edge-guarding w/ Ike, but mostly how to beat the runner? Thanks, I mean, I like exciting battles of back and forth and combo-ing, not running and cheap shots.

Ah, Chicken People: the rain cloud on the sunny day that is a fighting game. There is no quick fix that will solve this, but in my experience you have a couple options:

1) Choose a close range character, and make his life miserabale as best you can. Never let up in your attacks, and don't give him any breathing room. Force him to fight back. This works pretty well in small stages where there isn't anywhere to run.

2) Become a Chicken Person yourself. Can't beat 'em? Join 'em! Characters with spammable projectiles work pretty well, I'd suggest Pit. Sheild grabbing is your friend when playing a defensive game. Prepare for a LOOOONNNNGG match as you pick away at each other while trying to keep your distance and constantly retreating.

In my (limited) experience, its best to know both offensive and defensive strategies and know how to switch on the fly.

 

[FartKnocker]

First of all, your friend is using a legitimate strategy. If he was doing something you couldn't easily do (i.e. pick the same/a faster/a projectile-using character), THEN it would be cowardly or cheesey.

I went to a soul calibur tournament a year or two ago and I fought this Maxi player. He was tearing people up and I went against him with my boy Voldo. He left me very few openings but I was able to eek out a victory from him. I was apologetic after I won because I had resorted to basic, low-damage combos (if you've fought Voldo you know his mix-up is sickeningly irritating) and dragged the fight out. His (the Maxi player's) reply? "There is no such thing as cheese."

Why hold back if your opponents won't always grant you the same courtesy? If he's playing a hit-and-run game, try using a different character that can counter his style. Choose Samus/Link/Pit and punish him with projectile spam when he tries to flee. Picking a jack-of-all-trades or simply a more balanced character as your 2nd will give you options since Ike is limited to slow, non-projectile moves. If you insist on playing Ike, as someone else suggested you can mirror his strategy and turtle. Only swing with good-recovery moves or sweeping light attacks (I don't know Ike that well but Fair seemed pretty safe) when you get close so he can't spot openings so easily.

"There is no such thing as cheese." As long as both players have access to the same characters and moves, there will always be a way to counter your opponent, even if you're forced to mirror his playstyle. Always a way.

There's always a way but never any cheese. Sucks for the mice in the maze but great for us smashers

 

[Miller]

Use mind games, charge at him and jump back as he strieks just punish him. Ike has a far reach you should be fine also you can use ike's side b.

/Facepalm

Pits Arrows > Quick Draw

I'm going to generalize this around Pit, even though theres other characters.

When playing Ike against Pit, your put into a tough corner, so choose a stage thats small, like battlefield, so its harder for him to arrow spam, and even harder to run away, which means less over b spamming. And let him >B spam as much as he wants, space your movement just so its out of range, then your free to do pretty much whatever. Ftilt can work, and even Fsmash is a great choice, since of the lag time when he cancels out his >B. Save Fsmash for later though, as it can kill Pit at like 60%.

 

[ComradeSAL]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned at all is patience. Most likely what is happening is that you are getting hit by 1 or 2 projectiles and then becoming frustrated. The key here is patience. Don't rush in. Slowly advance on him, dodging projectiles along the way, and when he moves to run away to the other side of the map there should be some sort of window for you to hit him.

Also keep in mind that you are going to have to deal with this strategy a lot if you decide to stick with Ike. Ike is a very powerful character, but the tradeoff is that he's slow and somewhat easy to camp. Every character has strengths and weaknesses, and one of Ike's weaknesses is that he is susceptible to "cowards."

 

[Vijin]

Ok, seriously. If he's rolling around and doing the same stuff over and over, just predict it. The reason you're losing to this guy is because your habits are getting you killed.
Let's say you are standing next to each other, you're on his right side. But you are also facing AWAY from each other. . Your first instinct is probably gonna be to roll to the right for spacing and to face him. But if you think about it, his instinct is probably the same exact thing, except he's gonna roll LEFT. Catch him out of that roll. Once you realize that you can easily catch him out of his roll, it's GG for him, because he's going to keep doing the same technique, regardless of whether you're beating him or not.

If you're Ike, just catch him out of his roll with your side B. Punish him for making those mistakes.

 

[S2]

I feel your pain Gaara, but what's happening right now is he's winning a mindgame war against you.

Its hard to fight against someone using hit and run tactics, especially with Ike (due to his lack of speed and the fact that he has no projectiles to for an opponent to come ot you).

If your opponent is doing the same thing over and over, start expecting that and try to counter it. You might be able to fake an approach or not fully approach and then catch him offguard. If he whiffs a counter to your approach, he might leave himself open.

That was all very vague and open ended, so here's some anti-Pit stuff.

The dashing sheild grab is your best friend against spammers. It has excellent grab range, so its good for running up to an opponent and either grabbing them, or blocking there attack and then countering (since you can attack out of a shield).

If Pit is spamming his arrows, chances are you will get hit by a couple, but keep advancing on him. Keep in mind that if Pit arrows with an opponent too close, its possible to hit him with him with a longer range attack. But keep in mind if your too close to Pit, he can arrow into his neutral combo very very fast.


The game's still new so its hard to give any definite strats yet. We're all still learning it. Try to outsmart your opponent. Learning to play smart and developing mindgames will go a very long way. Technical skill is necessary, but playing smart will bring the most out of your technical ability.

 

[thefindingmoon]

honestly i would say that so far there is no good strategy to go up against pit because you cannot stay far away or you will get arrowed to death you cannot spike becuase he can stay in the air for like ever and up close he can deflect your move and then get you cuaght in a move that does like 30-45 % before you can escape. i use pkmon trainer and he does ok but i cannot get past the "tactic" either my friend who plays as pit uses this "tactic" very well and right now he is pretty much unbeatable but i think we will eventually figure something out tell me if you do,,,

tfmoon/TM (training mode)

 

[Skazryk]

You could always sh and then side b him, then when he in the air get him with a forward aerial.

 

[Alric]

My thoughts would be to pick a flat and/or small stage(my preference is final destination) and use a combination of short hops, air dodges, dodge rolls, and those down dodges out of shields to approach him. I haven't thought of what to do if he tries to run away when you start getting near him but if he stays then there's two things you can do.

1. If he starts up the spamming attacks when you get close then try dashing then short hopping into a counter. If timed right that should get him.

2. If he waits for you to get their before he attacks then play mindgames with him till he makes a mistake. An example would be to run straight at him and shield at the last second. If he dodge rolls, grab him. If he attacks, grab him or roll away and do something else.

 

[Dogysamich]

Here's a strategy for you. Stop being a scrub.

Come on man. What the hell? Why would you waste your time and mine insulting me? I'll never understand...I just asked for advice

I was actually being helpful. If you have the mindset that your opponent is a "coward" and you refuse to adopt these "cowardly" tactics then you are a scrub and you are going to lose. Do whatever it takes to win. If that means being a "coward" then be a "coward." Your opponent has the advantage over you because he doesn't have a mental block against using tactics considered cheap, gay, cowardly, etc.

You may need to change your character for certain matchups, as well.

Hate to tell you, but he's right.

__

But to answer your question.

If you're playing a character that is slower than their characters, you have no choice but to learn how to cut them off and keep them close. That's part of the strategy of them being faster.

If you cant do that, pick up a faster character or one with a projectile.

I prefer one with a projectile.