STOP this Smash Bros Elitism!

[Golem the Stern Father]

@ Tyfighter


I'm confused. Are you in favor of or against BrawlCentral? Net sacrasm is hard for me to detect, I excel in the tangible kind.

Ah, sarcasm is hard to detect. I'm just using Brawlcentral as a joke, not favoring it.
Oh and congrats on making your oh so desired 100th post.

 

[Finch]

Seriously, most of these dumb arguments seem to be started by casuals flaming "tourny***s." We don't have an insulting name for you, except maybe scrub-which is usually what you are.

But seriously if you don't like elitism either A. Stop telling us the way we play is wrong/not fun/excluding or B. Don't be on forums created by and for "elitist" players

We don't want to play with items in tournaments, but no pro is ever going to tell you that you have to play without them at home, and no one is ever going to keep you from going to a tournament and playing with good players. Play how you want, and we'll do the same.

 

[darkatma]

I strongly disagree with this statement. I play melee (and soon brawl) competitively because it's fun to be competitive, it's fun to improve. There is no reason to believe that playing competitively isn't fun. If it wasn't fun, most people wouldn't do it.

what i meant was having fun for the sake of fun
I completely agree with you! I wouldn't play competitive if it wasn't fun. I guess I didn't clarify enough, the topic creator thinks elitism makes the game not fun, because we obsess over finite details etc. I think it makes the game deeper and more meaningful.

 

[The Executive]

Ah, sarcasm is hard to detect. I'm just using Brawlcentral as a joke, not favoring it.
Oh and congrats on making your oh so desired 100th post.

Yeah, I figured I needed at least 100 posts to cover up the fact that I had an account for three years and did nothing with it because I forgot it existed and was highly PO'd at SmashBoards for rejecting my attempts to register.

I'm also proud that I helped somewhere between eight and twelve people realize the subtle differences between nubs and knobs.

 

[The Executive]

pussie B-ITCHES i could beat f-uck outta a-ll you n-iggaz jew c-untz

Surely, you jest, foul knave.

 

[The Mark]

Wow what a crappy thread.

 

[The Executive]

Well, you're in a box! *awkward silence* DON'T JUDGE ME!

 

[Petewilcutyou]

If you like ssb, Play it, and be done with it. To all the pros that cap on the noobs: If your so good why don't you just beat the living hell outta the noob and prove your that good not to play them again? If you love the game, you'll play vs anyone of any skill level. It just shows how arrogant some people can be. If you really love the **** outta the series like I do, I'd just play the game, and have fun. end of story. and for the quitters of the game, If you quit it shows that you let the assjack "pros" know that they won. If you want to get better, Get better then. Prove to the "pros" you got game. its not too hard to improve...

 

[OddCrow]

Smashboards is (to say quite bluntly) pretty much an elitist community.(don't flame you know it's true) TONS of other Smash communities exist with a more casual attitude. If you REALLY don't like what takes place here, then pack up and find a new forum. I'm sure a Pro will play a beginner. But that situation is sooo rare. I mean, if you are REALLY good chances are your friends/crew is good to AKA the people you always play with. I'm sure if someone's 7-yr old cousin was visiting the pro wouldn't be too stuck up to play with him. Consider both sides before posting dude.

Just please....I'm sick of the people who joined 1 or 2 months ago and get offended by the environment here. Go somewhere else or get over it.

 

[Petewilcutyou]

Yay, more controversies.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

My friend told me today "There is so much elitists-pricks on Smashboards now"(U think he thinks anyone who likes Melee more than Brawl[and if that is the case, sign me up]), and I was expecting him to have made this thread

Wavedahsing was mentioned a while back, but I don't understand why everyone is mad about it being gone. As a Luigi main, of course I can do it, but I was expecting the glitch to be gone in Brawl, and behold. What everyone SHOULD be pissed about is L-Canceling being absent.

 

[OddCrow]

No L-canceling and very specific lag times are good. Better, stronger attacks now have SOME drawbacks. Balance ftw. (It might give some characters a disadvantage, but at the same time that might just change their play style)

 

[Ichida]

What is pissing me off is the fact that just because some of us haven't actually played it, our opinions mean jack ****. I've watched a ****load of comprehensive technique and moveset videos as well as an amount of tournament footage videos I lost count of long ago, followed all the hype, and have been coming here to study up on advanced fighting techniques. At least I'm making a freaking effort, you complacent pricks.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

No L-canceling and very specific lag times are good. Better, stronger attacks now have SOME drawbacks. Balance ftw. (It might give some characters a disadvantage, but at the same time that might just change their play style)

Yes, Brawl is the most balanced fighting game in the world.[/sarcasm]

 

[OddCrow]

I know it's not completely balanced but I like little things that level the playing field. I never said it was the most balanced game ever...

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I know, gence the sarcastic remark.

 

[P-X R4ZR]

"Elitist" is such an annoying word...

What do you consider elitism? Did Gimpyfish or Mew2King not want to play with you? You do know that 90% of the "elitists" on this board are casual players that think they're hot ****, right? Competitive players never start ****, it's always the BKs(bad kids) that think they're so much better than everyone else that they come on here and insult everyone's intelligence.

Like another poster said before me, if you are being snubbed by anyone, it's probably just bad kids.

GJ on the troll topic BTW.

 

[Diggerzz]

yeah the pros' arrogance often is really annyoing i agree with the creator of this topic.

 

[MookieRah]

yeah the pros' arrogance often is really annyoing i agree with the creator of this topic.

It's not so much arrogance as much as it is simply perceived to be as such. A lot of the time it comes down to the fact that casual players don't like to be told that competitive players, as a whole, are far more skilled at the game. Seriously though, what else do you expect from people that play the game competitively in the first place? I don't see why people get so upset over it, especially due to the fact that the people complaining typically don't have any plans on being a part of the competitive scene. It's not like we go around telling you guys how you should play with your friends.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

My friend told me today "There is so much elitists-pricks on Smashboards now"(U think he thinks anyone who likes Melee more than Brawl[and if that is the case, sign me up]), and I was expecting him to have made this thread

Wavedahsing was mentioned a while back, but I don't understand why everyone is mad about it being gone. As a Luigi main, of course I can do it, but I was expecting the glitch to be gone in Brawl, and behold. What everyone SHOULD be pissed about is L-Canceling being absent.

Well, the major reason that we're mad about wavedashing being gone is that it adds incredible depth to SSBM, and it's also hella fun.

Also, wavedashing is not a glitch.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Well, the major reason that we're mad about wavedashing being gone is that it adds incredible depth to SSBM, and it's also hella fun.

Also, wavedashing is not a glitch.

Exploitation, whatever. And yes, I know all about the joys of wavedashing (don't use it to move everywhere, but I use it often), and it is hella fun (lookit Luigi slide...right of the edge! OH NO! REVCOVERRECOVERRECOVER..dammit...), I guess I was just preparing myself for the worst possibility.

 

[Conformal_Invariance]

It's not so much arrogance as much as it is simply perceived to be as such. A lot of the time it comes down to the fact that casual players don't like to be told that competitive players, as a whole, are far more skilled at the game. Seriously though, what else do you expect from people that play the game competitively in the first place? I don't see why people get so upset over it, especially due to the fact that the people complaining typically don't have any plans on being a part of the competitive scene. It's not like we go around telling you guys how you should play with your friends.

Jumping the gun, here.

The casual players not liking to be told that there are people better than them?

Largely a myth, but negative responses come from how the words are relayed, the inflections of the words and the person relaying them in general.

Simply saying, "Yeah, but those guys have just been playing the game in and out for such a long time, they're just in their own league!!" is better than "They're pros, they're better than you." That I could understand. I can accept that. No problems. Even before I came here.

But there's still the dual sides of the spectrum. There will always be casual players who throw fits, and there will always be pros who act like dickheads. Pros who use the term scrub liberally, Casuals who get on Pros for not using items. Infinite Whirlpool of Hatred effect.

The only thing we CAN do is hope they wise up and absorb their own egos, and make it better place for all.

 

[tutter]

I are pro !

 

[Giga Master Hand]

Like others have said before, the problem is that casual players disagree with the competitive players about the way the game should be played. Now that's weird, since there isn't a single way to play a game, just like "good" or "bad" are relative terms (vegetarians see eating meat as a bad thing, but other people don't; they don't flame each other becasue of that).

As I see it, newbies and noobs are just new players and whiney new players, respectively. That doesn't mean those new players always play casually, or that people who have played SSB for a long time are all "pros". New players are more likely to play casually and older players to play competitively, but that isn't always true. The SSB community seems split in casual/competitive, not newbies/pros (as those two terms are elitist and don't mean a thing; a "pro" casual player might be really good at using items/stage hazards and not be aware of many advanced techniques just like a competitive one knows all the techniques and doesn't care about items and/or stages with hazards).

SmashBoards' users are mostly competitive (since, you know, most casual players don't even know forums like this one even exist), and while I've read some rude responses to casual players, most of the time that's because the casuals want to change the way competitive players play the game. Whiney competitive players never go to casual boards to tell them they should play without items merely because there aren't any large casual SSB boards (for the reason explained above).

Whiney players exist on both sides, as cocky players who don't even know what they're doing or self-proclaimed "pros" that flame others because they know a certain technique the others don't. As long as forums like this exist, we'll always have whiney topics from both whiney casual and competitive players (like "Wave Dashing is cheating!" - which it isn't - or "Removing Wave Dashing was the worst change, as it lets newbies be on par with me" - which is mostly whiney and false). Competitive and casual players have completely different mindsets, and while we often see topics whining about the other side the truth is there are way more polite casual and competitive players than there are unpolite ones. It's just that polite players don't post millions of "We should accept each other and have fun our own way" topics simply because, you guessed it, they're polite.

Thus ends my wall of text. I hope this has been useful.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Exploitation, whatever. And yes, I know all about the joys of wavedashing (don't use it to move everywhere, but I use it often), and it is hella fun (lookit Luigi slide...right of the edge! OH NO! REVCOVERRECOVERRECOVER..dammit...), I guess I was just preparing myself for the worst possibility.

It is not an exploit either.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144716

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

At first, I can see where you are coming from by mentioning the prolonged elitism in these forums, but I think that you are confusing that term for 'competetive' players, and categorizing them as elitist because we have the same objectives.

Many of us here at smashboards try to provide a safe haven for competetive players who share our interest. We freely discuss the games techniques and how we can play with the wide plethora of characters at our disposal. In addition to that, we participate in tournaments and host them internationally. You can say that this is the best place for a smasher to tap into his abilities beyond the basic game, and make a name for themselves.

Now, with these things in mind, how can you be astonished that a more dedicated player can easily beat a player who doesn't dedicate himself to this game? Should the game be watered down to the point that it lacks any diverse mechanics? Even this game appeals to a wide audience, a skill gap will always exist as long as their is the chance that tactics can be etsablished in a algorithmic form.

I think that it's very egotistical of you to label us as 'elitist' when we are simply playing the game in a manner that benifits our community. Unfortunatly for you, we aren't going to cator towards casual people because they refuse to practice and become skilled at the game. You can't expect to achieve the same amount of success as a person who has dedicated himself without putting in aformentioned effort.

Skill gaps will continue to exist as long as those who refuse to learn complain. But, like most casual players, you feel that derailing the competetive playing scene will make the gap closer, when in reality you are refusing to coexist with your superiors, and make the factors for winning difficult to determin by adding unecessary variables. Even if we did obey casual rules, the majority of the wins would go towards the competitives? Why? Not because of the technical aspects, but through experience and knowledge.

Many casual players though that the removal of two essential melee techniques (Wavedashing & L-canceling) would derail the competitive community, but it didn't. Many melee veteran players are still showing great success in Brawl tournaments despite the game being new/less technical.

No matter which way you slice it, competitive players aren't just elitist, but they are over all better than the average player at the game, techniques or not. The technical aspect of smash may have been extremely important in Melee, but knowing how to use the fundimental mechanics was just as important. This will not change in Brawl. I guarantee it.

 

[Giga Master Hand]

At first, I can see where you are coming from by mentioning the prolonged elitism in these forums, but I think that you are confusing that term for 'competetive' players, and categorizing them as elitist because we have the same objectives.

Many of us here at smashboards try to provide a safe haven for competetive players who share our interest. We freely discuss the games techniques and how we can play with the wide plethora of characters at our disposal. In addition to that, we participate in tournaments and host them internationally. You can say that this is the best place for a smasher to tap into his abilities beyond the basic game, and make a name for themselves.

Now, with these things in mind, how can you be astonished that a more dedicated player can easily beat a player who doesn't dedicate himself to this game? Should the game be watered down to the point that it lacks any diverse mechanics? Even this game appeals to a wide audience, a skill gap will always exist as long as their is the chance that tactics can be etsablished in a algorithmic form.

I think that it's very egotistical of you to label us as 'elitist' when we are simply playing the game in a manner that benifits our community. Unfortunatly for you, we aren't going to cator towards casual people because they refuse to practice and become skilled at the game. You can't expect to achieve the same amount of success as a person who has dedicated himself without putting in aformentioned effort.

Skill gaps will continue to exist as long as those who refuse to learn complain. But, like most casual players, you feel that derailing the competetive playing scene will make the gap closer, when in reality you are refusing to coexist with your superiors, and make the factors for winning difficult to determin by adding unecessary variables. Even if we did obey casual rules, the majority of the wins would go towards the competitives? Why? Not because of the technical aspects, but through experience and knowledge.

Many casual players though that the removal of two essential melee techniques (Wavedashing & L-canceling) would derail the competitive community, but it didn't. Many melee veteran players are still showing great success in Brawl tournaments despite the game being new/less technical.

No matter which way you slice it, competitive players aren't just elitist, but they are over all better than the average player at the game, techniques or not. The technical aspect of smash may have been extremely important in Melee, but knowing how to use the fundimental mechanics was just as important. This will not change in Brawl. I guarantee it.

I'm in no way flaming you, but you've just said you aren't elitist and "when in reality you are refusing to coexist with your superiors" in the same post. Casual players can be skilled.

I've played the game for six-seven years, and I've mastered most characters, casually speaking. I know I would lose badly if I were to go to a competitive tourney, as I don't have the technical skill which is often required to do relatively well at tournaments, but that isn't what I care about. Please note I am not telling you I'm not competitive "because I have a life" or "competitive players aren't worth my while"; I accept you guys, just like other casual players should. You should learn that casual isn't the same as "weak" (skill-wise). A casual player with experience like me is really weak when compared to competitive players, but that doesn't mean I'm a bad player (or a great one, for that matter); I'm still good when compared to your average casual player.

Also, while most casual players often want to become competitive, there are some other players who don't, and they won't watch YouTube videos of Melee/Brawl tourneys or read this site's detailed character guides. While you say they won't get "better" if they don't do so, they can still be good at the way they play the game, and even learn some new tricks they can use in their casual battles (maybe even an "advanced technique").

I believe most competitive players are "good" ones, but there always are elitists. Nobody can deny that just as nobody should come here and label all competitive pleyers as elitists.

 

[Yuna]

What Smash Elitism?! What people not even considerng playing against n00bs? What discussions about the differences between Competitive and Casual players that weren't started by a Casual Player?!

There is no Elitism. Idiotic Casual Players who want to villify us, have reading comprehension problems, listen to rumors and myths started by other Idiotic Casual Players or who are just mad they're grouped with "The Casual Crowd" and therefore want to lash out want you to believe there is.

But there isn't. Find me any post of any established Competitive player saying "I don't want to play against n00bs" or one where we make fun of the Casual Community at large.

That's right, they do not exist.

This Elitism and rampant Casualphobia is imagined and belongs in a box with myths such as Pink Invisible Unicorns and Smash Bush Family Members.

 

[bylim5]

first off, why is there such debate between hardcore and casual? why is there such discussion about 'dumbing down' a game?

smash bros isn't the type of game to feel that tension. its a competitive party game and when i say party, its not those useless shovelware titles; and when i say competitive, i mean there are winners and losers. HOWEVER, everyone can play, everyone has different skills but it should not manifest into some sort of 'skill clash'

 

[SiegKnight]

If a casual player is a ******, they're a ****** as a person, if a casual player is nice, they're nice.

If a competetive player is a **** who verbally abuses casual players, they're a **** who verbally abuses casual players. If a competetive player is helpful to new people and doesn't frown on them... Well, you know.

This greatly differs from person to person. You'd have to rewrite the brains of every asshat on earth to change it. You may as well change the way Hitler and Saddam thought via some genetic code rewrite, because quite frankly, it isn't gonna happen unless they change themselves.

Stop stereotyping and stop making useless ****ing threads, I hardly browse this place and I'm considering not posting on account of all the casual vs competetive bull****.

It depends heavily on the individual you fool. No competetive player is the same as another and that goes for casuals too. Not all casuals are as liberal as you either. You're going to have one or two ***** who just feel the need to conflict with better players as we don't always play with items on and because we like to use everything at our disposal to win. Or because... They just love to annoy people.

Same with some competetives and elitism. That doesn't stop them from having very nice and helpful people amongst the pack.

Stop directing it as if its casuals vs competetives, thats grouping everyone as the same community on either side. Granted I also see light in the arguments about difficulty. A competetive doesn't always want to play with casuals because it doesn't always offer a challenge.

If it offered them a challenge, they'd likely play them. Some of them play them anyway for fun. Its just, choice of the individual.

I'll tell you this; I love casual smashing with my family and ****, but I'm a good player too. If you wanted me to fight with a non family member I didn't know who didn't offer me a challenge, I'd calmly walk off after two games. Not because they're casual, but because they sucked and I dislike punching bags.

I don't have anything against them, or smash bros, I just want to play where I feel it has more enjoyment for me.

Okay?

 

[Amorasaki]

Sorry to close a discussion after it being open so long, but I don't want people to get the impression that they can come in here and start throwing around accusations of elitism to stir up a fight.