Stop Shooting Ourselves in the Nuts, or, A Reasoned Discussion of Male Responses to F

[Sucumbio]

I had sex with my ex at my friends bday bash and it was awesOme.

But yeah ... Powerful comments from kass!

@jam just curious but did you have sex with your wife on your first date? I realize one person's experience cannot prove anything categorically, but statistically sPeaking I think most successful long term relationships involve some build up to intercourse. Without it the relationship tends to be sexual by default I would think.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

We aren't trying to justify it, we are simply giving the reasons for why it has come into existence. There is no justification for it. (If that is what you mean)

 

[Jam Stunna]

I had sex with my ex at my friends bday bash and it was awesOme.

But yeah ... Powerful comments from kass!

@jam just curious but did you have sex with your wife on your first date? I realize one person's experience cannot prove anything categorically, but statistically sPeaking I think most successful long term relationships involve some build up to intercourse. Without it the relationship tends to be sexual by default I would think.

Nope. And we're divorced now. What does that say about successful long-term relationships?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

That says nothing really, except that not having sex on the first date doesn't seal the deal for a long-term relationship.

 

[Oasis_S]

Well, as far as I know, women are supposed to be selective by nature when it comes to finding a mate. A woman's primal instincts is to find a guy who will actually stick around...

If we're talking PRIMAL INSTINCTS and such, I would imagine both women and men are selective in the same way, that is, to build a better offspring. Back in hairier times, monogamy (even if it only lasted until the baby was born) probably wasn't too much of a concern since the GROUPHERDPACK also took part in the raising of babbies. Social species and what not.

Not that any of that is too important nowadays.

 

[Sucumbio]

Nope. And we're divorced now. What does that say about successful long-term relationships?

I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[Teran]

except that not having sex on the first date doesn't seal the deal for a long-term relationship.

I think that was the point.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I had sex with my ex at my friends bday bash and it was awesOme.

There was absolutely no reason to say that other than to try and look cooler than everyone else here.

Nobody cares about your sex life. Nobody.

Anyway, glad to see the discussion has moved so far in the last few posts.

>:[

 

[Teran]

Don't get megaheel brother The Hulk can't be biased towards his marks.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I've been thinking about this a lot. I've always thought it was strange when talking with male friends about local girls, and the first thing out of their mouths is almost always "she's cool but a ****."

I just feel the need to shrug every time. If a person is single and practices sex safely as possible, what is the deal? Not to mention the sheeer hypocrisy of having all my man-**** friends brag about what random girl they brought home and slept with on a weekly basis...but to turn around and vilify a girl for doing the same thing...it's just stupid.

I think sex in general is blown way out of proportion. It doesn't have to be a significant and emotional apex in your life. It's okay to have sex just for fun. It's not okay to be uncomfortable with sexuality, which is something that many US education outlets tend to foster and encourage.

 

[Ussi]

Why no sex before marriage?

Before you just say religious beliefs, open up to what I'm saying. I'm not trying to change your ways, just genuinely curious.

As much as you want it to not be a driving factor in the marriage, sex is. It's one of the most important things... Without a good (or even decent) sex life, relationships tend to fail. I guess my point is you may be weighing premarital sex over divorce and divorce sure seems a lot worse.

Also, you should never look down on people because of having premarital sex. Just because your religion states that you shouldn't (can't) do it, doesn't mean all of them do. It's like looking down on someone that smokes or drinks or isn't interested in video games. Just because they're different, they're not undoubtedly wrong.

I'll respond to this as i think thats the essense of what people want from me

Comparing sex before marriage with divorce.. When two virgins marry, chance of divorce is very low since one, they committed to waiting so long, two, they haven't had sex before to compare it. Not that its the reason people get divorced, but virgin marriages have a much less chance of having a divorce.

Then there are other problems, such as STDs, illegitiment children, habits form wanting more. The sterotype guys would do anything for sex exists cause of this.

Can't really say my last line since it brings up topic that must not be named.

Looking down may have been the wrong choice of words, sorry. How about i just view people who control themselves in higher esteem?

 

[Falconv1.0]

I'll respond to this as i think thats the essense of what people want from me

Comparing sex before marriage with divorce.. When two virgins marry, chance of divorce is very low since one, they committed to waiting so long, two, they haven't had sex before to compare it. Not that its the reason people get divorced, but virgin marriages have a much less chance of having a divorce.

Do you actually have statistics to back this up? And is this excluding virgin marriages where the marriage is ****ing forced on them by the parents?

 

[Ussi]

Book/article(can read online on google): The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States

On page 503 it states when a man marries a virgin 63% chance less to divorce, women are 76% less.

Dunno about excluding forced marriages.

 

[Master Xanthan]

Idk about the "virgin marriages have better chances of not ending up in divorce" but avoiding sex in order to avoid having children and STD's is a pretty good reason. Obviously protection helps against those 2 things, but its not 100 percent effective.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

It's not okay to be uncomfortable with sexuality, which is something that many US education outlets tend to foster and encourage.

I don't see this happening.

 

[Teran]

I think it's pretty asinine to assume that a virgin couple's virginity is the reason why the divorce rate is low.

If you're marrying as a virgin nowadays, you can bet there's a large amount of social conditioning and culture of some sort heavily influencing the marriage and the people in it.

Not to say that it's a bad thing, but often it's the disgrace and stigma of divorce in those circles among other things that contributes to the lasting power fo the marriages.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I don't see this happening.

Wha?

Don't see what happening? If you don't believe that sexual education in most US states is extremely poor and ignorant, than I don't know what to tell you.

I'm assuming you mean to say that you don't see the situation improving any time soon, in which case I would agree wholeheartedly!

 

[Sucumbio]

There was absolutely no reason to say that other than to try and look cooler than everyone else here.

Nobody cares about your sex life. Nobody.

So bitter! I don't need to look cooler than everyone else here, it's a given, sheesh. Get on my level *****. 'sides that comment was in response to kassandra ><

@Teran, very true. I've known 2 couples IRL that were high school sweet hearts and waited until marriage to have traditional sex. I say traditional because they did experiment with other forms of pleasure, up to and including anal sex but baby-making sex was avoided. They were both from strict traditional upbringings, religious backgrounds, etc. I've even heard there are some groups of kids who are abstinence crazy, and will only date within their circle of like-minded people, eschewing all forms of sex and sexual pleasure because it's either sinful or at the very least goes against their family values.

Not to mention this ignores happy marriage vs marriage. If 2 virgins marry and are at a higher percent to stay married, what's the statistic on their cumulative happiness vs. 2 people who were not virgins who got married, but ended up divorced. Or ones like my in-laws' mother/father ... they ended up sleeping on opposite sides of the house in order to stay "happily married."

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Wait... they were traditional religious people not willing to do it because of said things, but then they were willing to do several sexual things, one of them being pretty much the same dang thing but in ways more extreme?

Sense. They make none.

 

[§witch]

Well, as far as I know, women are supposed to be selective by nature when it comes to finding a mate. A woman's primal instincts is to find a guy who will actually stick around, because you know, when women go around ****ing everything, WE pay the ultimate price, we have a kid. So when it comes to having sex, we should be selective, and not just do it for whatever reason because one bad choice can lead to kid. To a life. That's why it's considered taboo for girls to do that. What if they have a child with someone they don't love or what if at that bday bash, she got pregnant, how does she explain that to her kid? Yeah I just wanted some d*** on my bday and then you happened. Enjoy your ******* child and the joys of single parenting.
Since women have the ability to reproduce we suffer the most if a screw up happens during sex. We carry the ****ing mistake in our stomachs for months, while guys can just write something off as a simple child support check, no women have to deal with it. That's why. That's why girls shouldn't behave that way. Because its ****ing dangerous. Wreck less, and irresponsible.

Yeah, this is all bull****. Women should be allowed to be just as sexual as men, without stigmatization. That's the point. Not the possible consequences. Contraception isn't that hard to figure out, and if something goes wrong, there's always abortion or adoption.

 

[100 proof%]

Really the fact that is forgotten the most here is people don't know what they want most of the time.

 

[Ussi]

Wait... they were traditional religious people not willing to do it because of said things, but then they were willing to do several sexual things, one of them being pretty much the same dang thing but in ways more extreme?

Sense. They make none.

Emphasis on this post



To the original topic:

Society looks down on women probably cause they just aren't used to women being able to seek sexual gratification. I think a good chunk of people though understand that its fine. Its just gonna take time for people to adjust.

 

[Master Xanthan]

Wait... they were traditional religious people not willing to do it because of said things, but then they were willing to do several sexual things, one of them being pretty much the same dang thing but in ways more extreme?

Sense. They make none.

It sounds like they were trying to find loopholes so that they could still experience pleasure without the guilt. They were probably trying to justify it by thinking "well its not traditional sex, so its not really sex".

 

[Ussi]

I would go on to ask what religion even allows anal? But religion talk is banned.

Sooo...

Loopholes, not really showing how much you stand for something..

 

[Master Xanthan]

I would go on to ask what religion even allows anal? But religion talk is banned.

Eh idk, I'm just trying to figure out the logic behind why some people do the things they do.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Wha?

Don't see what happening? If you don't believe that sexual education in most US states is extremely poor and ignorant, than I don't know what to tell you.

I'm assuming you mean to say that you don't see the situation improving any time soon, in which case I would agree wholeheartedly!

Sorry, I think I got confused with your wording of that sentence.

I do think that sexual education in the US is extremely poor and ignorant.
As is most of the public education in the US in general.

It's not okay to be uncomfortable with sexuality, which is something that many US education outlets tend to foster and encourage.

I thought the "not" cancelled out the "uncomfortable" part, for some reason.

As in;

It's okay to be comfortable with sexuality, which is something that many US education outlets tend to foster and encourage.

Which I did not agree with.

 

[Sucumbio]

I do think that sexual education in the US is extremely poor and ignorant.

If I may ask, why do you think this? I'm just curious. I mean... for me anyway, sex ed started in 5th grade, and was mostly about male and female anatomy (which could arguably be taught in High School Biology Class, it's just that since puberty starts around 5th grade for most people, it's better to start talking about that stuff so kids don't go experimenting on their own and knocking each other up and spreading disease kinda thing.)

After 5th grade's introduction to sex organs, and answering questions like "why do I get hard when I think about girls" it kinda just repeated year after year with reminders on what fallopian tubes are, and why you should wear rubbers for any kind of penetrative sex (though I will admit not all schools mention that anal and oral sex is included in this - mine was).

But as for "ignorance" I'd have to say no, actually my sex ed classes were quite informative and backed by strong source materials.

What I'm getting at is that this idea that "sex ed in America is lacking" seems to be an unwarranted default go-to position for many people. The fact that kids still go out and have unprotected sex and make unwanted babies and contract STDs has little to do with the merit of sex ed, imho. It's got a lot more to do with the personal morals and values of the individuals involved, and of course, the parenting or lack thereof that's taking place.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I remember in seventh grade a boy in our class discovered girls didn't have penises. Bahaha that poor sweet innocent kid.. That was a rough day for him.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

If I may ask, why do you think this? I'm just curious. I mean... for me anyway, sex ed started in 5th grade, and was mostly about male and female anatomy (which could arguably be taught in High School Biology Class, it's just that since puberty starts around 5th grade for most people, it's better to start talking about that stuff so kids don't go experimenting on their own and knocking each other up and spreading disease kinda thing.)

After 5th grade's introduction to sex organs, and answering questions like "why do I get hard when I think about girls" it kinda just repeated year after year with reminders on what fallopian tubes are, and why you should wear rubbers for any kind of penetrative sex (though I will admit not all schools mention that anal and oral sex is included in this - mine was).

But as for "ignorance" I'd have to say no, actually my sex ed classes were quite informative and backed by strong source materials.

What I'm getting at is that this idea that "sex ed in America is lacking" seems to be an unwarranted default go-to position for many people. The fact that kids still go out and have unprotected sex and make unwanted babies and contract STDs has little to do with the merit of sex ed, imho. It's got a lot more to do with the personal morals and values of the individuals involved, and of course, the parenting or lack thereof that's taking place.

I haven't experienced anything like you, then.

None of my friends have.

If there is rampant unprotected sex/unwanted babies/STDs, then it goes to show that the sexual education is poor.

Either that, or the teen population is obscenely ********. Which it mostly is.

Also I don't like America. At all.

 

[Sol9000]

What the hell is this, the proving grounds?

My thoughts exactly... -.-

It's not okay to be uncomfortable with sexuality

You have officially lost any and all respect from me...

 

[Falconv1.0]

You would respect him more if we were uncomfortable with our sexuality?

Wat.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I haven't experienced anything like you, then.

None of my friends have.

If there is rampant unprotected sex/unwanted babies/STDs, then it goes to show that the sexual education is poor.

Either that, or the teen population is obscenely ********. Which it mostly is.

Also I don't like America. At all.

While your anti-America thing is very trite and tired (i mean come on you don't have to tell us you don't like the US in every single post you make. we get it), I think what you are getting at is the divide between all-encompassing sex ed and abstinence-only sex ed, the latter of which is more popular in some areas of the US. I couldn't directly compare the prevalence abstinence-education of the US to any other country because I don't know the solid numbers, but a lot of federal legislation is focused on abstinence over anything else. I couldn't tell you if the US in general is more abstinent-focused than other developed countries but it's still a problem. Abstinence-only education needs to go.

You have officially lost any and all respect from me...

Care to elaborate? Do you think it's healthy and natural to be afraid and wary of sexuality? Do you think sex is wrong? Are you 10 years old?

 

[Sol9000]

You would respect him more if we were uncomfortable with our sexuality?

Wat.

He offended me with what he said in that quote.

While you're anti-America thing is very trite and tired (i mean come on you don't have to tell us you don't like the US in every single post you make. we get it), I think what you are getting at is the divide between all-encompassing sex ed and abstinence-only sex ed, the latter of which is more popular in some areas of the US. I couldn't directly compare the abstinence-education of the US to any other country because I don't know the solid numbers, but a lot of federal legislation is focused on abstinence over anything else. I couldn't tell you if the US in general is more abstinent-focused than other developed countries but it's still a problem. Abstinence-only education needs to go.



Care to elaborate? Do you think it's healthy and natural to be afraid and wary of sexuality? Do you think sex is wrong? Are you 10 years old?

lol I thought the first part was directed towards me...

As for the latter I do not find sex as "wrong" since it is (for now, if we plan on cloning) the only way we reproduce.

No, I am not ten years old. You missed by quite a bit.

Natural? Certainly not. But then again, I press buttons on a controller and stare at a screen. That's the pure opposite of natural...

As for healthy, do you really think anyone can live forever? Sure it may be important if you plan on reproducing but that brings us back to square one, doesn't it?

And why are you so insistent to make sure I agree with you?

And another thing: Why is it that you must be kept in the dark for the first ten years then forced to get married and reproduce after the first 18? Did god accidentally forget to program into human mentality to not be hypocritical at all costs when he was making humans evolve from monkeys? Or did he forget it on purpose just to see how bad we failed at life...

If it's the former he's made a mistake, btw. And since a lot of folks are fanboys of god they say he doesn't make mistakes.
So it must be the latter, perhaps...?

 

[Luigitoilet]

He offended me with what he said in that quote.



lol I thought the first part was directed towards me...

As for the latter I do not find sex as "wrong" since it is (for now, if we plan on cloning) the only way we reproduce.

No, I am not ten years old. You missed by quite a bit.

Natural? Certainly not. But then again, I press buttons on a controller and stare at a screen. That's the pure opposite of natural...

As for healthy, do you really think anyone can live forever? Sure it may be important if you plan on reproducing but that brings us back to square one, doesn't it?

And why are you so insistent to make sure I agree with you?

And another thing: Why is it that you must be kept in the dark for the first ten years then forced to get married and reproduce after the first 18? Did god accidentally forget to program into human mentality to not be hypocritical at all costs when he was making humans evolve from monkeys? Or did he forget it on purpose just to see how bad we failed at life...

If it's the former he's made a mistake, btw. And since a lot of folks are fanboys of god they say he doesn't make mistakes.
So it must be the latter, perhaps...?

What

I wasn't trying to get you to agree with me, I was trying to understand what your point was...and I have to say, after this post I'm even more confused. What exactly are you trying to say?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I read that post from the beginning and came out the other end more confused about life than I was going in.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Sol9000 we are asking about what the **** in the statement "It's not okay to be uncomfortable with sexuality" offended you.

You did not even kinda answer that. I'm not entirely sure you're even reading the same ****ing thread here.

 

[Sol9000]

What

I wasn't trying to get you to agree with me, I was trying to understand what your point was...and I have to say, after this post I'm even more confused. What exactly are you trying to say?

Since you aren't arguing with me anymore, the post has served it's purpose.

Sol9000 we are asking about what the **** in the statement "It's not okay to be uncomfortable with sexuality" offended you.

You did not even kinda answer that. I'm not entirely sure you're even reading the same ****ing thread here.

Well, I am uncomfortable with sexuality to an extent. It's fine with me as long as I'm not involved with it in any way, shape, or form...

Oh, I'm reading the same thread alright...

 

[Falconv1.0]

Well, I am uncomfortable with sexuality to an extent. It's fine with me as long as I'm not involved with it in any way, shape, or form...

And thus him saying you should be comfortable, which is a positive thing unless you're in saying, made you lose any respect for him?

Doh'kay.

 

[Sol9000]

And thus him saying you should be comfortable, which is a positive thing unless you're in saying, made you lose any respect for him?

Doh'kay.

*Facepalm* Apparently I misread the 100% intention of that, but oh well...

But seriously, I plan on dying a virgin, thank you...

 

[Master Xanthan]

*Facepalm* Apparently I misread the 100% intention of that, but oh well...

But seriously, I plan on dying a virgin, thank you...

Why is that?