Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[rhan]

I love Terran.

I respect every Zerg player.

I hate Protoss.

*Coolshades*

 

[Fernandez]

terans is still op but for some reason the tvp metagame changed alot so now its way easier for toss,
seriously i had more problems with terrans few months ago and i am way worse now cuz i havnt played 1v1 alot lately

 

[Zankoku]

While the general trend of patches would agree with you, I really don't think Terran is overpowered by a significant level.

 

[Zone]

Me either

 

[j00t]

Terran's probably the hardest race right now, tbh.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

terran takes the most mechanics, but has the most rewards.

 

[Kenrawr]

While the general trend of patches would agree with you, I really don't think Terran is overpowered by a significant level.

i always got the vibe you thought terran was super OP. i'm glad to hear you don't, tho.

 

[Zankoku]

Really? Where did you get that from?

 

[Kenrawr]

o boy, goes way back when you were talking about the massive amount of T in the GSL. then the lil "mass rines and win" 'tude. i started to read all your posts with the tone of you thinking T was really OP.

for example, that thor nerf and how you didn't seem to mind.

btw, i meant to ask earlier. what's the point of that nerf? i never see thor used vs P late game. i've heard the cannons are decent vs colossi but every rep/vid i've seen it kinda fails when the terran attempts it

 

[Zankoku]

I was laughing about the Thor "nerf" because it just makes them back how they used to be, sorta like how Zealots went like this:

Beta 17 - Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33
1.1.0 - Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38
1.3.3 PTR last week - Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33
1.3.3 PTR now - Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38

I still just mass Marines and win. I point out how you can do this with any race (except with different units) and still win against a lot of bad players, too.

As for the whole "massive amount of T" in GSL, I made a post pointing out the entire top 4 of GSL February being Terran because there were a couple guys complaining about T being underpowered (lol wtf?), including one guy citing how T never won a GSL.


Anyway, as far as I can tell they're just doing this to help give more relevance to High Templar again due to removing the Khaydarin Amulet last patch.

 

[NyTeStRiDeR]

its cuz thor with strike cannons hard counters immortals

 

[Zankoku]

They can still Strike Cannon Immortals, they just have to sit around longer to use it...

 

[Kenrawr]

oops, immortals not colossi*

 

[Zankoku]

Probably the best example of Strike Cannons to shut down Immortal play (or rather, Strike Cannons to blow past the counter of Immortals vs Thors) was Thorzain vs MC in the TSL3. Strike Cannons are definitely great against Colossi, though, since it locks them down and lets the rest of your army safely charge in.

 

[NyTeStRiDeR]

thats the point, its a nerf to the timing push

 

[Zankoku]

One Thor that immediately has Strike Cannons isn't going to hard counter the half dozen Immortals that could've easily been pumped out by the time you have everything made and researched. Winning with Strike Cannons isn't a timing push, it's winning with a mass of Thors. Hell, Thorzain didn't even begin his attack vs MC until he had +2 Vehicle Plating.

 

[Kenrawr]

wouldn't the thors get strike cannon before the toss player even has HT tho?

 

[Zankoku]

You can get Strike Cannons whenever you want, but it's not really necessary unless you're facing lots of robo tech. The more important aspect of the change is that Thors now have energy and can therefore get ***** for half their life from a 50 energy spell just because they exist.

 

[rhan]

Focus Firing a Thor as it channels that one ability isn't hard. It takes them like 4 years before they start shooting off.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

really? i thought they started shooting immediately.

IMO thors are really underrated. They have insane DPS to ground (much better than their air DPS) and can tank a lot. Lots of current counters to terran is AoE, and thors are resistant to that.

 

[Zankoku]

Thors have 2 second startup and 2 second cooldown on Strike Cannons.

 

[rhan]

really? i thought they started shooting immediately.

IMO thors are really underrated. They have insane DPS to ground (much better than their air DPS) and can tank a lot. Lots of current counters to terran is AoE, and thors are resistant to that.

Nope. It's 2+6+2.

The beginning lag gives enough time to quickly spot that and focus it down. Since it's kinda of a later mid game upgrade one should have a ton of units by then. Though I can see how it can possibly be a problem if it's apart of a Thor rush or just used in mass Thor play.

Hmmm... after giving this some thought how much energy was a Thor allowed to max out on before that patch? Was it like 100? or 200? I don't think it'll be that much of a problem to give it back it's bar. But with that it's like buffing one side of the battle and nerfing the other side and with keeping it is kinda like the same thing.


I'm kind of on the fence about it now.

 

[Zankoku]

The Thor is being reverted to exactly the way it was before they changed Strike Cannons.

 

[rhan]

Patch 11 (version 0.13.0.15250)
Ground damage decreased from 45 to 30.
Ground rate of fire improved from 1.93 to 1.28.
Air damage changed from 8 (+4 Light) to 6 (+6 Light).
250mm Strike Cannons are now an upgrade at the Factory Tech Lab.
250mm Strike Cannons research now costs 150/150 and 110 seconds.
250mm Strike Cannons energy cost increased from 100 to 150.
Anti-Air splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.

Patch 17 (version 0.20.0.16036) [1]
250mm Strike Cannons can no longer deal damage to hidden targets.

Patch 1.1.2
Energy bar removed.
250mm Strike Cannons is now cooldown-based on a 50-second cooldown. Ability starts with cooldown available (useable immediately after upgrade is researched).

_____

All the patches that involved 250mm since beta. It doesn't indicate how much energy the Thor actually had but the cost of using the 250mm was 150. So it was probably 150-200 cap. Seems fair since Thors have 400hp. Feedback would be able to deal max half of the damage which can be bad for the Terran but if they continue to use the 250mm strike then it wouldn't be so bad. But it'll mostly hurt the players that ignore that upgrade all together..

Maybe just not having it available for immediate use upon the research being finished and giving it it's normal 50s cool down then able.

Idk. I'm still on the fence.

Edit: Just looked up the recent PTR patch.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_1.3.3_"PTR"

So yeah everything still looks okay. I don't know how Zerg players would feel about the Infestor 's speed being decreased a little bit.

 

[NyTeStRiDeR]

Nope. It's 2+6+2.

The beginning lag gives enough time to quickly spot that and focus it down. Since it's kinda of a later mid game upgrade one should have a ton of units by then. Though I can see how it can possibly be a problem if it's apart of a Thor rush or just used in mass Thor play.

Hmmm... after giving this some thought how much energy was a Thor allowed to max out on before that patch? Was it like 100? or 200? I don't think it'll be that much of a problem to give it back it's bar. But with that it's like buffing one side of the battle and nerfing the other side and with keeping it is kinda like the same thing.


I'm kind of on the fence about it now.

You're not gonna focus down thors with scvs repairing fast enough b4 they can stun however many immortals toss is going to have. This nerf is a pretty big change to the thors, but players saying thors won't be viable at all are ridiculous.

If irc correctly (not sure though), strike cannons only slightly better than its normal ground attk against ultras(with the exception against of immortals as they have hardened shields) so thors without it arent that bad. I think i heard that around the time when FD won gsl so yea might be totally wrong on that as that was a long time ago.

pre ptr patch, what toss can do against thors in a typical situation:

-gateway (everything melts, especially after +2armor thors)

(sentry - hallucination. While there isn't much else to do with your sentries besides guardian shield, 1 scan or a raven makes hallucination ineffective)

- robo
(ideally immortal but the strike cannons coming into play makes immo a waste of 250/100)

(mass col i dont see happening unless it is very late game where u had an absurd amt and even if it got to that point a terran should prob be scouting with scans or watever to adjust the composition over time with vikings)

(warpprism - lifting the immo to cancel the strike cannons would be nice. But making the prism cuts into immortal production and every1 knows that they are paperweights. Would probably need to make more prisms relative to how ever immortals toss is planning on saving against strike cannons)

- stargate (vrays - does any1 really think vrays would have a chance? thors without support yea, but really not happening. Only if for some random reason all the vrays were precharged b4 the fight even then stim marines clean that up so quick.)

(pheonix - grav beam can help save the immortal as lifting the immo and dropping it can cancel the strike cannon, but investing 150/150 for the stargate and however many 150/100 pheonix just for a chance to save the immo isnt exactly cost efficient at all. Even if saved with gravbeam, focus fire always takes down immo b4 it gets a few shots. Not to mention the pheonix has no other role after using its nrg to lift, seeing that toss wont be mass producing enough pheonix to deal dmg that along with immo/gateway)

- Templar tech (dt - can work, but terrans saving scans is pretty common if they even have a hint of a twilight being put down, making the tech pretty useless in a army clash) as well as a raven

(ht - storm not exactly ideal against thors)
(archons - 100/300, 250/250 better spent elsewhere)

current ptr patches:

thor energy - yes feedback is pretty much gonna take half the thors life. I even feel with this change that terrans won't even be getting the cannons anymore. But the common thing that will probably happen now if terran decides to go thors is to get ghosts to emp the thors to prevent feedback.

Yes, mech units cost lots of gas, but many aren't even acknowledging the ghost buff changing cost from 150/150 to 200/100. Ghost also will pretty much make the immortals melt. You see ht? emp the ht or emp the thors. You see immortals? emp the immortals.

-Just saying Thors wont be utter garbs just cuz of this patch if it goes through

 

[Zankoku]

Just a note, Stargate is 150/150, not 250/150. Protoss love their gas.

 

[rhan]

Leaning more to this after that explination. I know Thors don't exact do that well againt Collossus one on one though and the Collossus beam also melts scv's repairing the thor because of the threat priority while repairing.

Meh. The energy bar can make them even against Toss. I also suppose my views can be bias because I rarely use Thors. Lmaooo

 

[Zankoku]

Outta respect, I'll refrain from spoiling GSL Code A finals, but they were very intense and you guys should definitely watch them once the VODs are up, especially if you enjoy TvT.

 

[AltF4]

Infestor movement speed decrease is a Zerg buff, like they said on SotG. The Infestor used to move so fast, it would run in the front of your army in big engagements. Now it'll naturally stay in the back like High Templar.

 

[Omni]

If you don't want the energy before an engagement can't you just use it on an SCV or indestructible rock or something?

 

[rhan]

Infestor movement speed decrease is a Zerg buff, like they said on SotG. The Infestor used to move so fast, it would run in the front of your army in big engagements. Now it'll naturally stay in the back like High Templar.

Ahhhhhh makes sense.

 

[Zone]

Perhaps a buff to lazy players >.>

 

[Fernandez]

yea how the hell is that a buff? lol
i dont get that explanation at all, does everyone use only 1 control group for their entire army or something >_>
now when you back out your infestors get ***** just like ht for toss, well infestors can burrow i guess =)

 

[Zankoku]

Infestor movement speed decrease is a Zerg buff, like they said on SotG. The Infestor used to move so fast, it would run in the front of your army in big engagements. Now it'll naturally stay in the back like High Templar.

This sounds so much like SotG was just trolling.

If you don't want the energy before an engagement can't you just use it on an SCV or indestructible rock or something?

Only if you wait until you have 150 energy. Getting a Ghost to EMP just before moving out sounds better.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

I love this thread

Spoiler

jk

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Code S Semi Spoilers

Spoiler

Holy ****, InCa WUTTTT

 

[Kenrawr]

dawg it's all about

Spoiler

sC vs NesTea! so good

i'm sad about nada

 

[AltF4]

I go through such phases. I had a long win streak where I won like 16 of 18. Then lost 4 of 5 before I stopped.

I'm having trouble with ZvZ. Could use some practice. If anyone sees me on, give me a message!
(BTW: Someone did msg me as soon as I logged off. Sorry I didn't respond!)

 

[Pakman]

I am on a pretty bad losing trend myself. I should probably stop trying unusual builds without practicing them.

 

[rhan]

I've been on a roll in about every match I've done so far. Actually got promoted twice today in 2v2's and 3v3's with a couple friends. Went from Gold to Upper Platinum in 2v2's and went from Platinum to 13 Diamond in 3v3's.

Though I know teams don't matter as much as 1's but I just found it surprising that promotions were just given out like that so easily.

Other related news:
http://www.sc2ranks.com/

Where did all the Latin America and China players come from?? I swear like a week ago Idra and all the other US/EU names were dominating the overall GM ranks.