Standardized Ruleset Development Idea

[LiteralGrill]

Guys! This thread was the most popular thing on the 3DS forum, and now it is abandoned because you all flocked over to the Wii U discussion forum, "Proposed rules" or whatever it is called. Capps, didn't you want more people to use the 3DS forum? After everyone left, I barely got any alerts about this thread.

Anyways, T0MMY, I agree with what most of what you said, and now I am wondering why I thought of banning characters from places, just because it seemed unfair. I am just wondering, If random hazards affect both players, why would you want it off? Places like Eldin Bridge have a hazard, but it gives a warning (you hear the animal running) and the bomb is an easy thing to stay away from.

Sorry man, the one on the Wii U forums actually got plopped on facebook by Smashboards, had to do some talking there.

BUT if we wanna get back on topic, I can try to rewrite my "mini manifesto again.

 

[mimgrim]

Walk offs aren't bad if handled correctly. Take for example Delfino Plaza, this stages has transformations with walk offs but they won't stay there permantly meaning the stage won't cause over centralazation. Or take a look at Distant Planet (God I wish this stage was legal in my region e_e), it only has one walk off and that walk off takes practice to get good at chain grabbing on it due to the slant but still allows recovery to be a big part of the stage. The other problem with Bridge of Eldin is that, to put it simply, the stage is jsut to big for 1V1 play. A giant stage like Temple, Pork City, or een Bridge of Eldin are just, imo, to big for 1V1 play with the fact that they cause other problems in 1V1 play. I mena really for 1 on 1 battles a stage should be a reasonable size. Now in 2V2 play it could be a different story for these stated stages.

 

[T0MMY]

Anyways, T0MMY, I agree with what most of what you said, and now I am wondering why I thought of banning characters from places, just because it seemed unfair. I am just wondering, If random hazards affect both players, why would you want it off? Places like Eldin Bridge have a hazard, but it gives a warning (you hear the animal running) and the bomb is an easy thing to stay away from.

Good point, and one I will most likely have to repeat heavily.
The random hazards affecting both players is fair, but not the reason I have these stages toggled OFF. The reason for toggling it OFF is because it violates the competitive standard on basis of luck over skill.

As long as the standard states Skill trumps lucks then random environmental damage would not be promoted in a ruleset which adheres to that standard.
As a TO I distance myself from those vociferous players by reminding them that these stages are not "banned" from the event, they simply are just toggled OFF and will not be randomed if it comes down to a referee choice (which must be unbiased).
Those wacky stages can still be used for play if both players agree to it (and wonky stages without the environmental damage can still be used without an agreement).

Thanks for asking about that.

 

[BaPr]

So, stages with walk offs are naturally banned. What about that nintendogs stage? You could be on top of those blocks and fight there (although, it could encourage camping).

 

[LiteralGrill]

You never know with walkoffs, many people fought for Onett to be legal for quite some time. Honestly, walk off stages really should be put in a category for testing, but not immediately legal. You never know what Sm4sh will bring.

 

[SmasherP82]

Walk off stages I didn't like Onett (mainly because I always get hit by a car all the time and die) but I liked Earthbound it was cool I hope it's a returning stage for 3DS....EXCLUSIVELY!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BaPr]

Who was the one that said we should have tournaments where all stages are banned unless someone wants it. Like, if I want FD ans Big Blue, we keep it in. If no one wants a stage, it is banned.

 

[Aidebit]

For the first year, as we do some testing on stages, like finding out which stages are random, what transformations are, etc, that could work, however, I could see some people being opposed to the idea as one people could want a 'janky' stage, and it might ruin their experience.
Also, if we do do that, what if we have a system where each person has a set number of stages that they could set as legal, and every tournament they'd go to for the set time period would have that as legal. (It'd take some real good organization, though, maybe we could set stages by 3DS' profiles, or however it works... don't have a 3DS so I can't really get a feel for what we could do.)

 

[BaPr]

For the first year, as we do some testing on stages, like finding out which stages are random, what transformations are, etc, that could work, however, I could see some people being opposed to the idea as one people could want a 'janky' stage, and it might ruin their experience.
Also, if we do do that, what if we have a system where each person has a set number of stages that they could set as legal, and every tournament they'd go to for the set time period would have that as legal. (It'd take some real good organization, though, maybe we could set stages by 3DS' profiles, or however it works... don't have a 3DS so I can't really get a feel for what we could do.)

This isn't really an idea that should be going on all the time. I was just thinking at the beginning to help with setting rules. Also, I guess the stagelist would mess things up. I doubt people would do that on purpose though. It could be like playing with friends, where you both set the rules, and are notified when the other does.

 

[Aidebit]

This isn't really an idea that should be going on all the time. I was just thinking at the beginning to help with setting rules. Also, I guess the stagelist would mess things up. I doubt people would do that on purpose though. It could be like playing with friends, where you both set the rules, and are notified when the other does.

Yeah, I guess so. However, there are people who will try and put seemingly random stages on in order to increase their chance of winning, I've contemplated the idea before. Also, would this system be like a compromise system, where you try to reach an agreement with your opponent?

 

[BaPr]

Yeah, I guess so. However, there are people who will try and put seemingly random stages on in order to increase their chance of winning, I've contemplated the idea before. Also, would this system be like a compromise system, where you try to reach an agreement with your opponent?

I think the settings will be set to tournament rules. If Brawl was for the 3DS, we would have certain stages on and certain off, and we would all have items off. Like, everyone will have FD, Smashville, and Battlefield switched on, and whatever else that needs to be on, but stages like Bridge of eldin, Big Blue, and others will be switched off. If one person doesn't have the correct setting, they could be warned, or have a penalty.

 

[Aidebit]

I think the settings will be set to tournament rules. If Brawl was for the 3DS, we would have certain stages on and certain off, and we would all have items off. Like, everyone will have FD, Smashville, and Battlefield switched on, and whatever else that needs to be on, but stages like Bridge of eldin, Big Blue, and others will be switched off. If one person doesn't have the correct setting, they could be warned, or have a penalty.

Yeah, then that brings us back to the point of discussion, what will be our ruleset for the 3DS? Will we be liberal at the start? Or conservative? Should we wait for stages to be tested fully before having tournaments? Or do we just use whatever ruleset the TO likes?

 

[Aidebit]

double post

 

[BaPr]

Yeah, then that brings us back to the point of discussion, what will be our ruleset for the 3DS? Will we be liberal at the start? Or conservative? Should we wait for stages to be tested fully before having tournaments? Or do we just use whatever ruleset the TO likes?

I believe we should test the stages completely before making any decisions. Something could be considered random when, in fact, it happens every minute. Also, whatever the TO wants is what we go with. It's up to the TO on what is legal and not.

 

[Aidebit]

I believe we should test the stages completely before making any decisions. Something could be considered random when, in fact, it happens every minute. Also, whatever the TO wants is what we go with. It's up to the TO on what is legal and not.

So, let TOs decide things first, see if they work, then after we test the stages a lot, we'll create a standard ruleset?

 

[BaPr]

So, let TOs decide things first, see if they work, then after we test the stages a lot, we'll create a standard ruleset?

Not just the TO's, but everyone should basically test the stages and give feedback. When it comes out, I might make a thread about which stages have been tested and stuff.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I have plans to heavily test stages on the 3DS once they come out. I'm hoping to get a small team on it to help, and a thread up then myself, we'll definitely know about 3DS stages!

Here are my plans as a future 3DS TO and what I probably will do and would recommend.

I'm going to split stages based on initial reactions into groups, probably 6 groups TOPS.

Group 1 will be stages that look like they'll have no problem being legal from the beginning, and it will go down the spectrum to Group 6 which look to be obvious bans. (Temple, New Pork City, ect.)

I'll start the most through testing around group 3 as they are the borderline for legality, then work my way up through Group 2 moving stages as necessary. I'll then go back through Group 4 and 5, hit Group 1, then hit Group 6. I'm doing this order where you hop back and forth based on priority and likelihood info will be needed on certain stages. After the testing is done and settled, I'll "lock" the list, using groups 1 and 2 for most events, and maybe dipping into 3 for events liberally geared. I plan to keep all of 1 and 2 legal no matter what unless something huge happens to change the meta game. This way, I have a general compromise between liberal and conservative mindsets for any particularly large events Smash 3DS may have.

 

[SmasherP82]

I have plans to heavily test stages on the 3DS once they come out. I'm hoping to get a small team on it to help, and a thread up then myself, we'll definitely know about 3DS stages!

Here are my plans as a future 3DS TO and what I probably will do and would recommend.

I'm going to split stages based on initial reactions into groups, probably 6 groups TOPS.

Group 1 will be stages that look like they'll have no problem being legal from the beginning, and it will go down the spectrum to Group 6 which look to be obvious bans. (Temple, New Pork City, ect.)

I'll start the most through testing around group 3 as they are the borderline for legality, then work my way up through Group 2 moving stages as necessary. I'll then go back through Group 4 and 5, hit Group 1, then hit Group 6. I'm doing this order where you hop back and forth based on priority and likelihood info will be needed on certain stages. After the testing is done and settled, I'll "lock" the list, using groups 1 and 2 for most events, and maybe dipping into 3 for events liberally geared. I plan to keep all of 1 and 2 legal no matter what unless something huge happens to change the meta game. This way, I have a general compromise between liberal and conservative mindsets for any particularly large events Smash 3DS may have.

that's got to be on the best I ideas I ever heard of :D

 

[LiteralGrill]

that's got to be on the best I ideas I ever heard of :D

Thanks! It's something I've been trying to work on for a while, I know it still needs more work, butt I'll get it 100% written out with every detail at some point.

 

[SmasherP82]

Thanks! It's something I've been trying to work on for a while, I know it still needs more work, butt I'll get it 100% written out with every detail at some point.

kk just waiting for it to be Monday I wanna see the new pics already x.x