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Stale Move numbers/timing?

Gotmilk0112

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
151
I've watched Smash 4 tournament videos were the announcers seemed to know when an attack became stale. How does one tell? Is there some visual indicator that I'm missing? Or a set number of times using an attack before it becomes stale?
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2,429
I've watched Smash 4 tournament videos were the announcers seemed to know when an attack became stale. How does one tell? Is there some visual indicator that I'm missing? Or a set number of times using an attack before it becomes stale?
An attack becomes stale after the first, third? And sixth? Time you use it. There is also a stale moves list apparently, so only a certain number of moves can be stale at a time.

There was a thread on reddit about this I believe, but I haven't seen one on SB.
 

LieSander

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
16
Moves must connect (i.e. deal damage to opponents) to be entered in the staling queue, that contains the 9 most recent moves that you have landed on an opponent, with 1 being the most recent, and 9 being the oldest. When the queue is full and another move connects, the oldest move, 9, on the list is removed.

For every time a move is listed in the staling queue, it is slightly weaker in damage and knockback (by how much idk exactly). Take for example sheik's fair. If it isn't one of the 9 moves on the staling queue, it deals 5% (sweetspot). Since sheik relies heavily on this move, it is often in the queue at least 3 or more times. As it is spammed and hits, the damage goes down to 3. Because of this, tinder combos don't tend to do a lot of damage for all the fair spamming that is required.

Now, this isn't to say staling is bad, as the reduced knockback allows for more combo potential at higher percents. Consider sheik's d throw. At kill percent, it can confirm into an up air, but after a certain threshold, it is no longer guaranteed (and thus her 50/50 is born). By staling d throw a bit, it extends the % range where up air is guaranteed and kills.

The general rule of thumb is that you want to use strong, killing moves (Fox up smash) only when you know they would kill, so that it actually DOES kill them (no staling). Conversely, combo moves tend to connect multiple times and are staled, naturally increasing their combo potential at the cost of damage.
 
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Gotmilk0112

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
151
I know how stale moves work, I'm wondering how people are able to tell when a move is stale while watching a match.

Are they just really good at keeping mental notes of which attacks were used and how many times, or what?
 
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