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that would depend on the frequency of a good stage being made relative to the bad ones. If there's a, say, 1 in 3 chance of the stage generated being competitive material, it might be worth it.
Better idea
Yeah... I think we should wait at least until we get to test it a bit.
maybe it takes custom stages shared with the world and gives them a Mario Maker skin? In that case it would be almost trivial to turn it into a legal stage, maybe replicating Meta Crystal or PM's Pokemon Stadium or Fountain or Brawl Yoshis's Island or something
ParanoidDrone
I think you're reading a bit too much into that line. It literally says in the trailer that the layout changes every time you play on the stage. The bit about "parts and layouts" to me refers to the features of the stage, i.e. SMM levels are composed of several different stage "parts" and this aspect is carried over into Smash.
Fundamentally, the problem with walkoffs is that they encourage an absurd risk-reward situation. If I have the stock lead and some rage, I can just hang out near the blastzone on Eldin and wait for the timer to force you to come to me, at which point the risk-reward is phenomenally skewed. With temporary walkoffs, camping the walkoff necessarily is countered by just waiting, at which point the stage transforms and the player camping is forced into a bad position, usually offstage or about to be offstage.
In theory, like any stage elements, walkoffs would add competitive depth to the game... if it weren't for how degenerate the gameplay on permanent walkoffs got. This degeneracy is not present on temporary walkoffs, however.
Just to name the most obvious factor: CS's first transformation is among the smallest on the stagelist and has an uneven ground. These are factors that Pikachu loves in a lot of matchups.
I disagree, the degenracy shifts from "risk a stupid death everytime you approach" to "camp until the unfavorable risk goes away". Even if it's in a more acceptable way this paradigm still rewards the players for avoiding combat which in my opinion is a big "never" in any fighting game. Kind of like I think no player should be rewarded by RNG alone, but I know I'm the only one wanting Halberd banned.
And does this kind of strategic advantage outweight the fact that in the second phase you'll spend as much time as you spenjt benefiting from the first phase ? That's the question I'm asking.
You don't play or watch a lot of Marvel, do you? By which I mean Marvel vs. Capcom 2 or UMVC3. Either one would show quite clearly how runaway is a viable (in Marvel 2 nearly omnipresent) strategy in two of the most fast-paced and exciting-to-watch fighters. FChamp is one of the top players, and his main strategy against "big body" teams is essentially running away, completely outstripping their movement with Magneto and forcing them into a no-win scenario.
I have dropped matches and sets because of misfires and 9s. Luigi's random chance of getting a better recovery and killing very early, or Game & Watch's chances of instakilling you with a move are far more egregious than anything on Halberd's combo cannon. You can say that this isn't "RNG alone", but all of Halberd's hazards have a long warning period, to the point where it's absolutely unreasonable to claim that any player hit by them was hit because of RNG alone.
Second phase is pretty great for Pikachu too - he can run, camp, use the hitbox-extending qualities of the statues, and his bthrow is actually legitimately dangerous on walkoffs. It doesn't matter, though. It's a situation you have to adapt to, which is what makes it valuable. The fact that one phase produces a subjectively undesirable (but not broken in the context of the stage as a whole) game state makes no difference.
YES. Lylat needs to be a starter instead of Dreamland. DL being a starter means you basically get 2 Battlefields in a selection of 5, which really sucks if you don't want BF for your character. It just doesnt seem fair. With Lylat, every starter has a different layout and distinct advantages and disadvantages for each playstyle, and that's 100x better for a starter selection than BF and DL.
Dude I love that stage. If it weren't for the urchins and icicles I'd be pushing for its legality
Town and City?! why? did they already ban Halberd, Delfino, and Castle?
what's their argument? I can literally only think of two issues with the stage: the platforms of death (when they leave during the transition) and the low ceiling and neither are that big a deal
FLSS system was used.
where was Dreamland? I mostly like this list otherwise (KJ and Wuhu = <3 ) but skyloft and PS2 are kinda pushing it. But it's still really good and I am jealous
Well... lets say that TO's have been a bit... Lazy I guess? Well they are thinking about adding it to the list atm, but then it has to replace something. Sadly FLSS doesn't work with 14 stages.
It can replace either skyloft or PS2, I don't think either stage should be there right now. But idk, maybe they know more than I do
Personally I would swap either PS2 with Dreamland. Other than that it's awesome some areas are actually expanding their stage lists.
MrGame&Rock
If you look back far enough in the thread, I used to think Slyloft was the best stage in the game bar none, but the building hitboxes have since turned me off of the stage for competitive purposes. I agree about PS2 though, and a skyloft without those hazards would be flawless for competition. I don't mind a stage list with skyloft on it, but I wouldn't try to take a match there as long as those hitboxes existSkyloft is a good stage for competition, PS2 is a ****ing excellent stage for all purposes except competition. Problem solved
The hitboxes are pretty non-intrusive, you're only going to get hit by them in a situation where on a "normal" stage you would be very close to the blast zone. If the problem is the fact that they hit characters who are in disadvantage (aka knocked close to the blast zone, possibly about to die) then the hazards are comparable to Yoshi's Island: Brawl, where the platform saves people trying to recover. If anything, this is more balanced as they get hit back towards the stage but also receive damage + hitstun.
Replacing PS2 with DL64 would be the way to go imo. Skyloft is just a really nice stage and the hitboxes are not much of a problem. PS2 is also nice, but it has some issues I guess.
my problem is unpredictable hazards, those that come out of nowhere, and halberd's are about as discreet as Swiper from Dora.
PS2's hazards are predictable, but that doesnt make the air transformation anywhere near okay. (Not to mention the other ones. Ice and those goddam slippery shoes traction, Electric making everything but a small platform in the middle unfit for combat, Rock's pretty ok i guess)
This is not the problem. There's nothing wrong with making a game state have different conditions and certain tools working better or worse on that state.
This is also not the problem. Ground game is too weak in this game anyways, and it's nice to have to rely on it for once. Juggling is harder to avoid but not disturbingly so.
Funnily I don't mind PS2 or Kongo Jungle because they have a clear and defined role in the stagelist, having 3 traveling stages, 2 transforming stages, 2 long flat stages and only one BF like is a clear lack of consistency.
-if you don't want to play on a stage with a solid platform you have to waste 8 strikes (which is impossible).
I too have yet to see anything massively egregious about Peaches Castle. I've seen the wedges completely turn a game around because someone managed a tech @ 150+%. Seems like that rewards player skill to me. And i've seen the bumper interfere with something like Kirby or Charizards up-throws, but it seems like such a minor thing when considering the issues in other stages.
On day one when testing it out, I remember specifically that you would take the damage for hitting it, but the aftermath of it was different. Curiously, Kirby had merely fazed right through it on the way down and wouldn't receive knock back upon collision whereas Charizard would take the damage as well as get knocked away as if hitting it normally, but yeah, it definitely interrupts his animation going down while it doesn't seem to be the case as the animation takes either of the characters upward.
If you want your stage to move, you have to spend two strikes.
