Stage control at high percents

[Freikugel]

This is a problem I've been having recently. After entering high percents, it's impossible to regain control of the stage.

I just shut down. Every attack knocks me into the air, leaving me susceptible to aerials, and worse yet, I can't even touch the opponent. Generally, I get nailed by a smash/aerial at 170%. I'm not making the most of the stock, and I put myself at an automatic disadvantage for leaving my opponent in rage mode. It's led to many painful comebacks.

Basically, it turns into an endurance test that stalls out the clock while human error slowly catches up to me. .-.

This isn't an issue with off-stage recovery, nor surviving. Right now I resort to PK Thunder camping and dash attacks + maybe a follow-up, but it gets pretty predictable pretty fast and I'll just be punished; I don't want to risk the stock.

I also know it's a specific issue I have with Ness. Compare with my Shulk, who has similar survivability... But can easily tack on a good chunk of damage to start me off.

(First thread creation, btw. Am I cool now? .-.)

 

[Noa.]

My favorite ways to regain stage control is with fthrow, nair, or pk fire. PK fire is to punish them for heavily committing to an attack. You can land a grab if you read a shield or they mispace an attack on your shield. Nair is one of our best OoS options and you can also short hop nair spot dodges.

 

[Eagleye893]

I would try to make the most use of your grabs by playing just outside your opponent's range. PKT is not the best option when you're trying to rack up damage on lower percent opponents. Instead, I would try to space full-range grounded PK-Fires, because they have a higher potential of followup if they do hit. If you can't DThrow into a combo, try FThrow or UThrow into a PKT. You can still DThrow and do other things besides try to follow up directly (ie run beneath them and PKT or PKFlash, or wait a bit and NAir). DTilt is a bit risky because your opponent can sometimes just hit you with a kill move, but if you're confident enough you can try and use that to chain into grabs or NAir/FTilt.

Playing passively is more or less correct, but attempting to set up Ness' combo-potential moves where possible (which can be rare) will help to rack as much damage before losing a stock. You can even try for decently unsafe mix-ups when following combo starter moves to try and maximize damage.

 

[Ranias]

This is a problem I've been having recently. After entering high percents, it's impossible to regain control of the stage.

I just shut down. Every attack knocks me into the air, leaving me susceptible to aerials, and worse yet, I can't even touch the opponent. Generally, I get nailed by a smash/aerial at 170%. I'm not making the most of the stock, and I put myself at an automatic disadvantage for leaving my opponent in rage mode. It's led to many painful comebacks.

Basically, it turns into an endurance test that stalls out the clock while human error slowly catches up to me. .-.

This isn't an issue with off-stage recovery, nor surviving. Right now I resort to PK Thunder camping and dash attacks + maybe a follow-up, but it gets pretty predictable pretty fast and I'll just be punished; I don't want to risk the stock.

I also know it's a specific issue I have with Ness. Compare with my Shulk, who has similar survivability... But can easily tack on a good chunk of damage to start me off.

(First thread creation, btw. Am I cool now? .-.)

Try to get back to standing on the stage ASAP, being anywhere else gives you a disadvantage. Once you are back, you will need to play defensively. Zone hard with max range PK Fire (pivoting the PK Fire can help with this). Counter predictable aerial approaches with PK Thunder. Follow up with combos as best as you can without putting yourself in a position to be KOd.

 

[Freikugel]

On the whole, I've applied all your counsel, and it... works. My win rate's risen exponentially and I still retain my survivability. Thanks for everything, yeah.

Allow me to disregard comments on PK Fire. I totally forgot to mention that.

My favorite ways to regain stage control is with fthrow, nair, or pk fire. PK fire is to punish them for heavily committing to an attack. You can land a grab if you read a shield or they mispace an attack on your shield. Nair is one of our best OoS options and you can also short hop nair spot dodges.

Anyway, I honestly find Fair more reliable than Nair. For that reason I replaced dash attacks with Fairs since there's a decreased likelihood of being punished. I also began implementing short hop Nairs into my battle style, and it's helped me immensely.

I would try to make the most use of your grabs by playing just outside your opponent's range. PKT is not the best option when you're trying to rack up damage on lower percent opponents. Instead, I would try to space full-range grounded PK-Fires, because they have a higher potential of followup if they do hit. If you can't DThrow into a combo, try FThrow or UThrow into a PKT. You can still DThrow and do other things besides try to follow up directly (ie run beneath them and PKT or PKFlash, or wait a bit and NAir). DTilt is a bit risky because your opponent can sometimes just hit you with a kill move, but if you're confident enough you can try and use that to chain into grabs or NAir/FTilt.

Playing passively is more or less correct, but attempting to set up Ness' combo-potential moves where possible (which can be rare) will help to rack as much damage before losing a stock. You can even try for decently unsafe mix-ups when following combo starter moves to try and maximize damage.

That's another reason I prefer Fair over Nair. I relegated PKT to just force encounters, and my hit rate with Utilt has risen considerably. I'll diversify my grab follow-ups with what you recommended too.

Try to get back to standing on the stage ASAP, being anywhere else gives you a disadvantage. Once you are back, you will need to play defensively. Zone hard with max range PK Fire (pivoting the PK Fire can help with this). Counter predictable aerial approaches with PK Thunder. Follow up with combos as best as you can without putting yourself in a position to be KOd.

"Try to get back to standing on the stage ASAP, being anywhere else gives you a disadvantage. [...]without putting yourself in a position to be KOd." That about sums up all the trouble I've had. c:

Of PKT, Nair, Fair or Usmash, which would you say are better options in warding off aerial approaches? All work, but I've stuck to Usmash and Nair. :/

 

[Ranias]

Of PKT, Nair, Fair or Usmash, which would you say are better options in warding off aerial approaches? All work, but I've stuck to Usmash and Nair. :/

PKT or shield grab is safest. N-Air, U-Air, or Up Smash if you can sneak it in.