SSBU... Sakurai still let us PM players down

[BRLNK88]

Whelp... I guess I'm still playing Legacy XP for the foreseeable future.
Wavedashing confirmed to not exist in SSBU despite directional air dodge, wavelanding exists but sucks, no L-cancel, dash dancing exists but isn't that useful.
It's basically a glorified Brawl plus as there is confirmed to be more gravity leading to longer combos.

 

[Nohbl]

no L-cancel

People need to remember that we only care about this because as opposed to almost every other fighting game, Smash has landing lag on aerials period.

Personally, my end game Smash would be Project M mechanics (with a lot of fine-tuning) crossed with Brawl Minus character development. If you've never witnessed Brawl Minus Dedede, you don't know the full potential of Smash.
It would be fun if we could put together wishlists in this thread. The Smash Switch forum is full of Sakurai fanboys and mods who have made it into a complete hugbox; really difficult to get a decent discussion going if you have controversial stuff to say.

As an aside, I don't think Sakurai makes all bad decisions---just a lot of them.
Bringing back ALL of the cast is a bit questionable if he doesn't intend to change anything

Spoiler

Pichu, for instance, would be unnecessary if like traditional fighters Smash had a handicap mechanic; but at the same time, one could take a page from Brawl Minus here and make Pichu good on its own

, but having as much character diversity as possible should be applauded. He gets some of the original music right sometimes too---

Spoiler

I love "Tomorrow Is Mine", and the tr4sh edit isn't bad, for example; though I wan't sold initially on Cynthia's battle theme remix, I came to love that too so much I'm loathe to let anything else play on that stage

.

I don't think either Project M or Brawl Minus are perfect games. On the agenda is balance changes---no nerfs, but buffs to characters who are struggling. It would not hurt to start treating alternate movesets more seriously, like with Project Ganondorf, or try to implement Customs.
Indeed, those games are good enough as they are now, but it's clear that Smash is no longer going to progress (as long as Sakurai is in charge) unless the fans bravely push it forward themselves. Legacy is a large step in the right direction but it still holds back.

 

[Venclaire]

Whelp... I guess I'm still playing Legacy XP for the foreseeable future.
Wavedashing confirmed to not exist in SSBU despite directional air dodge, wavelanding exists but sucks, no L-cancel, dash dancing exists but isn't that useful.
It's basically a glorified Brawl plus as there is confirmed to be more gravity leading to longer combos.

The dash dancing on some characters is actually kind of crazy. Little Mac's looks absolutely exceptional, along with Sheik. Obviously not as good as Melee, but there is still some merit in it.

The "No L-cancel" thing doesn't really matter that much, as most moves have Melee L-cancelled landing lag anyways. I believe Ganon's Nair has under 8 frames of landing lag, Marth's fair has something like 6, Ryu's fair has 6. They essentially have L-cancelled tier landing lag, but without the extra button press.

 

[JadeRock 5599]

Yeah I think they would rather just not have the extra button to press considering they tried to make short hop air attacks easier to perform.

 

[Nothingbutgreatness]

Whelp... I guess I'm still playing Legacy XP for the foreseeable future.
Wavedashing confirmed to not exist in SSBU despite directional air dodge, wavelanding exists but sucks, no L-cancel, dash dancing exists but isn't that useful.
It's basically a glorified Brawl plus as there is confirmed to be more gravity leading to longer combos.

When you say “it’s basically a glorified brawl” you kinda sound cheap And kiddy. Wave landing does exist but it’s Decent, every aerial has lag reduced, dash dancing is useful but Its used differently. You don’t mention the game isn’t faster or has more to it then smash 4, brawl and 64. I understand it’s your opinion but, you sound So ungrateful.

 

[xgore]

perfect pivots confirmed or no?

 

[Zoa]

Ultimate looks okayish which is why I’m picking it up. Probably won’t bother with it in my local scene though.

-DD being back is super helpful.
-Frame three jump squats coupled with solid landing lag, around the same as an L-cancel, is pretty solid overall. Helps a lot of characters out.
-Been watching ZeRo talk about it pre-release. He’s been saying ladder combos are gutted which reduces jank like Rosaluma killing off the top at 20%. Says recovery options are gutted across the board. I support that because you should be at a major disadvantage off stage. And with combo throws being removed from most of the cast, it should be a lot less combo -> uair the game. Solid decisions overall.

But yeah, rage and balloon knockback are really dumb decisions. As R3D3MON said, balloon knockback looks to screw over juggles and kill set ups. Especially since so many moves have such tremendous knockback like in Smash 4. Scared of how it’s gonna impact the game’s meta.

 

[JadeRock 5599]

I thought balloon knockback really only occurs at higher % to avoid dumb combos. Low % combos are there still.

 

[Zoa]

Oh God. **** that. Not getting Ultimate if true. Removing the ability to cross up is another dumb decision. Less safety for shield pressure overall. That’s so stupid. Pivots really aren’t a big deal, but removing safety in pressuring is absurd.

 

[Bleck]

are you ****in' people really still here postin' this ****

 

[gramkracka22]

Been playing a lot of ultimate. It's fun but could be so much better with a couple small changes.

Combo game is almost non-existant (melee/PM players will be let down once again)

 

[roymustang1990-]

Never liked the concept of L cancel.glad it's gone.

A n d crossups are still in.you just to jump over your opponent to get it now or roll behind the m

 

[Zoa]

Been playing a lot of ultimate. It's fun but could be so much better with a couple small changes.

Combo game is almost non-existant (melee/PM players will be let down once again)

Wait, how is it nonexistent? Can you go into detail some?

 

[Idon]

I've made my peace with Project M.
It's a beautiful miracle that'll only happen once, and while that's depressing, it is what it is.

 

[gramkracka22]

Wait, how is it nonexistent? Can you go into detail some?

Lack of hitstun plus high knockback means very little in this game is a true combo even at low percentages.

This is a good video of two players playing their characters well. The game is fun and fast but combo game is bleh compared to melee/PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBZlcmBETRs

 

[Zoa]

Lack of hitstun plus high knockback means very little in this game is a true combo even at low percentages.

This is a good video of two players playing their characters well. The game is fun and fast but combo game is bleh compared to melee/PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBZlcmBETRs

I don't think it's necessarily a lack of hitstun. Each game after 64 uses a near similar hitstun multiplier. In fact, Brawl and Melee have the same hitstun multiplier. Smash 4 is just a bit different because hitstun lasts one frame less, and there's some other things changed as well involving electric attacks. I think it may be due to just how balloon knockback works, and when compounded with how high knockback is still coming from Smash 4, it looks like follow ups are gonna be hard after watching the video. Also hitstun cancel might still be a thing after the last two games. >>;

Good thing I'm not taking the game seriously in the competitive sense. It has everything needed to succeed minus the most important thing: combos. Why is it when Saks always does something right, something else affects the core gameplay and makes it worse? >>;

 

[RPGsFTW]

I would like to say real quick that I am, unfortunately, not too happy with how Ultimate turned out. I love a lot of the characters, but the way the game overall feels, along with mechanics that I straight up despise (magnet hands on the ledge, RAPID FIRE JABBING, etc), have already frustrated me to no end. It even has some pretty awful input lag, and that alone is a big issue. The mechanics lead into many instances where I feel like I've been cheated or situations where something happens that shouldn't have happened.


At this rate, PM is the only Smash game I truly consider to be the best of the best. It really has all that we deserve, and it's even fun casually. The character mods, good or not, are also genuinely fun.

My only issue is that I'm not sure if there are any people actively playing PM Legacy on Anther's Ladder. I just want to enjoy characters like Waluigi and Geno in my favorite Smash game.

 

[Nohbl]

enjoy characters like Waluigi

it doesn't sound like you've tried Brawl Minus yet.
I'd recommend it.

 

[Deleted member]

"This game is different, I'm gonna whine about it!!"

Grow up.

If you wanna play PM, play PM, but was this thread really necessary?

 

[osby]

Maybe Sakurai wouldn't "let PM players down" if they were satisfied with anything that doesn't solely cater to them.

 

[RPGsFTW]

it doesn't sound like you've tried Brawl Minus yet.
I'd recommend it.

I most definitely have and I don't like it much. Never was too into it minus some occasional fun times with DK's Down B spawning barrels, lol.

"This game is different, I'm gonna whine about it!!"

Grow up.

If you wanna play PM, play PM, but was this thread really necessary?

Maybe Sakurai wouldn't "let PM players down" if they were satisfied with anything that doesn't solely cater to them.

God forbid someone prefers a different game than you and has a different opinion, right? Here's your (yous), boiz.

 

[Deleted member]

I most definitely have and I don't like it much. Never was too into it minus some occasional fun times with DK's Down B spawning barrels, lol.


God forbid someone prefers a different game than you and has a different opinion, right? Here's your (yous), boiz.

Hating things that are popular doesn't make you a more interesting person.

 

[Nohbl]

So are we just gonna pretend this is /v/ now

 

[Deleted member]

So are we just gonna pretend this is /v/ now

what's /v/? something 4chan?

 

[RPGsFTW]

Hating things that are popular doesn't make you a more interesting person.

I think it's obvious that no one said hate, and no one cares what you think of us.

I came here to vent frustration about Ultimate because, believe it or not, it's not perfect. I'm still currently playing it, but so are Melee pros who are going to stick to Melee because it's better in their eyes. And literally nothing is wrong with that. I'm not sure how you found this thread or why, but you didn't need to come here to bother people for no reason.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's obvious that no one said hate, and no one cares what you think of us.

I came here to vent frustration about Ultimate because, believe it or not, it's not perfect. I'm still currently playing it, but so are Melee pros who are going to stick to Melee because it's better in their eyes. And literally nothing is wrong with that. I'm not sure how you found this thread or why, but you didn't need to come here to bother people for no reason.

It doesn't sound like you cane here to vent, it sounds a lot more like you wanted a circlejerk where you could talk about why Melee/PM are and always will be better, because "muh Wavedashing," without ever even trying to give the game a proper chance, or considering the options it gives players to be a legitimately good game and competitively viable.

It's funny, cause other Melee pros, like Armada, M2K, and Leffen are all sinking their teeth into the game, and giving themselves a solid two months with it before they decide whether or not to pursue it long term. Because they know judging a game that early without giving it a chance is downright dumb. Yet somehow, here you are, certain that the game is bad, and that Sakurai "let you down." Because it doesn't play identically to your favorite game.

It's true that Ultimate isn't perfect, but neither is Melee, and neither is PM. Ultimate us DIFFERENT. And it's about time you accepted that Sakurai is NEVER going to make another game like Melee EVER again. Melee is one of a kind, same way Third Strike is one of a kind, same way Accent Core Plus is one of a kind, same way MvC2 is one of a kind. There's no need to remake what already exists. The most important thing is that the game is FUN at a competitive level, which at the very least, Ultimate is most definitely trying to be.

If this isn't good enough for you, well then, tough ****. Go play Melee, but being elitist about it doesn't make you look "cool," especially when professional players still haven't made up their minds. It honestly just makes you look like an entitled immature child who jumped onto the Melee bandwagon cause he thought it was cool, not someone who genuinely loves competitive Smash. Again, grow up.

Abd this is coming from someone whose number 1 favorite game of all time IS Super Smash Bros Melee btw...

If you wanna have a discussion about the specific mechanics in Melee and Ultimate, where we compare and contrast them, and the options available between them, I'm sure myself, and many others would be more than glad to. Granted, that requires you actually play Ultimate enough to a level where you understand all ITS mechanics and tech, not just sit on the sidelines complaining it's not Melee...

One final note: I love the "better in their eyes so they'll go back to it" yes, because you somehow gained the ability to read people's minds. The game isn't perfect. But from the looks of things, at least to me, so far it looks like Armada, Leffen, and M2K are all really enjoying the game.

 

[Zoa]

It doesn't sound like you cane here to vent, it sounds a lot more like you wanted a circlejerk where you could talk about why Melee/PM are and always will be better, because "muh Wavedashing," without ever even trying to give the game a proper chance, or considering the options it gives players to be a legitimately good game and competitively viable.

It's funny, cause other Melee pros, like Armada, M2K, and Leffen are all sinking their teeth into the game, and giving themselves a solid two months with it before they decide whether or not to pursue it long term. Because they know judging a game that early without giving it a chance is downright dumb. Yet somehow, here you are, certain that the game is bad, and that Sakurai "let you down." Because it doesn't play identically to your favorite game.

It's true that Ultimate isn't perfect, but neither is Melee, and neither is PM. Ultimate us DIFFERENT. And it's about time you accepted that Sakurai is NEVER going to make another game like Melee EVER again. Melee is one of a kind, same way Third Strike is one of a kind, same way Accent Core Plus is one of a kind, same way MvC2 is one of a kind. There's no need to remake what already exists. The most important thing is that the game is FUN at a competitive level, which at the very least, Ultimate is most definitely trying to be.

If this isn't good enough for you, well then, tough ****. Go play Melee, but being elitist about it doesn't make you look "cool," especially when professional players still haven't made up their minds. It honestly just makes you look like an entitled immature child who jumped onto the Melee bandwagon cause he thought it was cool, not someone who genuinely loves competitive Smash. Again, grow up.

Abd this is coming from someone whose number 1 favorite game of all time IS Super Smash Bros Melee btw...

If you wanna have a discussion about the specific mechanics in Melee and Ultimate, where we compare and contrast them, and the options available between them, I'm sure myself, and many others would be more than glad to. Granted, that requires you actually play Ultimate enough to a level where you understand all ITS mechanics and tech, not just sit on the sidelines complaining it's not Melee...

One final note: I love the "better in their eyes so they'll go back to it" yes, because you somehow gained the ability to read people's minds. The game isn't perfect. But from the looks of things, at least to me, so far it looks like Armada, Leffen, and M2K are all really enjoying the game.

Way to assume a lot of things on his behalf dude. Also way to put lots of words in his mouth. You literally have done nothing but been antagonistic in this thread.

It's funny how you like to complain about other people complaining. Do you listen to yourself? If the user believes they've given it a shot, and have had enough with it, then they're done with it. Some kind of arbitrary time limit with professionals isn't the same metric by which you should give other people. I gave it a shot. Didn't like it and sold it. Unlocked every character, and put in some serious lab time. I even mapped out Lucario's aura gain and posted it in the appropriate area for Lucario in Ultimate. It isn't my thing either. Different people reach their decisions at different times. Trying to compare us to the top Melee professionals is clearly asinine logic.

Also who said anything about us having to accept there will never be another Melee? This is Project M. Not Melee. It sounds like you're one of those random other people riding the hate bandwagon so hard that you like to call out other Melee players on their preferences...when this isn't even the right game lmao. Last I checked it was a thread about preferences, and the guy you're calling out said it is alright if you like Ultimate FFS. Like literally he is being civil about peoples' preferences unlike you. When he was using the word "perfect", the context of his use of the word was how it was perfect for him. Not the super duper ultimate perfect game of all time that is an objective truth you seem to be so riled up over.

Where was he elitist? The only elitist in here is you again FFS. You're literally making arguments NO ONE has made, you are assuming things on that user's behalf, and even putting words in their mouth. You're acting so toxic for no reason.

And I doubt you're the kind of individual who would be open to having a civil discourse when it came to mechanics discussions. First, you can't get the game right. Second you literally came in here to insult people, and all you've done is act antagonistic. Third, your arguments have no merit because all you can do is put words in this user's mouth when they clearly said that it's cool if you prefer x game over another, or put these arguments that were never made into place, and used that as the crux of your argument. All you've done is used the "muh wavedash" and "Melee circlejerk/bandwagon" arguments which are just ad hominems. You clearly can't make an argument to save your life, nor should any of us take you seriously in here for acting like a complete asshat.

 

[Zoa]

Maybe Sakurai wouldn't "let PM players down" if they were satisfied with anything that doesn't solely cater to them.

Or, just consider this, maybe the game just fell short in quite a few ways for a lot of people? Why is it always this stupid assumption about how everything has to cater a certain group of people? Like literally can people with this toxic mindset NOT make a serious logical fallacy for once?

 

[Zoa]

Hey, don't respond to those kids. They are basically trolls.

One is all about PM conspiracy theories and being an apologist about bullying and the other just ****posts against good smash games anyway, let them circlejerk about "le meleelitist" until they go back to their SmUsh/Sm4sh caves or w/e.

Yeah, I just can't stupidity or hypocrites. They're not worth bothering with if they can't seem to look past these narrow-minded views.

 

[Zoa]

Yeah they have a history posting dumb stuff here, I fell into the trap of responding before and it's a hell of a rabbit hole.

Nohbl You are sooooo correct LMAO

Will remember my dude. Thanks for looking out.

 

[Deleted member]

Will remember my dude. Thanks for looking out.

Tbf fair Im kinda siding with @ManlySpirit

Not for his argument, but because being judgemental about a game that JUST came out a few days ago isn't really giving said game a chance. Hell I really enjoy playing with some of my high school buds(speaking of which...)

And just a note, you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. But don't circlejerk(the last 4 posts you and R3D3MON made are circlejerking anyway, at least that's what I think.)

Lastly, just because someone has posted "trash" before, doesn't mean they are still posting "trash". Lots of debates end with both sides misinterpreting what the other side said.

Im also not going to comment on whether PM and Melee are better, because I never will play those games.(where the hell do you think I'll find a Gamecube? Target for god's sake?)

 

[Zoa]

Tbf fair Im kinda siding with @ManlySpirit

Not for his argument, but because being judgemental about a game that JUST came out a few days ago isn't really giving said game a chance. Hell I really enjoy playing with some of my high school buds(speaking of which...)

And just a note, you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. But don't circlejerk(the last 4 posts you and R3D3MON made are circlejerking anyway, at least that's what I think.)

Lastly, just because someone has posted "trash" before, doesn't mean they are still posting "trash". Lots of debates end with both sides misinterpreting what the other side said.

Im also not going to comment on whether PM and Melee are better, because I never will play those games.(where the hell do you think I'll find a Gamecube? Target for god's sake?)

That's fine. You're entitled to that belief. I gave it a fair shot I would say, but you need to understand that people reach decisions at different points than others. Comparing us to the Melee professionals to get his point across doesn't do him any favors. We aren't them. Also the other user being berated by Manly explicitly stated they're still playing Ultimate despite being disappointed in how the game turned out (post 27). I'm still playing it on and off on a friend's version when we meet up as well. Neither of us have ditched the game.

Also I'm not participating in any circlejerk. The last four posts between us, prior to your's, were about the individuals' in question behaviors. I'm not above anyone, but I don't condone aggressive behavior with the reason behind it being completely unfounded and toxic. There was literally no point in osby or Manly's posts aside from being antagonistic. Calling out their behavior is completely fair game if that's how they're gonna act, and with R3D3MON letting me know about their past behavior, I'm washing my hands of these two for good because I know I can trust what R3D3MON says based on past interaction with them. That was the point of the four post long interaction.

Btw PM is a mod of Brawl. You can emulate it like I do, or just get a Wii or Wii U to play it.

 

[Deleted member]

That's fine. You're entitled to that belief. I gave it a fair shot I would say, but you need to understand that people reach decisions at different points than others. Comparing us to the Melee professionals to get his point across doesn't do him any favors. We aren't them. Also the other user being berated by Manly explicitly stated they're still playing Ultimate despite being disappointed in how the game turned out (post 27). I'm still playing it on and off on a friend's version when we meet up as well. Neither of us have ditched the game.

Also I'm not participating in any circlejerk. The last four posts between us, prior to your's, were about the individuals' in question behaviors. I'm not above anyone, but I don't condone aggressive behavior with the reason behind it being completely unfounded and toxic. There was literally no point in osby or Manly's posts aside from being antagonistic. Calling out their behavior is completely fair game if that's how they're gonna act, and with R3D3MON letting me know about their past behavior, I'm washing my hands of these two for good because I know I can trust what R3D3MON says based on past interaction with them. That was the point of the four post long interaction.

Btw PM is a mod of Brawl. You can emulate it like I do, or just get a Wii or Wii U to play it.

"Also I'm not participating in any circlejerk."

Circlejerk-(slang) Any group or group activity indulging in mutual gratification.

I'm pretty sure you were circlejerking.

"but I don't condone aggressive behavior with the reason behind it being completely unfounded and toxic."

Quite frankly, I think that @ManlySpirit was trying to be polite. I think he went a Bittt overboard, but my point still stands.

"and with R3D3MON letting me know about their past behavior, "

He never even gave any proof. all he said, and i quote, was this,

"Yeah they have a history posting dumb stuff here, I fell into the trap of responding before and it's a hell of a rabbit hole."

Where is the proof? He was making an statement, that for all I know is likely to be false.

"I'm washing my hands of these two for good because I know I can trust what R3D3MON says based on past interaction with them."

What "past interaction?" Can you elaborate on that?




"Btw PM is a mod of Brawl. You can emulate it like I do, or just get a Wii or Wii U to play it."

Modding isn't really my thing(for electronics anyway) and frankly anything even remotely related to Brawl, count me out.

 

[Zoa]

"Also I'm not participating in any circlejerk."

Circlejerk-(slang) Any group or group activity indulging in mutual gratification.

I'm pretty sure you were circlejerking.

"but I don't condone aggressive behavior with the reason behind it being completely unfounded and toxic."

Quite frankly, I think that @ManlySpirit was trying to be polite. I think he went a Bittt overboard, but my point still stands.

"and with R3D3MON letting me know about their past behavior, "

He never even gave any proof. all he said, and i quote, was this,

"Yeah they have a history posting dumb stuff here, I fell into the trap of responding before and it's a hell of a rabbit hole."

Where is the proof? He was making an statement, that for all I know is likely to be false.

"I'm washing my hands of these two for good because I know I can trust what R3D3MON says based on past interaction with them."

What "past interaction?" Can you elaborate on that?




"Btw PM is a mod of Brawl. You can emulate it like I do, or just get a Wii or Wii U to play it."

Modding isn't really my thing(for electronics anyway) and frankly anything even remotely related to Brawl, count me out.

Wasn't really indulging in mutual gratification. Can't say I was feeling satisfied in any way tbqh. We both pointed out said behavior, and I took his advice. Can't really say it was a circlejerk based on that.

How can you say he was being polite based on post history? It's clearly antagonistic behavior based on how he is coming across, and based on his arguments, and the context in which he lobs insults. And what point stands still?

Again, I said I trust R3D3MON. If I want proof, I'll ask for it, but given how these two post, it wouldn't surprise me since this is a common thing with people who have this mentality based on experience. In real life and on the Internet. And you do realize that I said "past interaction" when it comes to R3D3MON, correct? How can I elaborate on it if I'm not the one who hasn't had the experience? You should ask R3D3MON to elaborate on it. I said I simply trust him, and what he has said. And if this what you're trying to get at, I will say then I simply don't want to know these individuals, and I can look up their post history if I so choose to prove this either right or wrong. It isn't a hard thing to do, but this doesn't surprise me in the slightest if what R3D3MON has said is true.

Also you just need a 2 GB SD card. It doesn't directly mod the game. It makes the game play more like Melee, but a combination of Brawl, Melee, and PM only tech.

 

[Fell God]

Melee is better than PM

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, is R3D3MON saying he knows me? Because I genuinely have no idea who he is, and now I'm curious.

Zoa

Coming to the Ultimate boards to rain on people's parades because you're disappointed Sakurai didn't do exactly what you wanted and not expecting people to call you put on it is downright dumb, doubly so when you're not willing to give the game a chance. You don't wanna have a discussion, you just wanna complain. Again, this thread is unnecessary.

If you prefer PM. Go play PM. No one wants to hear you whine and complain over a game you had already made up your mind on hating.


EDIT: I just realized these are the PM boards, and now I feel stupid, so disregard that. I don't even know how I got here, since I came across this thread from the Ultimate boards. I blame this site's ****ty new layout.

My b, feel free to complain to your hearts desire as it's not the Ultimate boards.

That said, you're still wrong about the game being a disappointment, and should give it a proper chance before passing judgement.

Just sayian.

 

[Zoa]

Wait, is R3D3MON saying he knows me? Because I genuinely have no idea who he is, and now I'm curious.

Zoa

Coming to the Ultimate boards to rain on people's parades because you're disappointed Sakurai didn't do exactly what you wanted and not expecting people to call you put on it is downright dumb, doubly so when you're not willing to give the game a chance. You don't wanna have a discussion, you just wanna complain. Again, this thread is unnecessary.

If you prefer PM. Go play PM. No one wants to hear you whine and complain over a game you had already made up your mind on hating.


EDIT: I just realized these are the PM boards, and now I feel stupid, so disregard that. I don't even know how I got here, since I came across this thread from the Ultimate boards. I blame this site's ****ty new layout.

My b, feel free to complain to your hearts desire as it's not the Ultimate boards.

That said, you're still wrong about the game being a disappointment, and should give it a proper chance before passing judgement.

Just sayian.

Lmao. I have to make this post just once more cause of how funny this is.

I never said anything about Sakurai doing exactly what I wanted. Here's the same kind of arguments you were making earlier. And saying I don't wanna have a discussion is the pot calling the kettle black my friend. You literally complained about others complaining. You attacked others, and put words in peoples' mouths again here in this quote, and you're assuming arguments all over. Do you not see the sheer irony of your statement, dude? And last I checked I don't hate Ultimate lol. I hated the AI specifically (should've specified that earlier a bit more). I still play it on a buddy's system when he asks me to. The game is alright. Again, you're completely assuming my arguments and beliefs for me, man. That's not how you make an argument lol.

 

[Nohbl]

EDIT: I just realized these are the PM boards, and now I feel stupid, so disregard that. I don't even know how I got here, since I came across this thread from the Ultimate boards.

oof

Anyway, this has me wondering where players are going to go from here.
Being realistic, people aren't going to be satisfied with Melee and the later games' mods that exist right now forever.
At some point, there'll have to be a new game to scratch the itch, but who knows what that'll be like.

 

[Zoa]

Hey, Nohbl . How long do you think it will take for this to happen in your educated guess? Also I'm not sure how aware you are of the 64 community where you're at, but there's a guy out there who trained me in it.

 

[Nohbl]

Hey, Nohbl . How long do you think it will take for this to happen in your educated guess? Also I'm not sure how aware you are of the 64 community where you're at, but there's a guy out there who trained me in it.

I think people are starting to realize that traditional 2d Fighting Games are relics of the past and becoming more aware of the mechanics of platform fighters that set it apart, regardless of whether they admire the genre as a whole. The Fighting game genre is not dead nor dying. Interest in it is still blazing.
We're however at a moment where people are starting to crave more. But the problem is that more is not forthcoming.
The uniqueness of the Melee and modded experience still stands alone for now, as independent imitators have failed to become successors.
If a true one came just now right around the corner, I'm sure everyone would leave for it immediately.

That said. I'm not a psychic, so these are just my guesses: I don't see the level of interest in Melee and the mods existing at the level it does now when 2020 comes around. The games are invested into by an aging playerbase that will only grow less comfortable with the same-old. I imagine there's a tipping point after which one has felt they've mastered something and enjoyed it at their peak ability, where they lose interest with the thing because it has not changed and there is nothing new for the player to experience.

I don't mean change at a fundamental level---I mean nothing has been added.

There'll never be new official Project M characters, alternative movesets, nor gameplay mechanics, added on top of the old ones. The game will remain the same for the forseeable future. Once you've felt you've mastered your favored characters and all the known mechanics, that's all there is to it. There won't be any more challenges you don't already know about. You don't have to quit the game entirely, but you definitely won't invest as vigorously into it as you used to---less time, yes; less effort, maybe.

So what about new players? There's a lot that could be said about them, but the relevant one here could be looked at with regard to Melee. If you hadn't already started playing years ago, you'll probably never be at the level that the highest echelon of players are at now with an approximate level of the game's popularity/health, so why start now? Even if they pick up the games casually, that isn't enough to contribute to what we consider to be the Life of a game in this current age of video games.

Spoiler: Additional but unnecessary comments.

I still enjoy Dead Or Alive 4, an over 10 years old game, from time to time, because there's nothing like it more recent. But I don't play it as often as I used to, neither attend tournaments nor could if I wanted to for lack of existence, and more than likely am part of a fanbase which is not gaining any newcomers at all. The game is not alive, but quite dead, despite its quality and uniqueness. So it could very well happen to these Smash games.

The other part of this question is when a proper successor game will be made. We saw this decade a resurgence of the isometric RPG and the 2D pixel platformer, genres which last held relevance in the 90's and earlier. Look at Temtem, a game which tries to succeed Pokemon. They were made by people who played these as young fans, and wanted to recreate the experience when they grew older and more capable to do so. But these took around 15 years maybe to happen. So I can only assume that within a few years, work will be started by someone who grew up on peak Melee and Project M and other mods to eventually create something which will truly rival the scale, depth, and quality of those games which we will get to move on to a few years after that. That's why I say that the year 2020 is when it will feel like this process will have been set in motion.