SSBM vs SSBB: Control differences HELP (Not a Flame Thread)

[K~SAN]

Hey Guys

I know Melee is quit old now but I've just started getting serious about playing Melee.

It's funny because I only played Melee for a short while before jumping into Brawl and right now I'm just really annoyed with how Brawl plays. Reason why I rarely played Melee was that I had no one to play with at the time and left it sitting on the shelf with the rest of my games.

When Brawl came out I bought that and started playing again. I put at least 100x the amount of time playing Brawl than I did put in playing Melee.

I got fed up and decided to check out what Melee players were talking about on how superior Melee was, and after a couple of matches with my buddy, I really do understand why Melee players were so disappointed about when Brawl was released.

I'm not going to list everything that I dislike about Brawl but I can say that I finally understand what Melee players were griping about.

My problem regarding Melee is that the controls really need precise execution in order to pull off Short Hops, and Up A. I find myself jumping at times when I try to execute an Up A or Jumping too high when I try to Short Hop.

In Brawl Short Hoping and Up A are easily executed vs Melee.

My Question is, is there an easier way to pull all these techniques off? It's much harder to do in Melee any suggestion on being able to do it more efficiently or do you really need to put in the time to be able to pull off the techniques well enough?

Anyways please post any thoughts, opinions and suggestions.
thanks
Jimmy

 

[Kevin]

practice, some people short hop with control stick, some use x/y
i personally hit x controlling my thumb and pressing the button lightly so that it short hops
some people hit the bottom area of the x button which apparaently works, but i can't do that
find your own way, as for up tilts, you can move the control stick up a little bit and it won't jump, and you can tilt from that, don't move it too high up

 

[Doggalina]

One word: finesse. Up tilts and short hopping both take a degree of finesse. Up tilt is easier (you just put the stick up partially). Short hopping is tougher, toughest with characters such as Fox (who has a 2 frame jump [2/60 of a second]) and easiest with Bowser, who has a 7 frame jump. To short hop, you let go of the jump button before the character leaves the ground. It just takes practice. First get the muscle memory down then incorporate it into you game. Eventually, you'll be doing it without thinking and you can move on to harder techniques.

EDIT: I short hop by "sliding" off the X button.
EDIT: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6268917341431368191
That video will help you learn the basics for most universal ATs.

 

[2.72]

By Up A do you mean up tilt (ie tilt the control stick up on the ground and press A)? If you mean up smash or up air you should just use the C stick.

The short answer is that you should just play a bunch. Combo random level 3 CPU's if you can't play enough against people. The more you play the more comfortable you should become with the control scheme.

For the up tilt: yes, it's harder. Push the control stick up lightly and press A at the same time. If you jump you're not pushing the control stick lightly enough (don't push it all the way up). If you do the neutral A attack on the ground, you're either not pushing it up enough (unlikely) or you're pressing A right before you push the control stick up. If you up smash you're pushing the control stick too far up.

For the short hop: it's a lot harder for some characters than others. Bowser is the easiest by a substantial margin, so learning with him might be a good start. Falco is also pretty easy, and his short hop is even more useful than normal. Don't start with hard characters like Sheik or Fox. Also, do not short hop (or jump in general) with the control stick. Use X or Y (probably Y). Short hopping with the control stick is certainly possible but a lot more awkward.

EDIT: I also learned to short hop by sliding my finger off of X really fast. I've stopped now because it hurt my thumb to play a lot, but it's a fine way to learn.

 

[K~SAN]

practice, some people short hop with control stick, some use x/y
i personally hit x controlling my thumb and pressing the button lightly so that it short hops
some people hit the bottom area of the x button which apparaently works, but i can't do that
find your own way, as for up tilts, you can move the control stick up a little bit and it won't jump, and you can tilt from that, don't move it too high up

I prefer to use X to short hop. I've been practicing quit a bit and starting to get use to it but when in intense matches it gets really hard because the controls are soo sensitive.

I can't use the Up Analog it's far too difficult for me.

Overall though I'm slowly very very slowly getting use to the sensitive controls in Melee

One word: finesse. Up tilts and short hopping both take a degree of finesse. Up tilt is easier (you just put the stick up partially). Short hopping is tougher, toughest with characters such as Fox (who has a 2 frame jump [2/60 of a second]) and easiest with Bowser, who has a 7 frame jump. To short hop, you let go of the jump button before the character leaves the ground. It just takes practice. First get the muscle memory down then incorporate it into you game. Eventually, you'll be doing it without thinking and you can move on to harder techniques.

EDIT: I short hop by "sliding" off the X button.
EDIT: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6268917341431368191
That video will help you learn the basics for most universal ATs.

I've seen the videos but thanks for the links.
Controls in Melee are much harder to master vs Brawl, takes a lot of skill to really be able to push up on the Analog half way to perform an Up Tilt.

Games get intense and sometimes you accidentally jump. Brawl you can turn up analog jump off. Much easier

By Up A do you mean up tilt (ie tilt the control stick up on the ground and press A)? If you mean up smash or up air you should just use the C stick.

The short answer is that you should just play a bunch. Combo random level 3 CPU's if you can't play enough against people. The more you play the more comfortable you should become with the control scheme.

For the up tilt: yes, it's harder. Push the control stick up lightly and press A at the same time. If you jump you're not pushing the control stick lightly enough (don't push it all the way up). If you do the neutral A attack on the ground, you're either not pushing it up enough (unlikely) or you're pressing A right before you push the control stick up. If you up smash you're pushing the control stick too far up.

For the short hop: it's a lot harder for some characters than others. Bowser is the easiest by a substantial margin, so learning with him might be a good start. Falco is also pretty easy, and his short hop is even more useful than normal. Don't start with hard characters like Sheik or Fox. Also, do not short hop (or jump in general) with the control stick. Use X or Y (probably Y). Short hopping with the control stick is certainly possible but a lot more awkward.

EDIT: I also learned to short hop by sliding my finger off of X really fast. I've stopped now because it hurt my thumb to play a lot, but it's a fine way to learn.

I meant Up Tilt. After just playing a couple of random matches against the computer on easy just to practice up I realize Melee takes a lot of skill. You have to be really delicate with the controls lol.

I really appreciate the reply guys. I'll keep practicing.
It's going to be hard to get people to enjoy Melee with me but at the same time, I'd rather play Melee over Brawl.

 

[Doggalina]

Games get intense and sometimes you accidentally jump. Brawl you can turn up analog jump off. Much easier.

Just keep trying. Doing a tech by yourself is one thing; doing it in a match is another. Especially in tourney matches. That's when my nerves kicked in.

I remember when I first started really playing Falco, I'd always flub my shines after aerials and get shield grabbed to **** (I was playing a Marth). After many losses and some individual practice, I'm now able to land that easy.

 

[Wind Owl]

For Utilts, TILT the control stick. Don't like, smash it slowly like a lot of people do. You only need to tilt it ever-so-slightly to get it out, and you'll never jump that way. As for shorthops, they just take practice. Experiment with different ways of pushing the button (quick tap, flick up to down, flick right to left, etc).

 

[K~SAN]

I managed to get my girlfriend brother in tonight and play some Melee with him. He's pretty good at games and he's not bad at Melee. We both agreed the switch to Melee from Brawl was much more enjoyable.

Games were intense but I started really getting use to the sensitivity and managing to pull of up tilts a bit more accurate and doing better with my short hoping as well.

We played for about two hours, it was pretty fun, I still suck but I'm really getting the hang of it. After trying to master some of the basic techniques I can now really appreciate some of the higher players I've seen on youtube. Melee really does require a lot of skills and it's going to take hours and hours of practice just to get some of these moves right.

What makes me sad is that I've had Melee a week after it was released and rarely touched it. I just found out that I missed such an amazing game all these years :'(

 

[alex3]

I've had Melee a week after it was released and rarely touched it.

how was this even possible

 

[K~SAN]

how was this even possible

No one to play with for for a start. Then your busy with other stuff and having a huge game collection didn't help either.

 

[Doggalina]

If you ever get to go to a tournament for Melee, it'll help your game tremendously. It basically FORCED me to integrate things like wavedashing in new ways into my game. Basically, you learn how to move, punish, and not get punished. It's a trial by fire, but it's definitely worth it. Since going to our first tournament, my friends and I have been playing way better than ever before.

 

[K~SAN]

If you ever get to go to a tournament for Melee, it'll help your game tremendously. It basically FORCED me to integrate things like wavedashing in new ways into my game. Basically, you learn how to move, punish, and not get punished. It's a trial by fire, but it's definitely worth it. Since going to our first tournament, my friends and I have been playing way better than ever before.

I love competition it's an incentive to train hard and play better. Overall everyone benefits from it and gets better as time goes by.

It's too bad I only have probably 2 people to enjoy Melee with. Luckily for me they pick up games fairly easy but still though I would like to have at least 4 people to enjoy it with.

I have so many multilayer games I want to enjoy but nobody is ever interested. It just sucks.

 

[meatpopsicle]

I think it's really cool that you've just started playing Melee now and can appreciate its greatness even with Brawl out. It's an incredibly deep game, and part of this is because its controls are so precise. Unlike Brawl, you can spend hundreds of hours playing and find it so rewarding because you've gotten noticeably better and attained a greater understanding of the game; yet you still get that feeling that there's so much more you can do.

It's really hard to appreciate this game without someone who wants to enjoy it as much as you do, but just practicing getting certain techniques down can be rewarding in itself. I spent 30 minutes yesterday trying to moonwalk with Falcon and when I got five in a row I just smiled to myself. Just having one friend who is into Melee is good enough for me, but definitely check out SWF if you want more people to smash with. Where you from?

 

[K~SAN]

I think it's really cool that you've just started playing Melee now and can appreciate its greatness even with Brawl out. It's an incredibly deep game, and part of this is because its controls are so precise. Unlike Brawl, you can spend hundreds of hours playing and find it so rewarding because you've gotten noticeably better and attained a greater understanding of the game; yet you still get that feeling that there's so much more you can do.

It's really hard to appreciate this game without someone who wants to enjoy it as much as you do, but just practicing getting certain techniques down can be rewarding in itself. I spent 30 minutes yesterday trying to moonwalk with Falcon and when I got five in a row I just smiled to myself. Just having one friend who is into Melee is good enough for me, but definitely check out SWF if you want more people to smash with. Where you from?

The more I play Melee the more I regret not giving it a shot sooner. It was hours of playing Brawl that I noticed that there was something lacking in the game. I can't really put my finger on it but whenever I try playing Brawl seriously I get annoyed. In Melee I never get annoyed playing regardless if I'm winning or losing. The feeling of playing Melee feels just right. Playing Brawl and then playing Melee is like Night and Day, I was really surprised to see how much of a huge difference the two games are.

I only gave Melee about 10 hours of my time before shelving it away due to lack of competition from friends. This was a pretty short time frame considering it takes hours and hours just to develop any real skill in Melee. When Brawl hit I assumed the game was going to be even better, I was wrong.

 

[lordXblade]

It's been said many times in this thread, but I can't stress it enough. Practice, practice, practice. Set a computer to level one, and just keep SHFFLing over and over again until you can get every part of the SHFFL down 100%.

After that, find people to play so that you can integrate everything you're practicing into a match situation. Of course, when you're playing in a tournament, you'll have nerves to worry about, and the only way to get over nerves is to keep entering tournaments. Keep plugging away. Melee's not going anywhere.