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Guide [SSB4] Kirby's Epic Guide (ver. 2.1)

GrnFzzTgr

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I'm glad to hear that the info I make available to everyone is doing good for people. To answer your question, though, Kirby's air game is shaping up to be a lot of fun and - dare I say - even better than in Brawl. The second question you ask is worded a little vague for me because 'mixing up' attacks in fighting games is akin to keeping your opponent guessing, but I think the way it's asked is more like if Kirby has a lot of options to choose from in his aerial repertoire.

Kirby's aerial attack options are greatly improved from Brawl. Mind that I'm speaking of aerial 'options' here, not overall offense or prowess of any kind. He will play much like he did in Brawl, but more smoothly or effectively.

As for the other notion of 'mix-up', Kirby will definitely have a strong mix-up game... in fact, I think that will be his main mode of play. At low percents, at least, he will have his combos, and then he will usually have at least two different options to follow-up with, either of which will cover the other option's counter.

Yep, you interpreted what I meant correctly! Sorry for the vague phrasing! Also what are your thoughts on the changes to his standard hammer compared to brawl? I thought I saw that the aerial version didn't add momentum like it did in brawl? I remember I used to use the hammer to recover in brawl or boost my air time. His second custom, the aerial version at least looked like it was similar to brawls version? At least from Ninja Link's vids.

I know smash 4 is a different game, but it could be a good idea to include information like that about Kirby's moves. Like how they function now, compared to the previous games. If you don't plan to do that already that is. I know I'm going to be very tempted to try playing him like I did in brawl at first.
 
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t!MmY

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I've updated the guide with the damage Kirby can do with the various Copy Abilities. I will have to flesh out the descriptions and pretty it up in the next update since I'm short on time today.

There's a tournament this weekend for SSB4-3DS that I will be attending, so the next update will have to be Monday. The good news is that I will be adding in more info for Kirby's Attack Data including the long awaited "Leads, Follow-ups & Combos" section. :)

Also what are your thoughts on the changes to his standard hammer compared to brawl?

I know smash 4 is a different game, but it could be a good idea to include information like that about Kirby's moves. Like how they function now, compared to the previous games. If you don't plan to do that already that is. I know I'm going to be very tempted to try playing him like I did in brawl at first.
Kirby's hammer actually seems a bit nerfed to me, that is to say the Aerial use of the Hammer is slower to start-up and doesn't give horizontal momentum. Also, there's much more lag afterwards whereas in Brawl it was harder for the opponent to punish. There's a good chance that because of these changes that Hammer will be difficult to use and not seen very often.

I agree that info on how moves have changed would be useful for Brawl players transitioning over to SSB4. I have a lot of this info written up already in my notebook, but I have very little opportunity to post these things right now. Oh, but I do want to include this info because it's important:

Kirby's Epic Guide (in the works) said:
Special, Down
"... This time around a new mechanic seems to have been added: Kirby can now cancel on-hit."
I felt this was an important piece of information that I should jot down real quick before it's 'official' inclusion into the guide.

Wish me luck at the tourney this weekend!
:kirby:
 
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kirby_queen

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I've updated the guide with the damage Kirby can do with the various Copy Abilities. I will have to flesh out the descriptions and pretty it up in the next update since I'm short on time today.

There's a tournament this weekend for SSB4-3DS that I will be attending, so the next update will have to be Monday. The good news is that I will be adding in more info for Kirby's Attack Data including the long awaited "Leads, Follow-ups & Combos" section. :)


Kirby's hammer actually seems a bit nerfed to me, that is to say the Aerial use of the Hammer is slower to start-up and doesn't give horizontal momentum. Also, there's much more lag afterwards whereas in Brawl it was harder for the opponent to punish. There's a good chance that because of these changes that Hammer will be difficult to use and not seen very often.

I agree that info on how moves have changed would be useful for Brawl players transitioning over to SSB4. I have a lot of this info written up already in my notebook, but I have very little opportunity to post these things right now. Oh, but I do want to include this info because it's important:



I felt this was an important piece of information that I should jot down real quick before it's 'official' inclusion into the guide.

Wish me luck at the tourney this weekend!
:kirby:
GOOD LUCK. Also depressing to hear the hammer has been nerfed. Why nerf anything regarding Kirby? He wasn't really over powered AT ALL in Brawl and was super nerfed in Melee.

Thanks again for the info!
 

Aunt Jemima

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GOOD LUCK. Also depressing to hear the hammer has been nerfed. Why nerf anything regarding Kirby? He wasn't really over powered AT ALL in Brawl and was super nerfed in Melee.

Thanks again for the info!
You can just use his second Hammer custom if you want his old one back, though. His Hammer Flip seems to be stronger in damage and knockback than the older ones, uncharged, though.
 

kirby_queen

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You can just use his second Hammer custom if you want his old one back, though. His Hammer Flip seems to be stronger in damage and knockback than the older ones, uncharged, though.
I suppose. More damage is good but attacks like that are hard to land when things get intense. I dunno. Maybe I should give all options a chance and see what works.
 

GrnFzzTgr

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Good Luck at the tourney! As for his hammer, that sounds a bit disappointing. In Brawl I felt the hammer was a great way to deter attacks from an opponent while you were recovering, also a good way to conserve your jumps, and finally, a nice, quick alternative to a smash attack. People would try to block the first hit of a short hopped aerial hammer and then get nailed with a the second hit sometimes. That was great too. I remember using that aerial hammer to screw around and go from one side of final destination to the other from underneath the stage.
 
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north-note

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his normal hammer have 3 phase, weak, mild and strong.
from my experience the mild hammer is usually the best time to hit, as weak hammer does not risking( but it does have huge KO potential at high %) and strong punish you hard if you missed. the mild phase act like brawl version on air and is likely to KO your opponent.
I did play for glory with kirby, he can definitely keep up with most of his opponent, but can be easily punished and I lose alot (granted I suffered control lag alot) whenever I almost win, I just lost at that moment.
on a side note, his v3 hammer is very slow but powerful, and almost cannot be hit stunted when charging, but he can still be hitted when attacking.
 

GrnFzzTgr

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It seems like his second custom hammer (the brawlesque one) can kill at nice percents, at least if the opponent doesn't vector.. (I hate that term, I'll call it knock back influence instead, KI) The first hit seemed to knock the enemy into the second hit which is nice.

I believe I was KO'ing Bowser at 90 or 100% with the aerial version in training mode. The Jump inhale custom is great for recovery, I also found myself using it to close gaps, much faster than dashing, but a bit risky because you can't cancel the momentum. I was correct, I keep trying to used the second hammer like I do in brawl for recovery. I do miss the momentum is gave Kirby.

Also the grounding stone is great! I see potential for a few combos if you manage to ground an enemy, since kirby can come out of stone with little lag, and can act out of it.
 

Pas

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Thanks so much for this thread, especially the "How Can Kirby Get Kills" posts. It's a big help!

I've been doing some 1v1 for glory stuff and I'm finding myself able to control the stage and get some good life leads, but I've been having a lot of trouble getting the KO against skilled opponents. In all the back and forth I usually get worn down and KO'd before they do, even if they're quickly over 100%. Seems I need to up my off-stage shenanigans...
 

Asdioh

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I'll contribute what little tidbits I can think of from playing a decent amount of For Glory today.
I've been having a lot of trouble getting the KO against skilled opponents. In all the back and forth I usually get worn down and KO'd before they do, even if they're quickly over 100%.
Story of my life since brawl. Dont worry, it's a bit easier in this game.

Protip if your opponents aren't top level players: people tend to roll away when they're feeling pressure on the ground, and jump away when pressured in the air. Punish that.

:phone:
 
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Pas

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Haha, glad it's not just me! Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for that.
 

GrnFzzTgr

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Oh I know that feeling. I was fighting a Ness my first time in for glory. Between lag and the disjointed hit boxes. my damage was pretty high before I figured out the opponent's behavior. Resulting in me losing a stock before taking away one of his, and me having around %50 on the next stock by the time I ko'd him. Then he Ko'd me for the win. Got revenge on his pac-man though!

Aside from a few difference, Kirby seems very much like his brawl rendition. I'm able to do most of the combos I could in brawl. I usually try to approach with retreating fair. if I can get a grab in at the beginning, I go for F-Throw > forward air. (doesn't work if the opponent DI's :( ) Kirby is very nice for aerial combos. used those to put on the pressure, especially offstage. My favorite offstage combo F-air > U-Air -Fair > U-air still works in smash 4
 
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t!MmY

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So the tournament I went to had a good number of players from all over the region and I primarily used Kirby (I tried out Dedede in one game). Overall I took 5th place - which is a decent standing by itself - but most importantly I learned a lot about the game and important aspects of the competitive scene. Some things I found:

Kirby is extremely good at building up damage with his combo game. I was routinely pulling off awesome combos at lower percents - I even got at least one 'zero to death' in my brackets. It is also not too difficult to pull off KO moves at higher percents with the buff to B-air and the awesome combo I devised which got impressed nods from my opponents. (This awesome combo is simply 'Down-Air to Down-Smash' at approximately 120%).

Now, the bad news: some of Kirby's problems from Brawl still carry over into the new generation of Smash. Specifically he has a hard time dealing with speedy characters, mainly with the ones that play very defensively. It doesn't even take a considerable amount of speed on the opponent's part to play keep-away with Kirby, just enough to get to a safe range to throw out ranged attacks or out-range him with longer reaching melee attacks. I feel like if I had a secondary to fall back on for these situations that I would have done much better in the tournament, perhaps even gone on to winning the event altogether. Unfortunately my 'fast' character (Meta Knight) isn't exactly a great choice right now with me being unfamiliar with the changes made to him, and Dedede is even slower than Kirby is for this situation.

Competitively speaking, I'll be looking both what I can do to help mitigate this weakness (i.e. this 'balance' in character design) with Kirby himself as well as possibly finding a secondary to counterpick with. I don't think Meta Knight is completely crippled in SSB4, so he's still a viable option I have. :)
 
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Aunt Jemima

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So the tournament I went to had a good number of players from all over the region and I primarily used Kirby (I tried out Dedede in one game). Overall I took 5th place - which is a decent standing by itself - but most importantly I learned a lot about the game and important aspects of the competitive scene. Some things I found:

Kirby is extremely good at building up damage with his combo game. I was routinely pulling off awesome combos at lower percents - I even got at least one 'zero to death' in my brackets. It is also not too difficult to pull off KO moves at higher percents with the buff to B-air and the awesome combo I devised which got impressed nods from my opponents. (This awesome combo is simply 'Down-Air to Down-Smash' at approximately 120%).

Now, the bad news: some of Kirby's problems from Brawl still carry over into the new generation of Smash. Specifically he has a hard time dealing with speedy characters, mainly with the ones that play very defensively. It doesn't even take a considerable amount of speed on the opponent's part to play keep-away with Kirby, just enough to get to a safe range to throw out ranged attacks or out-range him with longer reaching melee attacks. I feel like if I had a secondary to fall back on for these situations that I would have done much better in the tournament, perhaps even gone on to winning the event altogether. Unfortunately my 'fast' character (Meta Knight) isn't exactly a great choice right now with me being unfamiliar with the changes made to him, and Dedede is even slower than Kirby is for this situation.

Competitively speaking, I'll be looking both what I can do to help mitigate this weakness (i.e. this 'balance' in character design) with Kirby himself as well as possibly finding a secondary to counterpick with. I don't think Meta Knight is completely crippled in SSB4, so he's still a viable option I have. :)
Wow, congratulations! I'm happy to hear how you did.

Anyways, a few questions based on your experience:

What are some good combos that Kirby can do? Good set-ups, etc?

Does D-Air always combo into D-Smash at high percents?

What are some of Kirby's worst match-ups?
 

kirby_queen

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So the tournament I went to had a good number of players from all over the region and I primarily used Kirby (I tried out Dedede in one game). Overall I took 5th place - which is a decent standing by itself - but most importantly I learned a lot about the game and important aspects of the competitive scene. Some things I found:

Kirby is extremely good at building up damage with his combo game. I was routinely pulling off awesome combos at lower percents - I even got at least one 'zero to death' in my brackets. It is also not too difficult to pull off KO moves at higher percents with the buff to B-air and the awesome combo I devised which got impressed nods from my opponents. (This awesome combo is simply 'Down-Air to Down-Smash' at approximately 120%).

Now, the bad news: some of Kirby's problems from Brawl still carry over into the new generation of Smash. Specifically he has a hard time dealing with speedy characters, mainly with the ones that play very defensively. It doesn't even take a considerable amount of speed on the opponent's part to play keep-away with Kirby, just enough to get to a safe range to throw out ranged attacks or out-range him with longer reaching melee attacks. I feel like if I had a secondary to fall back on for these situations that I would have done much better in the tournament, perhaps even gone on to winning the event altogether. Unfortunately my 'fast' character (Meta Knight) isn't exactly a great choice right now with me being unfamiliar with the changes made to him, and Dedede is even slower than Kirby is for this situation.

Competitively speaking, I'll be looking both what I can do to help mitigate this weakness (i.e. this 'balance' in character design) with Kirby himself as well as possibly finding a secondary to counterpick with. I don't think Meta Knight is completely crippled in SSB4, so he's still a viable option I have. :)
WOW 5th place is still REALLY awesome! GREAT JOB! :D Thanks for taking Kirby so far!

I mostly main Kirby as well... I know that all the characters sort of have their weakness and so it's good to main another character for balance... but I want to main someone from the Kirby Franchise... and I'm TERRIBLE with MK... and merely ok with King Dedede. Obviously King Dedede won't work... I'll have to force myself to really play MK.

(This is why I wanted Bandana Dee to be a newcomer, cause I imagined him being a fast glass canon)

Time to get my MK training going....
 

Malkasaur

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T1MMY IS ALIVE? As I Melee Kirby main, I have infinite respect for you. I didn't like Kirby much in Brawl, but hopefully I can find something to like about em in this game.
 

Agent Emerald

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... he has a hard time dealing with speedy characters, mainly with the ones that play very defensively. It doesn't even take a considerable amount of speed on the opponent's part to play keep-away with Kirby, just enough to get to a safe range to throw out ranged attacks or out-range him with longer reaching melee attacks. I feel like if I had a secondary to fall back on for these situations that I would have done much better in the tournament, perhaps even gone on to winning the event altogether.
This has me thinking. What secondaries are good for Kirby? I think projectile users, decent ranged melee users who can snag them before they can escape, or Captain Falcon sound like good ideas.

On an unrelated note, the hammer's recoil disappears starting at 100%.
 
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SmileyStation

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This has me thinking. What secondaries are good for Kirby? I think projectile users, decent ranged melee users who can snag them before they can escape, or Captain Falcon sound like good ideas.

On an unrelated note, the hammer's recoil disappears starting at 100%.
What do you mean it disappears? And whos percent? Yours or your enemies? Either way that doesnt make sense. Why would his frame data change based on an enemies damage? Thats breaking the entire game's mechanics.
 

Agent Emerald

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What do you mean it disappears? And whos percent? Yours or your enemies? Either way that doesnt make sense. Why would his frame data change based on an enemies damage? Thats breaking the entire game's mechanics.
I'm referring to the recoil damage the hammer does to Kirby when it's fully charged.
 

SmileyStation

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oh that makes sense then. Generally Heavy startup warrants low recoil. Unless the move is bad. Like it was in brawl. People have been saying the hammer got nerfed but idk wtf theyre talking about. Instead of trying to d-tilt>>trip>>short step>>hammer and hoping a character doesnt recover faster than normal(Marth) you can basically d-tilt>>trip>>hammer and let it rip when youre in range. That sounds like an overall buff to me. It gives you a guaranteed kill combo theoretically.
 
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Agent Emerald

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I think they mean more that the aerial hammer was nerfed. In Brawl it gave you mild horizontal rmomentum and could somewhat dissuade opponents from finishing the job. Now it doesn't have it, nor do either of the alt ones.
 

SmileyStation

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I think they mean more that the aerial hammer was nerfed. In Brawl it gave you mild horizontal rmomentum and could somewhat dissuade opponents from finishing the job. Now it doesn't have it, nor do either of the alt ones.
I wouldnt even call that a nerf then. Its a change in the hammer's mechanics. since its easier to get on the ledges now anyways theres no point to it. It still sounds like a buff to me. At the very LEAST a sidegrade.
 

GrnFzzTgr

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I wouldnt even call that a nerf then. Its a change in the hammer's mechanics. since its easier to get on the ledges now anyways theres no point to it. It still sounds like a buff to me. At the very LEAST a sidegrade.
Even it is easier to get to ledges now, I thought the hammer in brawl was yet another option to try to deter deter off-stage pursuit. Nobody wants to get hit with a well timed hammer.
 

Retroend

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i've been hearing a lot about kirby being buffed, but he feels so nerfed to me. no throw combos, his range has been reduced, i don't get it! smash 4 mechanics really don't do him any justice, and he still has the problem of approaching characters with long range attacks or swords. i don't know, is it just me or am i missing something here with my main?
 

SmileyStation

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i've been hearing a lot about kirby being buffed, but he feels so nerfed to me. no throw combos, his range has been reduced, i don't get it! smash 4 mechanics really don't do him any justice, and he still has the problem of approaching characters with long range attacks or swords. i don't know, is it just me or am i missing something here with my main?
its really just that the game is new and there hasnt been enough time to create and master combos. Give it some time.
 

Retroend

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its really just that the game is new and there hasnt been enough time to create and master combos. Give it some time.
i wonder though if the wiiu version would be any different. i would suspect that the 3ds can only handle so much so maybe smash 4 is the way it is with that system. i wonder if the wiiu version will be more fluid and more balanced.
 

SmileyStation

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i wonder though if the wiiu version would be any different. i would suspect that the 3ds can only handle so much so maybe smash 4 is the way it is with that system. i wonder if the wiiu version will be more fluid and more balanced.
Thats what im gathering videos to find out. Im trying to get frame data so well know for sure. That would be a huge mistake on Nintendo's part if they did that.
 

t!MmY

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What are some good combos that Kirby can do? Good set-ups, etc?
In general, at low percents Kirby's combos are short and to-the-point but they put your opponent into a position that you can pressure and keep the offense going. In other words you'll get more hits in the better you can predict your opponent and make the right choices. At higher damage levels the combo game tapers off with the exception of D-air and possible D-tilt trip combos.


Does D-Air always combo into D-Smash at high percents?
Technically speaking, I don't think D-air combos into D-smash as far as frame data and hitstun are concerned. In practical application it's effectively a combo. I've even combo'd (pseudo-combo'd?) D-air into U-smash. As of right now, you can reliably get KO's off this combo with the exception of characters that have a way of doing a "Combo Breaker" (Mega Man). (and even then the player has to know the match-up in order to counter the combo).


What are some of Kirby's worst match-ups?
Right now his difficulties come from:
'Disjointed' Hitboxes
Fast Speed
Powerful KO's
Good Stage Recovery (Distance Covered & Speed Traveled)

My list will likely change when I start playing people who become really good with their respective characters (I have somewhat of an advantage that Kirby is very familiar to me), but right now I'd say some tough match-ups would be:
Yoshi
Zero Suit Samus
Lucario
Greninja
R.O.B.
Mii (Brawler)

Tough match-ups that I haven't played but I'd consider watching out for would be:
Rosalina
Diddy
Sheik
Toon Link
Pit/Pitoo
Lucina

Those aren't listed by difficutly, just going from top-left to bottom-right on the character select screen.

WOW 5th place is still REALLY awesome! GREAT JOB! :D Thanks for taking Kirby so far!
There was a tournament at the University on Monday and I took what I learned from the first tournament going into my games. I finished at 2nd place, and t0mmy was 1st. In Finals (Kirby vs. Greninja) I won the first 2 game, but - since it was Best of 5 - t0mmy caught on to the new Kirby tricks and ended up winning a clean 3 consecutive games after that.

In Grand Finals I tried out my possible counter-characters, since there was little more I could do with Kirby at that point. The games were definitely closer, but I could only score 1 win with Dedede and 1 win with Sheik, which wasn't even enough to go to 2nd Set. I like to think it's because t0mmy's Greninja is just really good, which helps motivate me to improve in return. (btw, at the tournament I ranked 5th, t0mmy took 2nd).

This has me thinking. What secondaries are good for Kirby? I think projectile users, decent ranged melee users who can snag them before they can escape, or Captain Falcon sound like good ideas.

On an unrelated note, the hammer's recoil disappears starting at 100%.
Right now I'd say:
Identify.
Experiment.
Practice.


Identify your (personal) bad match-ups. Play-style and skill levels mean much more at this juncture in the game. If a specific character is giving you trouble, find out what it is that the character is doing that is working against you.

Experiment with different characters to see if they have something that helps counter the problem match-up. Learning to play different characters will also help you fight against those characters, strategically speaking.

Practice specific situations and techniques in Training Mode with your plausible new secondary before you ever human opponents. You have to invest time to improve your Secondary to a competent level before you can benefit from actual player-vs-player experience.

Thanks for the note on the Hammer's recoil damage. I'll check that out and fix the guide with the info.

i've been hearing a lot about kirby being buffed, but he feels so nerfed to me. no throw combos, his range has been reduced, i don't get it! smash 4 mechanics really don't do him any justice, and he still has the problem of approaching characters with long range attacks or swords. i don't know, is it just me or am i missing something here with my main?
Kirby's buffs come into play due to the increase in HitStun as well as slight tweaks to some moves. He is better at his juggling game with U-tilt and U-air which lead into his buffed B-air (1% increase in damage). His D-air is his new bread-and-butter lead, which now combos even at higher damage.

While Kirby's 'grab game' might seem weaker, it really wasn't that good in Brawl anyway. Brawl Kirby's F-throw -> U-air only did about 18% damage and allowed the opponent to SDI out of any possible follow-ups. Technically Smash4 Kirby's 'grab game' is stronger with the fact that F-throw actually throws the opponent forward and B-throw actually throws the opponent backward (great for getting opponents off-stage). Additionally, B-throw can KO at higher damage putting in par on with Kirby's U-throw KO percentages in Brawl (and doesn't require overhead platforms).

I'm not sure about his range being reduced (unless you mean his Final Cutter which was never good as a ranged attack anyway). Kirby seems larger (relatively speaking) which adds to his range, additionally characters with exceptionally good range are more balanced in that department (Marth, Meta Knight, and three is no Snake). Kirby has always had problems with range and projectiles, so I guess that's suppose to be part of his strength/weakness balance.
 
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GrnFzzTgr

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I'm having trouble telling, but has Kirby's air speed been nerfed? Though it could just be online lag... In just noting that I feel so much slower in the air than I ever did. I used to have a decent air game in brawl and melee, but now I I find myself struggling to do offstage. Which is why Little mac, a character I should have an advantage over, gives me problems I guess. That and I always seem get nailed by the KO punch on my last stock, it's either that or it goes into sudden death in For Glory because the little mac/greninja's decided to stall.

Though I will admit, I'm also not that great of a player.
 
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ryuu seika

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If Megaman is the only character who can break out of it, it's a legit combo. There is generally agreed to be something not right about his UpB in terms of how it reacts to hitstun or rather sometimes doesn't. Noone is quite sure of why it can escape some things and not others though.

If the "combo" seems to have free frames, Pikachu is the guy to test that with since his down B apparently spawns the lightning on frame 1.
 

Illuvial

Exploring Tallon IV
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
411
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Kirby's Down Throw is so bizarre. I just tested it vs Pac Man and I did 6% damage, then I did it again and did 7% damage, and then a third time for 5% damage

I don't even know anymore
 

t!MmY

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
5,146
Location
Oregon
NNID
t1mmy_smash
I'm having trouble telling, but has Kirby's air speed been nerfed?
...Which is why Little mac, a character I should have an advantage over, gives me problems I guess.
I wouldn't say his air speed is nerfed, and definitely not slower than Melee. Kirby isn't fast in the air, but I'm guessing the trouble is more likely online lag.

I played against two Little Mac users in the tournament on Wednesday (yeah, I've been going to a lot of tournaments lately), and each had a different play style. One was more "nooby" with lots of Rolls and charged Smash Attacks, the other player was more "smart player" where he would do a variety of moves for different situations. From this I gathered that Little Mac isn't necessarily an advantageous match for Kirby, but it isn't necessarily a bad one either.

My opinion is that Little Mac has a very strong ground game... moreso than people yet realize. He's also not especially easy for Kirby to gimp, but rather when you gimp him it pays off big time. Because of this, the match-up revolves around Kirby making sure not to get hit while Mac is on his feet, and Mac trying to get a strong hit in and finish off Kirby before he goes off-stage. It's a very odd 50:50 match-up that can feel like a 70:30 for either character depending on the momentum of the match. I guess you could call it a 70:70 match-up. >_>

I'll end this with saying that the 'nooby' player gave me much more trouble (down to the last stock) than the 'smart player' (whom I 3-stocked). The nooby style of play paid off for him in the fact that immediately Roll-Dodging kept him from getting punished easily, and the constant Smash Attacks meant that eventually something would make a solid hit. At the same time, ultimately that style of play was not going to win because I was learning what could be punished and what couldn't and he was stuck doing the same patterns.

My advice with this match-up is not to go in too hard because either side's punish game can be pretty devastating.
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
16,200
Location
OH
The scariest part about Mac imo is that his smashes all have insane pushback when you shield them, so much that you can't reach him fast enough to punish. This might be better if you perfect shield?
 

GrnFzzTgr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
391
Location
Queens, NY
NNID
GrnFzzTgr
3DS FC
4425-1713-9059
Rosalina, Peach, Palutena, Greninja, Shiek.

I ran into a pretty awesome player who was able to use all of them really well, they kept 2 stocking me, but the matches were still fun. Didn't stand a chance. It's a shame I couldn't add that player to my list, I think they had fun too, because we were at it for about an hour.

I feel like I can't deal with these characters at all. I'm such a scrub, haha

Warning: You people will be seeing me asking for a lot of advice and constructive criticism. I really want to get better!
 
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