Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion 07 - Captain Falcon - Bluebirds Story

[Ffamran]

Welcome to the Captain Falcon matchup discussion.

All credit goes to Quas-quas for the original images.​

Here's a link to the main post: SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion - Main Post. This will be more for general matchup discussions like making a suggestion and such. Or, you could head over to the social thread and ask there: Where We Prefer The Air And The Points Don't Matter!. Or PM me if you really have to, but don't make a habit out of it.

Oh, and if you guys and girls want to play each other to have fun or learn about the MU, check out the NNID and FC sharing thread on the Falco boards: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

There's also the regular NNID and FC sharing threads in the Online discussion if you just want to ask anyone to play.

Notice: Some rules, guidelines, and tips. Some of these are a given since you joined any forum.

1. Be respectful of each other. No insults, no trolling, no flaming, or any of that nonsense.
2. Be aware that some of the discussions can and will be old, so don't call out someone for "wrong" data if that post was referring to say, patch 1.0.3 stuff.
3. Be impartial; learn to see things from other sides. So, don't boast about all the advantages. Notice weaknesses and strengths from both parties.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Have fun.

And here is a frame speed ranking of their regular attacks and grabs - no Specials yet, sorry - to clear up on things since sometimes a move may feel slow, but it's actually fast and vice versa. Plus more information doesn't always hurt. Data from List of attacks/grabs from fastest initial frame to slowest (Frame Speed) and the Complete Hitbox/Frame Data For Every Character threads.

As of patch 1.1.4.

Move Hit Frames||
Jab|2-4, 10-12, 17-21, 22-26, 27-31, 32-36, (infinite), 41-42|3-5, 12-14, 22-23 (Gentleman)
Dash Attack|8-11 or 12-19|7-9 or 10-16
Ftilt|6-8|9-11
Utilt|5-9, 12-16|17-20
Dtilt|7-9|11-12
Side Smash|17-19 or 20-20|19-22
Up Smash|7-12, 13-20|22-22, 28-28
Down Smash|7-9|19-20, 29-30
Nair|3-5, 6-9, 14-17, 21-24|7-8, 20-21
Fair|10-13, 14-17, 18-21, 22-25, 26-27, 28-29|14-14 or 15-30
Bair|4-5 or 6-11|10-11 or 12-15
Uair|7-11|6-10 or 11-12
Dair|16-19 or 20-31|16-18
Grab|8-9|7-8
Dash Grab|10-11|9-10
Pivot Grab|11-12|12-13

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Falcon is fast. ;__;

I don't fight many Falcons, and the ones I do fight I don't use Falco against. He's fast, he can run in for the grab into combo options like uair, and he's got a dangerous bair and dair for stage spikes and off-stage gimping respectively, though his recovery isn't the best horizontally.

I would say lasers are a very dangerous prospect here, as are any moves that leave us in a lot of endlag. Falcon is fast, and he could easily run in from anywhere to punish us if we're not careful. I don't know if our nair beats his aerials in terms of length, so that's something to consider. The important thing is getting him off-stage, and keeping him there.

Perhaps our goal in this kind of matchup is to consider the stages we're fighting on, and emphasize defensive play. That is, I think flat stages would end up putting us on a disadvantage as that gives Falcon the whole space to run and nowhere for us to hide. What does anyone else think?

 

[Ffamran]

Really? I fight so many Captain Falcons that it almost became second nature to know when to use Falco's Dair. Then again, this is For Glory I'm talking about, so yeah... Then there's the fact that Captain Falcon is everywhere, but I don't remember seeing him winning a lot in tournaments. Captain Falcon to me is an all or nothing fighter who if he screws up, then he is royally screwed.

For those that want to see more on Falco vs. Captain Falcon, check out the Good Falco videos? thread, especially the last two pages. I believe those have the most on Falco vs. Captain Falcon videos.

For me, Falco takes Ganondorf's spot as a punisher while Captain Falcon is, well, Captain Falcon, or even Fox if you want a Fox/Falco and Captain Falcon/Ganondorf analogy. Falco will need to punish Captain Falcon while Captain Falcon will need to keep pressuring Falco. The thing is that while Falco gives up some range, Falco is faster on the ground than Ganondorf and his air game is even more dangerous since Ganondorf hits hard, while Falco hits (less) hard and deep, especially if they can pull of this which might be situational.

From this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/f-air-to-footstool-guaranteed-kill.390351/#post-18537924.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

The For Glory meta is not the same as the standard meta, but I agree with what you're saying. We really need to exploit every mistake that Falcon makes, while minimizing our own mistakes. While Falco does have strong attacks, Falcon can also kill us before we hit 90% if we're unlucky. That fsmash is really strong, from experience. >.>;;;

If that new tech proves useful and simple to do in many situations, I think we can really turn this matchup into something in our favor.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

If you do go with the Capt Falcon and Falco MU, I have to say try going for a stage with platforms at all times.
Rage Quit is right, Capt has the speed and power to force an approach, with the SH nair, and plenty of options to mix up said approach between dair and bair and even his Falcon Kick.
Also his raptor boost has a bit of use as well, being able to take the stock at around 110-20(?) with rage boost, even though it's easy to punish.

Punishes have to be on point, as usual, but even more so with this MU, a good Falcon isn't going to use unsafe options often so when the window does open you have to work quickly. Get Falcon in the air or offstage somehow and go to town with the fair and bair, he can't contest the fair.
60-40, Falco on the low side of course. Falco is too slow. Falcon is too fast.

 

[Ffamran]

It's more of Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Ike, Fox, and Falco having exploitable and predictable, but effective recoveries. Ike at least has Ragnell covering him and super armor, but Palutena, Zelda, and the Pits can gimp him with Reflect Barrier, Phantom Slash, and Guardian Orbitars since when Ike rises up to catch Ragnell, he'll follow the contours? of both the stage and the moves and slide back and drop to the ground. Captain Falcon is more in the sense that I learned the timing of Falcon Dive and I know when to use Dair which is also something that might throw people off since not a lot of people use Raptor Boost or Ganodorf's Flame Choke to recover. I dunked people with Raptor Boost before when they thought I was going to try to grab the ledge or go low for a Falcon Dive recover and I have Flame Choke slammed and Ganoncided for the same reason.

In this MU, both Falco and Captain Falcon can Dair each other easily since both have predictable recoveries. In Falco's case, he can go deep and/or fastfall Dair while Captain Falcon's fast and can knock Falco to the other side of the stage, catch up, and Nipple spike the hell out of Falco.

 

[Darky-Sama]

One thing to keep in mind about this match-up is that laser really places Falcon in disadvantageous situations. If you shoot lasers while on or near the ground, you're limiting Falcon's ability to get proper grabs in - which is essential to any Falcon's playstyle. Majority of Falcon's damage, combos and option selects come from his throws. The lasers will force Falcon to approach from midair, which limits his options extraordinarily.

Falcon's air game can be scary - until you realize that his Dair and Fair are completely unsafe. If you shield either of these two moves (which are his primary aerials to use if he's approaching Falco during laser pressure), you can punish him with practically anything. This isn't even a joke. The landing lag on Dair and the Knee are so horrifying long that shielding either of the moves can result in him losing a stock. Occasionally, you may find an intelligent and flashy Falcon who approaches from the air in reverse so that he can pressure with spaced Bairs - however, when trying to deal with laser pressure, this is often difficult to do.

Important Note: You shouldn't be afraid to camp against him in this game because unlike previous Smash games, Falcon's air momentum was heavily nerfed. If he jumps in the air from a dash, he loses that momentum in midair and will move at a speed almost equal to his walking speed. He can no longer jump across Final Destination with a single jump, so don't be afraid to force him into the air.

That being said, being in the air above Falcon is bad. Falco's Dair is good for trading hits with his Uair strings at lower percentages, but putting yourself in that situation really isn't worth trying. Stay on ground level and short hop Bair or Dair if you're intending to pressure him with any aerials - but full hopping while he's grounded can be fatal around 50-60%.

Once Falcon gets a character at 50-60%, he has a kill combo on the cast that's as easy as stringing Uair > Knee.

Other variations are:
Dthrow>Knee
Dthrow>Uair>Knee
Dthrow>buffered dash>Uair>Knee
SHFFL Uair>Uair>Knee

It's also worth noting that using Side+B to recover onto the stage can be punished with Knee or a fullhop reverse Falcon Punch. Falcon can control the Falcon Punch spacing by jumping to guarantee it connects to punish the side+B. Always recover on the ledge if knocked back horizontally.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Aye, Falcon does have long endlag on his knee and stomp. What about Falcon's nair though? Surely that's useful for spacing?

Also, it looks like most of those kill combos rely on knee, which has a very small sweetspot. Doesn't seem very reliable to me.

The way you describe it, it seems smart laser camping is practically encouraged. Does it really disrupt him, and should it be one of our go-to's during the neutral? I would think that it would be good to encourage his approach and try to counter a dash grab or dash attack. Speaking of, do we have any moves that beat those out besides point-blank laser?

 

[Ffamran]

Falco can't camp-spam like say, Link, Toon Link, Villager, etc. on For Glory. In more honorable settings, that's going to get you kicked out or beaten to a pulp since high level players can probably figure you out fast if you don't know how to kill with that character. It's why Duck Hunt suffers since unless Duck Hunt lands a Can, a Smash fully connects, or an aerial which might not be safe at all, then Duck Hunt is screwed. Falco can't camp period because of the end lag and laser's travel speed, but zoning, he can since he can shoot every once and again to annoy and interrupt someone's momentum or even condition them to shield, spot-dodge, jump, etc. to exploit their forced options/approaches.

Falco and Captain Falcon get a lot out of their throws. I know Falco can make use of all of his throws, but I'm not sure about Captain Falcon; I know about D-throw and F-throw, but I'm not sure about Captain Falcon's U-throw and B-throw.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Falcon's SHFFL first hit Nair is good for comboing into Up+B / Jab / Dtilt / Ftilt / Grab.

But it's one of those moves that you rarely see Falcon's throwing out to pressure with. If he approaches with short hop Nair, chances are he's not trying to do a first hit Nair. He would be trying to hit with the second hit that would actually deal knockback. The reason is because actually hitting with the first hit of his Nair while approaching is difficult. It's possible, but the spacing is really strict and he has to be relatively close for it to connect. Usually, Falcon will go for the SHFFL firsthit Nair setup after dashing toward a character > short hopping backwards (not an RAR, but to stop his forward momentum), then fast falling with the Nair in place. That's usually when he's trying to mix up the pressure outside of his grab game. It's good for punishing reactions.

But yeah, Nair is definitely the aerial Falcon should be using here - even if he can't get much damage off it.

I would recommend getting the spacing down against Falcon. Once you know how far his jump range is and you know when he can't punish you, you'll know exactly when to stop using the lasers. I wouldn't recommend using point-blank laser because he can still do those unsafe moves (such as knee) on reaction to punish the cooldown.


EDIT:

Falco and Captain Falcon get a lot out of their throws. I know Falco can make use of all of his throws, but I'm not sure about Captain Falcon; I know about D-throw and F-throw, but I'm not sure about Captain Falcon's U-throw and B-throw.

Falcon's Bthrow is basically just there to throw character's offstage. He can't do anything off it, but it's helpful for throwing characters a certain way after getting pivot grabs or getting high-percent kills.

His Uthrow is actually interesting in this game though. It has a really, really high knockback from 0% and can set up for early-percent option selects and Uair pressure. Dthrow is still the better option, but if you're against a character that is limited on what they can do when while up in the air, it doesn't hurt to throw it out sometimes.

 

[Ffamran]

Funny how that's a thing Ganondorf does too except Ganondorf's Nair does the reverse; Ganondorf's first hit on Nair deals knockback while the second hit doesn't.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Also, it looks like most of those kill combos rely on knee, which has a very small sweetspot. Doesn't seem very reliable to me.

For a good Falcon, sweetspotting the knee isn't difficult at all. It shouldn't be thrown out wildly, obviously. It's there to punish and combo. Nothing more, nothing less.

Between 50-60%, Dthrow>Uair>Knee is a true combo on everyone. If someone DIs properly, all you have to do is dash forward after the down throw and Uair. They'll remain in hitstun long enough for you to dash forward and Uair. The double jump knee should sweetspot regardless of how well the opponent's DI is. You can go into training mode and test it out. It's counted as a 3 hit combo.

Funny how that's a thing Ganondorf does too except Ganondorf's Nair does the reverse; Ganondorf's first hit on Nair deals knockback while the second hit doesn't.

Sadly, Ganondorf can't do much off his even if you do time the weak hit of the Nair. His moves have really slow startup. I think he can still grab out of it though.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Alot of insight, but I disagree with the laser campage as well, the endlag is worse than Falcon's Knee in my opinion.

But I do think if you throw out a couple and condition the Falcon, and play keep away with his shine to mix it up, but it should be done rarely.
As a Falcon secondary, I abuse his nair often, it's really good, and I usually go for RAR bair and try to space out properly. I didn't think his dair was THAT bad, it feels faster on landing than Falco's. Probably because I don't play him that often.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Wait... I hope no one got the impression that I meant "Use lasers the entire match-up." When you have the distance, yeah. Do it and don't be afraid. But trying to play keepaway from Falcon is a joke if you're trying to do it the entire time. Just use it to bait reactions and get your kills off whatever he does.

RAR Bair is definitely one of Falcon's best options, but doing it against lasers? You have to dash forward into the lasers and then press backwards and jump to do that - assuming you're even close enough to him. I doubt it'll be doing much against that sort of pressure. Not saying it's impossible, but it's not easy to do. Or recommended imo. I've tried doing that time and time again and it usually doesn't help much. lol

EDIT: This is just my perspective in the sense of "What I feel like Falco should be doing because Falcon is limited to unfavorable options."

 

[Ffamran]

Sadly, Ganondorf can't do much off his even if you do time the weak hit of the Nair. His moves have really slow startup. I think he can still grab out of it though.

If I remember looking at the data correctly, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf share the same startup for their aerials which furthers fuel for people enraged about Falcondorf and wanting Ganondorf to not be a clone. For their ground moves and Specials, though, I'm not sure, since either of them could have one slower and one faster move that sort of evens them out. Movement-wise, Captain Falcon takes the cake.

 

[_Magus_]

Ganondorf? You called?

For a good Falcon, sweetspotting the knee isn't difficult at all. It shouldn't be thrown out wildly, obviously. It's there to punish and combo. Nothing more, nothing less.

Between 50-60%, Dthrow>Uair>Knee is a true combo on everyone. If someone DIs properly, all you have to do is dash forward after the down throw and Uair. They'll remain in hitstun long enough for you to dash forward and Uair. The double jump knee should sweetspot regardless of how well the opponent's DI is. You can go into training mode and test it out. It's counted as a 3 hit combo.



Sadly, Ganondorf can't do much off his even if you do time the weak hit of the Nair. His moves have really slow startup. I think he can still grab out of it though.

It's not combo material, but it's an amazing spacer as the fullhop version is lagless and it stays out forever. It's also amazing for gimping. Up air is our other spacer, and our primary juggle and combo aerial.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I wasn't saying that laser camping was a good thing, but rather that we should try to control the stage with lasers. A poor choice of words on my part, I suppose, and I apologize for misleading. In any case,

I was right then, in saying that Falcon's got our number when we reach a certain percent. Spacing is key then, and doing everything we can to minimize exploitable opportunities on our part is needed. Grabs will likely mean death in the hands of a good Falcon (literally), so approach with caution perhaps.

I think good stages to fight Falcon would be those that transform, such as Delfino and Skyloft. Perhaps Town and City and Lylat Cruise too. So long as we can control Falcon's actions to an extent and have an expectation of what he'll do under certain conditions, we should be able to keep the matchup from tipping too heavily in Falcon's favor. Any disagreements on my ideas?

And who invited the Ganondork

 

[Ffamran]

Ganondorf? You called?

Wrong thread. The King of Evil will get his turn later.

 

[Darky-Sama]

If I remember looking at the data correctly, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf share the same startup for their aerials which furthers fuel for people enraged about Falcondorf and wanting Ganondorf to not be a clone. For their ground moves and Specials, though, I'm not sure, since either of them could have one slower and one faster move that sort of evens them out. Movement-wise, Captain Falcon takes the cake.

Unfortuantely, Falcon's aerials don't really connect well into the firsthit Nair. In Brawl, it was possible to firsthit Nair > Knee Jigglypuff, but that was a match-up specific thing. Up+B might still work. I know Ganon's aerials have different cooldown than Falcon's for certain though.

 

[_Magus_]

Wrong thread. The King of Evil will get his turn later.

Gotcha. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to be tagged into that discussion when it happens. It seems some people don't have too much MU experience vs. Dorf.

 

[Ffamran]

Unfortuantely, Falcon's aerials don't really connect well into the firsthit Nair. In Brawl, it was possible to firsthit Nair > Knee Jigglypuff, but that was a match-up specific thing. Up+B might still work. I know Ganon's aerials have different cooldown than Falcon's for certain though.

Like Fair? I'm pretty sure or it's just a placebo effect, but Ganondorf's Fair landing lag seems much shorter and I think Bair has a longer end lag in the air as well.

Anyway, I heard from someone and I don't remember who said this, but they mentioned something about mixing up Knee sweet and sour-spots. They said you could use Knee's sour-spot to trip up/confuse your opponents. I don't know about this and it's probably risky as hell on stage and off stage, but I'd like input on this.

Gotcha. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to be tagged into that discussion when it happens. It seems some people don't have too much MU experience vs. Dorf.

Funny how I fight a lot of Ganondorfs and play as him as well. I mean, why wouldn't you? He's freaking hilarious! One boot and boom, off to oblivion.

 

[_Magus_]

Like Fair? I'm pretty sure or it's just a placebo effect, but Ganondorf's Fair landing lag seems much shorter and I think Bair has a longer end lag in the air as well.

Anyway, I heard from someone and I don't remember who said this, but they mentioned something about mixing up Knee sweet and sour-spots. They said you could use Knee's sour-spot to trip up/confuse your opponents. I don't know about this and it's probably risky as hell on stage and off stage, but I'd like input on this.


Funny how I fight a lot of Ganondorfs and play as him as well. I mean, why wouldn't you? He's freaking hilarious! One boot and boom, off to oblivion.

Couldn't have said it better myself. And with his recent buffs, he doesn't have too many bad MUs. There's no character I'd rather main.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Also, moving onward - we should discuss the situations where you can't actually use lasers effectively against Falcon. In essence, that's where the issue really comes down to. If you let Falcon into your comfort zone, you'll likely have some difficulty dealing with his jab and grab shenanigans.

One of the things that I've been trying to stress out to new Falcon players is how chasing characters down with Uair isn't always the best option. Sometimes (actually, almost always) it's better to just Dthrow a character and wait to see what they do. Falcon can easily run under a character if they double jump so that he's beneath where they're going to land. From there, it's easy for him to SHFFL a Uair close to the ground.

This, my friends, is an option select.

Characters who don't have a good answer to the Uair can either try to trade hits with Falcon's Uair, get hit or air dodge. If Falcon isn't at a high percentage and trades a hit with someone, he can easily repeat the process once they're hit (or he'll ground bounce - which has almost nonexistent hitstun after the bounce, so he can still react). If they get hit normally, Falcon will autocancel on the ground and can string another Uair (or Uair>Knee at certain percentages). If they air dodge, Falcon's Uair will miss, but it will cancel on the ground quickly enough that he can punish the cooldown that the opponent will suffer from air dodging into the ground.

Regrab > Repeat or whatever else.

I've actually been taking my own advice and began implementing this into my playstyle. It's extremely useful in most of Falcon's match-ups. Falco would likely give this method some trouble because of the awkward angle and spike of his Dair on-stage. But I have a feeling that Falcon can just spam Uair after being ground bounced anyway -- assuming he wasn't above 100%.


EDIT:

Like Fair? I'm pretty sure or it's just a placebo effect, but Ganondorf's Fair landing lag seems much shorter and I think Bair has a longer end lag in the air as well.

I was thinking moreso into the Uair. Ganon's Fair might be safer than the knee though. I haven't really compared the two. I do know that Ganondorf's Bair autocancels about the same time though.

As a Ganondorf main in Melee and P:M, I'm compelled to abuse Bair and reverse Uair like my life depends on it - even in Smash 4.

 

[HFlash]

If I were you guys in this MU, I would play EXTREMELY defensive. 3 things make Falcon cry: Being short, having disjoints, and having projectiles to zone out. Since you guys kind of have good disjoints, but not quite as far as say Oli has, or the swordsmen, and your medium size, and your projectile can't wall us out, there isn't something stopping Falcon from going ham. o top it off, because it's so easy to keep you guys in the air and juggle, one Dthrow easily is 20-35 %. Just let the Falcon whiff moves and punish. I don't see how else you guys can play this MU. Please correct me of I'm wrong. At best even MU for Falco, or probably slightly in Falcon's favor.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Personally, I find the match-up to be 45:55 in Falco's favor.

Falcon's moveset is generally better at close range, but if you're a Falco that's utilizing throws, lasers and full hop reflector (when Falcon is approaching in the air), you'll have a generally easy time getting percentage in. Keep Falcon in the air above you if possible too. His Dair is a massive hitbox, but it's slow and easy to punish if he times it incorrectly. Just keep in mind that Falcon CAN fastfall with it to try and hit you if he's above you in the air (such as after a hit). But if you don't get hit or shield it, that's a free punish with practically whatever you want.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

True, Falco does have great jabs and tilts, except his tornado-like jab move, either way I don't think Capt has a away to get out of it outside of DI and a nair.
If we do have to box at close range, Falco can out range him.

I usually go for the dtilt or uptilt at low percent and follow up with a full hop fair or a SH bair depending on how much knockback there is.
Dtilt is an awesome move

 

[BlueBirdE]

When i saw the title of this thread I thought you were talking about me lol.
Honestly I find this mu in the range of 6:4 or 5:5. Falco has some tools for boxing falcon out and spacing himself with his high jump and side b, you just have to be careful. I listed a ton of combos falco can do on falcon and grab kill set ups in the combos thread so falcon is combo food for falco at times if he can get the right hit.

Ex. dthrow at 0% means falcon has to tech the ground because of his fast fall and if he misses you can link 3 ftilts then grab combo for about 60 - 70%.

Falcons speed and aerials are better than falcos in most situations so patience is the key. Falcon will go for a dash grab, dash, attack or an aerial so be prepared to jab to cancel grabs, shield for dash attacks and aerials and have a read on their follow ups.

 

[Ffamran]

Nah, the title comes from Captain Falcon and Falco's blue coloration and DJ Okawari's Bluebird Story. Captain Falcon wears primarily blue and has a F-Zero machine called the Blue Falcon while Falco's a Vietnamese pheasant and male Vietnamese pheasants have blue feathers. So, Bluebirds Story. So far, Captain Falcon, Zelda, and Samus's titles don't exactly relate to them from their franchises, but something else, but I digress.

 

[Zionaze]

Falco can apparently juke Cpt Falcon with D-throw near the edge of the stage. At low percents it glitches Falcon off the stage resulting in a weak stage spike, If you understand how this works you can immediately rush down and perform a B-air and really make Falcon get stage spiked.

 

[Darky-Sama]

This has actually happened to me a number of times. Falco has dashed past me while I was coming up from the ledge, performed a pivot grab and immediately down throwed. It registers Falcon beneath the ledge and causes the spike. It happens on different stages, but I know Battlefield has been the most frequent for me to be spiked on though.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I'm actually surprised this hasn't been patched out.
While it is an advantage, I feel it's an unfair advantage. Does anyone know if this works on any other character than Capt? I haven't seen it happen to anyone else.

 

[Zionaze]

It caught my friend off guard and was like wth

 

[Comet7]

This has actually happened to me a number of times. Falco has dashed past me while I was coming up from the ledge, performed a pivot grab and immediately down throwed. It registers Falcon beneath the ledge and causes the spike. It happens on different stages, but I know Battlefield has been the most frequent for me to be spiked on though.

this has happened in melee with fox's down throw and maybe falco's. just tech the ledge.

 

[Zionaze]

its just not what youd expect from a D-throw, so teching may not be the first thing you think of

 

[Darky-Sama]

And from how quickly it can happen - such as a dash though > pivot grab > immediate Dthrow while sliding - a person can't really react to that too well. The spike happens almost immediately after the throw connects too, so unless you were mashing shield from the start (lol at the thought of that), you likely won't be teching it. Now, if you were already expecting it to happen, you might be able to press something before hand to tech, but still kinda odd.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

its just not what youd expect from a D-throw, so teching may not be the first thing you think of

Taking this into consideration, Falco could play serious mindgames on Falcon with the threat of a stage spike or, if Falco already knows that Falcon expects such a thing, a throw off the stage could work to exert extra pressure, or uthrow to uair (I don't know if this will work on Falcon at low percents.) Basically it's free stage control no matter what.

This requires that Falco gets the initial grab though, and we need to think about what contexts allow Falco to do this. Such thoughts will influence Falcon as well, to avoid those situations at the risk of being put in a very difficult situation.

 

[Zionaze]

the area is pretty forgiving on where it stagespikes so you don't need to be right near the edge. Alse at lower % it doesn't kill them but you can get a gimp by immediately going for a Nair or Fair while their stunned

 

[Cyro]

Falco can apparently juke Cpt Falcon with D-throw near the edge of the stage. At low percents it glitches Falcon off the stage resulting in a weak stage spike, If you understand how this works you can immediately rush down and perform a B-air and really make Falcon get stage spiked.

This reply is extremely late, I know.
But for those that aren't aware...
SSB4: Falco's D-Throw Stage Spike (GLITCH)
I uploaded a video on it a while ago.
I have more info in the description if you're interested.

Originally Posted Here

 

[BluQTips]

I'm having quite a bit of trouble stopping Falcon's approaches. Lately, the good falcon's I've been facing weave in and out with pivot dashes, dash trotting, or straight up running and shield-stopping. While this makes it harder to respond with shield grabs, I feel the bigger problem is I can't really stop the rush down.
Short-hop into nair seems to get cancelled out by his dash attack while reflector can be shielded and punished because of end lag. Only decent option I have would be jab, which can also be cancelled out by his dash. I'll try avoiding the approach completely and roll or spot dodge sometimes but this puts me in an uncomfortable position because falcon will just turn and do his 3 hit jab.
When I have distance on him, I feel like I'm a brick wall about to be smashed by the hulk. When I'm close, it feels like my fist is getting crumpled by his head.
What do you feel are the best ways to soften up the falcon's approaches and trump the 3 hit jab combo?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm having quite a bit of trouble stopping Falcon's approaches. Lately, the good falcon's I've been facing weave in and out with pivot dashes, dash trotting, or straight up running and shield-stopping. While this makes it harder to respond with shield grabs, I feel the bigger problem is I can't really stop the rush down.
Short-hop into nair seems to get cancelled out by his dash attack while reflector can be shielded and punished because of end lag. Only decent option I have would be jab, which can also be cancelled out by his dash. I'll try avoiding the approach completely and roll or spot dodge sometimes but this puts me in an uncomfortable position because falcon will just turn and do his 3 hit jab.
When I have distance on him, I feel like I'm a brick wall about to be smashed by the hulk. When I'm close, it feels like my first is getting crumpled by his head.
What do you feel are the best ways to soften up the falcon's approaches and trump the 3 hit jab combo?

Honestly just Dash Attack and see how he responds to it. Obviously don't be reckless with it if you're at a range where he can KO you, but Falco's DA lasts a long time and has an excellent hitbox. Falcon has to respect this. Similarly RAR B-air is a decent option to throw out here and there that can stuff a number of things he does.