SSB 3DS - What should the ruleset be?

[menotyou135]

Pros and cons of separating platform ones and tower ones:

Pros:
Slightly more variance to stages you can CP

Cons:
Hard to explain to players
Characters bad on FD can't veto that map because they only have one veto in Bo3 making characters like kriby and jiggz unviable.

 

[Torn_Smash]

Pros and cons of separating platform ones and tower ones:

Pros:
Slightly more variance to stages you can CP

Cons:
Hard to explain to players
Characters bad on FD can't veto that map because they only have one veto in Bo3 making characters like kriby and jiggz unviable.

Hmm. Very true. Maybe it would be set up like

STARTER STAGES
Battlefield
Final Destination/Living Room (Omega)
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island

So that striking one would automatically strike the other?

 

[menotyou135]

Hmm. Very true. Maybe it would be set up like

STARTER STAGES
Battlefield
Final Destination/Living Room (Omega)
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island

So that striking one would automatically strike the other?

How would you make striking fair then? Have player one strike 1 and player 2 pick from the remaining 3? Have player 1 strike 2 and have player 2 pick from the remaining 2? Have each veto one and then player 1 picks? No matter how you do it, the picking process wouldn't be fair with 4 maps.

Overall there are a few options to deal with omega.

1) Your idea of picking one tower style and one plat style
2) Make Standard FD the only FD and ignore omega forms
3) Make all FDs count as picking random Omega
4) Make it where the winner/loser of the previous game gets to pick which FD if Omega is CPed with game 1 being normal FD
5) Separate FD and Omega into two separate maps with one being a neutral and one being a CP
6) Make the whole game Omega only with game 1 on standard FD and the loser CPs which FD they want
7) Ban FD entirely
8) Make a list of FDs that can be used and which ones can't (if any) and treat each one as a separate map.

Of these, I think that the best thing is that all omegas are treated as one map (FD). The first game goes to either standard FD or random FD. Then after that if FD is counterpicked, the CPer gets to chose which FD is picked OR it is just randomed.

Also, Standard FD isn't really a platform version. It is a halfway point. You can ride the wall on standard FD like you could in Melee. This means it is neither a, as you call it, platform version or a tower version. It is a concave version. I believe arena ferox's omega form is like this as well but don't quote me on that.

 

[Torn_Smash]

How would you make striking fair then? Have player one strike 1 and player 2 pick from the remaining 3? Have player 1 strike 2 and have player 2 pick from the remaining 2? Have each veto one and then player 1 picks? No matter how you do it, the picking process wouldn't be fair with 4 maps.

That's true if there are 4 starter stages, but Arena Ferox may be added to the list of starter stages, making the stage list look similar to Melee with 5 starter stages and 1 counter-pick (Reset Bomb Forest?). The only problem is that people are viewing Arena Ferox as the PS1 of Smash 3DS, so it would probably have to be a counter pick then.

Of these, I think that the best thing is that all omegas are treated as one map (FD). The first game goes to either standard FD or random FD. Then after that if FD is counterpicked, the CPer gets to chose which FD is picked OR it is just randomed.

This is probably the best solution to the problem since the differences between Tower and Platform are relatively small and it would give a little bit of advantage to the player counter-picking.

Ok so the stage selection would work like this:

-If FD is the starter stage, it is the standard Final Destination
-If FD is counter-picked, then the counter-picker can choose any Omega form stage

To make it more simple, the stage list would just look like this:

STARTER STAGES
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower

COUNTER-PICK
Omega form stages
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Forest

I guess SG9000 WAS right about making Omega form stages counter-pick

STARTER STAGES
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower

COUNTER STAGES
Arena Ferox
Jungle Japes
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomodachi Life (doubles only)
All Omega (FD) forms

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Starters are picked the same way as N64

Dreamland was the only starter in N64...

How would you make striking fair then?

I explained it in the match procedures section of my ruleset, which I will try out tonight with some friends.

I believe arena ferox's omega form is like this as well but don't quote me on that.

Actually, it's Omega form is both a concave and a tower stage.

Also, a few Omega stages, such as Rainbow Road and Jungle Japes, have concave ledges, despite being considered as platform stages.

I guess SG9000 WAS right about making Omega form stages counter-pick

Thank you! I've been thinking a lot about Omega stages and it's nice to see that someone agrees with my idea.

Also, I can't believe only two persons (including me) noticed the slight difference between the original FD and Platform Omega stages (the tentacles and crystals act as walls on FD, the only Omega stages to possess diagonal walls and the only Omega stage to have walls which don't extend to the bottom blastzone)

There's only one thing I didn't talk about in my ruleset: Mii Fighters. What's your opinion about it?

 

[menotyou135]

Dreamland was the only starter in N64...

Really? I went to a few N64 tournies (they were side events) and the ruleset was this:

Starter: Dreamland, Hyrule Castle, Dreamland

CP: Peach's castle.

I know japan did DL only.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Really? I went to a few N64 tournies (they were side events) and the ruleset was this:

Starter: Dreamland, Hyrule Castle, Dreamland

CP: Peach's castle.

I know japan did DL only.

Nope

http://smashboards.com/rulesets/smash-64/

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Dreamland was the only starter in N64...




I explained it in the match procedures section of my ruleset, which I will try out tonight with some friends.



Actually, it's Omega form is both a concave and a tower stage.

Also, a few Omega stages, such as Rainbow Road and Jungle Japes, have concave ledges, despite being considered as platform stages.

Thank you! I've been thinking a lot about Omega stages and it's nice to see that someone agrees with my idea.

Also, I can't believe only two persons (including me) noticed the slight difference between the original FD and Platform Omega stages (the tentacles and crystals act as walls on FD, the only Omega stages to possess diagonal walls and the only Omega stage to have walls which don't extend to the bottom blastzone)

There's only one thing I didn't talk about in my ruleset: Mii Fighters. What's your opinion about it?

Well, guess I was wrong about all Omega forms being the same. Fair enough. I messed up.
Anyway, will you record these matches? I'm curious about the Match Length issues everyone is talking about.
(And Character Matchups)
Mii Fighters should be allowed, but only if the Mii is based on the player.
Just to clarify, what stages will you be using?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sorry I can't record it, I don't have anythig to record it and I'm really bad at editing videos...

STARTER
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower

COUNTER
Arena Ferox
Jungle Japes
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomodachi Life (doubles only)
All Omega (FD) Forms

 

[SSS]

There has to be an odd number of starter stages for stage striking to work.

If you pick FD your opponent should be allowed to choose which Omega to go to lel.

 

[menotyou135]

There has to be an odd number of starter stages for stage striking to work.

If you pick FD your opponent should be allowed to choose which Omega to go to lel.

This. Basically there are 5 options. This is my list of them in how viable they are.
1) Make 3 starters BF, Yoshi, FD
2) Make 5 starters BF, Yoshi, FD, Prism tower, Arena Ferox
3) Make 5 starters BF, Yoshi, FD, Prism tower, Another FD
4) Start on Battlefield for all games
5) Omega only ruleset

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I've seen that problem while trying that ruleset. Some of my friends also wondered if Find Mii could be competiviely viable, and I wasn't quite sure if the whole color specific power-up would make it legal.....

Personally, for the staters, I have 2 ideas:

1.Make Prism Tower a counter
2.Make "Omega Random" a starter, the striking player would simply say "No Omega Random" to strike it

I'm curious about the Match Length issues everyone is talking about.

The only problem, as of tonight, was the stock number, 2 stocks was way to fast and stressful, might consider upgrading to 3.

 

[SSS]

Having both FD and Omega doesn't make any sense for stage striking. If someone wants to get rid of FD due to the lack of platforms, they'll also have to get rid of Omega, which means they'll be using both of their strikes to get rid of essentially one stage.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Prism as counter it is then

 

[Torn_Smash]

Having both FD and Omega doesn't make any sense for stage striking. If someone wants to get rid of FD due to the lack of platforms, they'll also have to get rid of Omega, which means they'll be using both of their strikes to get rid of essentially one stage.

I think the best way to do it is to have Final Destination and Omega Form be two sides of the same coin. Final Destination is the side that is a starter stage, while Omega Form is the counter pick side, where whoever counter-picks it can choose whichever Omega form they want or random. So you'll never have the option to strike both of them, just one of them since Final Destination is starter stage ONLY while Omega Form is counter-pick ONLY (Final Destination being included as a choice in Omega Form

So in a set, the stage selection would look like this:

GAME 1

STAGE SELECTION POOL
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

Striking happens, etc, etc, Game 1 happens

GAME 2

STAGE SELECTION POOL
Battlefield
Omega Form
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Forest
Prism Tower
Jungle Japes(?)

Stage selection happens, etc, etc, if Omega Form is chosen then the counter-picker can go to whatever Omega Form stage they want, Game 2 happens

Then in Game 3/4/5, this process is repeated

So in essence, Omega Form replaces Final Destination in any game after Game 1, so you would never have the option/disadvantage of being able to strike both

 

[SSS]

I think the best way to do it is to have Final Destination and Omega Form be two sides of the same coin. Final Destination is the side that is a starter stage, while Omega Form is the counter pick side, where whoever counter-picks it can choose whichever Omega form they want or random. So you'll never have the option to strike both of them, just one of them since Final Destination is starter stage ONLY while Omega Form is counter-pick ONLY (Final Destination being included as a choice in Omega Form

So in a set, the stage selection would look like this:

GAME 1

STAGE SELECTION POOL
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

Striking happens, etc, etc, Game 1 happens

GAME 2

STAGE SELECTION POOL
Battlefield
Omega Form
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Forest
Prism Tower
Jungle Japes(?)

Stage selection happens, etc, etc, if Omega Form is chosen then the counter-picker can go to whatever Omega Form stage they want, Game 2 happens

Then in Game 3/4/5, this process is repeated

So in essence, Omega Form replaces Final Destination in any game after Game 1, so you would never have the option/disadvantage of being able to strike both

So FD is taken out after game 1. That's fine, I guess?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So FD is taken out after game 1. That's fine, I guess?

No, it's not, because it is the original Omega

 

[Torn_Smash]

No, it's not, because it is the original Omega

Yeah, it's more like Only Final Destination for Game 1, and Final Destination and Friends for Games 2/3/4/5

 

[menotyou135]

If we do what torn is saying, I feel it would be much easier to just replace all that with omega random.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Actually, there are four types of Omega stages, which all alter gameplay quite drastically, which is why I wanted to separate them from FD.

ORIGINAL
Only Final Destination is considered an Original and his unique due to the concave walls on each side, which can help for recovery moves.

PLATFORM TYPE
Simple platform, nothing under it, pretty simple
Platform Omega Stages:
- Battlefield
- 3D Land
- Rainbow Road
- Jungle Japes
- Spirit Train
- Brinstar
- Corneria
- Prism Tower
- Magicant
- Flat Zone 2
- Gaur Plain

TOWER TYPE
The main platform extends to the bottom blastzone, making it impossible to go under it, it also allows certain moves to be efficiently used as recoveries in a different way, such as ZSS's down-B, which can give you the ability to perform four jumps (with the wall jump) as a very effective recoveries, which is not possible in other Omega stages.
Tower Omega Stages:
- Golden Plains
- Paper Mario
- Mushroomy Kingdom
- Gerudo Valley
- Yoshi's Island
- Dream Land
- Unova Pokemon League
- Reset Bomb Forest
- WarioWare, Inc.
- Distant Planet
- Tortimer Island
- Boxing Ring
- Balloon Fight
- Living Room
- Find Mii
- Tomodachi Life
- PictoChat 2
- Green Hill Zone
- Wily Caslte
- PAC-MAZE

FEROX TYPE
Arena Ferox seems to be the oddest of the bunch, it is a Tower Omega stage, but the tower itself is thinner than the main platform, since it also have FD's convace walls (sort of)


In short, not every Omega stage is the same and, even when I classify them, there are still some slight differences in terms of gameplay (Brinstar is thinner on the left side when compared to the right, Prism, Magicant and Gaur's platform is taller and its diagonal walls are more pronounced, Find Mii's platform gets slightly thinner as it goes down, Flat Zone 2's bricky layout, etc.)

 

[Torn_Smash]

If we do what torn is saying, I feel it would be much easier to just replace all that with omega random.

It would be easier, but then it creates a random factor when it comes to whether or not you'll get an Omega Form with certain properties over another, which I'm not a fan of. And I believe that letting the counter-picker pick the Omega Form stage solves the differences in Omega Form stages quite nicely since the counter-picker can choose whichever Omega Form is slightly better for them

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

you'll get an Omega Form with certain properties over another

My whole post in a sentence LOL

Let's talk about other stages now

Here is what I have

(?)--> Simple suggestion, haven't tried it yet but SEEMS to be tourney-legal

STARTER
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island

COUNTER
Find Mii(?)
Arena Ferox
Prism Tower
Jungle Japes(?)
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomodachi Life (doubles only)
Omega Forms

Any suggestions/complaints/insults about that stage list?

 

[menotyou135]

Anybody think Unova pokemon league has potential as a CP? The more I play it the easier it is for me to deal with the hazards. The only one that throws the game off is the fire, which is easy to just stall out PS1 style. The walkoffs are temporary, and the electric explosion that breaks the stairs is telegraphed well in advance like on halberd from brawl.

It isn't that bad of a map.

The problem I am seeing is that there are a lot of stages that are almost there in competitive viability, but just barely bull****. They are good except for one or two things: Japes is okay minus the hazards and water, Brinestar is good minus the lava, Tomadachi life is fair but is just too big, Unova is good for the most part but has wierd hazards, Rainbow road is like delphino plaza but has the cart hazards, reset bomb forest has a n64 temple style layout until the explosion happens, pictochat has some decent layouts but others that are too random, Magicant has good platforms, but has the flying men, Wily castle has great platform setups, but has the yellow devil, Toramier is fine but has random items spawn, Mute city doesn't have bottom blast zones, Wario ware has minigames, Find mii has the dragon, Spirit train doesn't have bottom blast zones, corneria has lazers and a wall.

That's 15 maps.

It's like Sakurai went out of his way to make sure that maps were almost good enough to use, but still to random or annoying. We almost had a **** ton of amazing maps to the point of it being the best map list, but sakurai wanted to make sure that as few were competitively viable as possible.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Anybody think Unova pokemon league has potential as a CP? The more I play it the easier it is for me to deal with the hazards. The only one that throws the game off is the fire, which is easy to just stall out PS1 style. The walkoffs are temporary, and the electric explosion that breaks the stairs is telegraphed well in advance like on halberd from brawl.

It isn't that bad of a map.

The problem I am seeing is that there are a lot of stages that are almost there in competitive viability, but just barely bull****. They are good except for one or two things: Japes is okay minus the hazards and water, Brinestar is good minus the lava, Tomadachi life is fair but is just too big, Unova is good for the most part but has wierd hazards, Rainbow road is like delphino plaza but has the cart hazards, reset bomb forest has a n64 temple style layout until the explosion happens, pictochat has some decent layouts but others that are too random, Magicant has good platforms, but has the flying men, Wily castle has great platform setups, but has the yellow devil, Toramier is fine but has random items spawn, Mute city doesn't have bottom blast zones, Wario ware has minigames, Find mii has the dragon, Spirit train doesn't have bottom blast zones, corneria has lazers and a wall.

That's 15 maps.

It's like Sakurai went out of his way to make sure that maps were almost good enough to use, but still to random or annoying. We almost had a **** ton of amazing maps to the point of it being the best map list, but sakurai wanted to make sure that as few were competitively viable as possible.

...until the Wii U version gets released.....


Sakurai, you're a genius!!!!