Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[Zwarm]

Tech chase = anything they can do to you on the ground in a tech/roll situation, whether you choose to tech or not, throws put you in a vulnerable state

 

[Sir Skaro]

I feel like it's very easy to edge guard Marth & Roy as Squirtle. If you knock them into the mid-upper regions off stage, grab ledge, and then wait for 2 or 3 Swords Dances. Once they are slightly lower than the ledge, fast fall back, double jump, and back air. If they don't have their double jump, then it's practically impossible for a successful recovery.

 

[Burnsy]

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I think Squirtle does better against Swords and Lords than one would think if you are mainly focusing on their range advantage. The reason he can compete with them is due to his superior mobility and ability to bait out laggy moves.

I think tech chasing IS a big weakness for Squirtle. Good thing he is one of, if not the absolute hardest character to grab in the game.

Also, why the hell dont I get watched thread alerts from here? This whole time I've been missing out on squirt discussion!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yeah, in my experience, PM Squirtle has some nice tools for mitigating the range advantage that a lot of characters struggle with against sword dudes. It's refreshing. Sliding in and out makes much more of a difference against characters that tend to be a bit more linear (which is what I would consider Marth/Roy, personally).

 

[Sir Skaro]

Has anyone else ever done a wave land that completely launches you across the stage, throwing you into a tumble when you fall off? I've done it twice now and I have no idea how it works, all I know is that I was attempting a wave land.

 

[SpiderMad]

How far a distance across the stage?

 

[Bones0]

Has anyone else ever done a wave land that completely launches you across the stage, throwing you into a tumble when you fall off? I've done it twice now and I have no idea how it works, all I know is that I was attempting a wave land.

You are sliding off of a platform/stage backwards while shielding. If you release shield you won't tumble. If you slide off facing forward, your shield just gets ledgecanceled. If you go into tumble, you can wiggle out or attack after a brief amount of lag. This is the same effect that makes people die on YS when they light shield on Randall. lol

 

[GenericName]

It's actually squirtle's momentum.

If you do a hydroplane fsmash the resulting momentum can be so great that it will literally just fling him off stage. It's really weird. (This is an example.)

 

[Bones0]

It's actually squirtle's momentum.

If you do a hydroplane fsmash the resulting momentum can be so great that it will literally just fling him off stage. It's really weird. (This is an example.)

Yeah, any momentum can carry you off stage, but you will only go into tumble if you slide off backwards while shielding.

 

[Sir Skaro]

How far a distance across the stage?

I'm not sure what the maximum distance is, but it's easily over half of FD, if not the whole stage and then some.

You are sliding off of a platform/stage backwards while shielding. If you release shield you won't tumble. If you slide off facing forward, your shield just gets ledgecanceled. If you go into tumble, you can wiggle out or attack after a brief amount of lag. This is the same effect that makes people die on YS when they light shield on Randall. lol

I'm no where near the ledge when I waveband though, and I don't usually wave land into a shield. My opponents weren't in close proximity to me both times this happened.

I'm just wondering how Squirtle blows through Newton's laws (because this game adheres to them completely...) and is able to shoot himself faster than Sanic can run.

 

[Burnsy]

I'm just wondering how Squirtle blows through Newton's laws (because this game adheres to them completely...) and is able to shoot himself faster than Sanic can run.

Reflex already answered that, he's been lathered up with Crisco.

For real though, I'm pretty damn sure that Bones is right. You went into tumble because you were shielding on the frame that you moved off the stage from your waveland.

 

[Sir Skaro]

For real though, I'm pretty damn sure that Bones is right. You went into tumble because you were shielding on the frame that you moved off the stage from your waveland.

I feel like he's right too, but I don't see why I would be holding L or R after a wave land away nor do I remember pressing L or R. Is there no other possible way for a character to go into a tumble?

 

[GenericName]

It's not because you're shielding. Squirtle can be flung off stage and into tumble with his own momentum.

 

[Bones0]

It's not because you're shielding. Squirtle can be flung off stage and into tumble with his own momentum.

Video example?

 

[GenericName]

You can do it yourself? All you have to do is hydroplane and charge squirtle's fsmash with the c-stick and z button. If you do it right he should slide in the direction of the ss, pause for a moment while the fsmash comes out, resume momentum toward the end and increase speed until he's flung off into tumble.

 

[SpiderMad]

just record your TV for him/us @ GenericName

I don't recall sliding off in tumble unless I accidently shield at the end

 

[GenericName]

I dont have a way of recording it. My wii is not with me. And it's seriously not difficult so yeah.

 

[SpiderMad]

oh 10nowiis

 

[SpiderMad]

I dont have a way of recording it. My wii is not with me. And it's seriously not difficult so yeah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlJNugitwMQ Here's an old video, I need to see what you're doing cus when he slides off he didn't go into tumble (though I did switch directions before going off. I'ma test later tonight

 

[Bones0]

You can do it yourself? All you have to do is hydroplane and charge squirtle's fsmash with the c-stick and z button. If you do it right he should slide in the direction of the ss, pause for a moment while the fsmash comes out, resume momentum toward the end and increase speed until he's flung off into tumble.

Are you holding Z as you slide off?

 

[GenericName]

You go into tumble if your back is to the edge while you're sliding towards it. And that's 2.5 or 2.6, squirtle goes MUCH farther and faster with hydro fsmash in 3.02

 

[GenericName]

And no. You have to let go of Z to have the smash come out

 

[SpiderMad]

I use the C-stick when I do it, I'ma test it right now by the way

 

[Sir Skaro]

I slide off all the time facing the ledge and all Squirtle does is grab the ledge after a minuet pause. He doesn't go into tumble unless you shield right before you fall off. You can confirm this more easily if you use the large platform on Smashville or Noirfair.

 

[SpiderMad]

Tested it, you're holding shield. you either grab the edge, or hold down to not grab the edge and slide off but you're falling normally. If you hold Shield you fly off like a rocket in the same way you would with SWD and hold shield with Samus.

I was also trying to do reverse hydroplane thing F-smash, which might not be able to be performed in 3.0 or something:you'd be doing a hydrplane F-smash facing in the direction that you were sliding. you can still do a shell shift to f-smash but I mean I wasn't able to get it to get the actual momentum boost as I use to

 

[SpiderMad]

Uhhh, what the hell is this? You can't DJ/WL out of Bair or Dair anymore?

"- Due to the SCD bugfix, much of Squirtle’s moveset required physics compensations. His gravity was also slightly increased "

Crap, that screwed over the 1 frame he had to perform the techniques..

This also kills SH Double Nair, and detriments SH Double Fair, among probably more

 

[Bones0]

You go into tumble if your back is to the edge while you're sliding towards it. And that's 2.5 or 2.6, squirtle goes MUCH farther and faster with hydro fsmash in 3.02

I WD off stage constantly throughout a match, and I almost never go into tumble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF3fF7bPFYM#t=12m53s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF3fF7bPFYM#t=13m25s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF3fF7bPFYM#t=13m40s

And no. You have to let go of Z to have the smash come out

No you don't. You can just hold it until it's fully charged and it will release automatically.

 

[GenericName]

I WD off stage constantly throughout a match, and I almost never go into tumble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF3fF7bPFYM#t=12m53s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF3fF7bPFYM#t=13m25s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF3fF7bPFYM#t=13m40s


No you don't. You can just hold it until it's fully charged and it will release automatically.

First of all, WD doesn't give you enough momentum to be sent into tumble.

And you do have to let go, because otherwise you'll stop at the edge of the stage.

 

[Bones0]

First of all, WD doesn't give you enough momentum to be sent into tumble.

And you do have to let go, because otherwise you'll stop at the edge of the stage.

Too bad this whole discussion started with someone asking why they went into tumble from a waveland.

 

[GenericName]

And too bad we already solved that and moved into why a hydro fsmash sends squirtle into tumble instead.

 

[Bones0]

And too bad we already solved that and moved into why a hydro fsmash sends squirtle into tumble instead.

You said it wasn't because he shielded, yet I haven't heard anyone confirm that you can send yourself into tumble with a hydro fsmash.

You also said WDing doesn't give you enough momentum to send you into tumble, but if you shield before sliding off you go into tumble no matter how little momentum you had.

 

[GenericName]

Holding shield while WDing off is irrelevant to hydro fsmashing...?

And I'll probably record video of it tonight after I get my wii back.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Actually, I think the situation is that you can't go into tumble from your landing animation, which is why you can shield while facing backward and go into it but not wavedash backward off of it. F-Smashing while sliding puts you in neutral before you fall off.

 

[Jawsome]

When you hydro f-smash and slide towards the edge there's a certain frame window before you slide off that if you grab (press z) you go into the tumble animation and go super far offstage from the momentum. I'm not sure what happens if you shield instead at that time.

Spidermad said this earlier as well

 

[GenericName]

So when I hydro fsmash and try the holding Z for shield, squirtle just grabs the ledge instead of going into tumble now. Before he would literally just be flung from the stage when I had let go of the fsmash when he reached the ledge.
I tried shielding, and he did go into tumble from it, but it was nowhere near the speed and distance he was being thrown before

 

[Bones0]

Wow, what a surprise.

 

[GenericName]

Finally replicated it. I guess I was bumping the Zr button on my controller, and managed to hit that grab frame?

Idk. Would only happen when I gave myself room to slide for a bit across the stage.

Anyways, uploading video atm, posting link when it's done

 

[GenericName]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quxgBfyoSfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

First manage it about halfway in.
Ipad does sketchy recording

 

[Sir Skaro]

Well, you learn something new every day. I want to see that used in an edge guard situation before I die.

The crazy tumble in that video is basically the same thing I experienced, but instead of a hydroplane fsmash I just WDed with a copious amount of momentum, not touching the C-stick at all. I may just be crazy, I don't know. In both situations I was WDing away, with my back the the ledge. Hmmm, if you hold the L or R button after a wavedash, does your shield pop up? Perhaps I didn't let go fast enough.

 

[Burnsy]

Perhaps I didn't let go fast enough.

Bingo