Speed or Combos

[Surri-Sama]

Right now im playing online ssb on EGX (some people know this allready but also some do not) and i've found my skill has come to a slump and im not really getting any better (not that i can see or compare anyways) and i was wondering what should i work on now, the Speed of my chars or my comboing ability, some of yous seen me play online so you can base off that, or you can just post in general what people who know the advanced techs (Z-Cancle, SH, dash dance and pivot) need to focus on to get better. If needed i can post a video of my game play...but ill only do that if needed, Thanks for your help...if i egt any anyways

 

[MattNF]

I've never played you but I think comboing ability is potentially more useful. Even if you don't move fast, once you get an opponent into a good combo speed won't matter.

But at the same time, speed is good for mindgamez... but I still prefer combos.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I've never played you but I think comboing ability is potentially more useful. Even if you don't move fast, once you get an opponent into a good combo speed won't matter.

But at the same time, speed is good for mindgamez... but I still prefer combos.

You have played me, look at my sig son

 

[Zantetsu2]

I'd say mindgames over anything. If you watch any melee videos you see that the top pros move a lot slower then the regular pros, but they still own everyone. Also, there isn't much people on kaillera who use mindgames. I don't remember ever saying "how the hell did he know I was gonna do that!?".

 

[Surri-Sama]

I'd say mindgames over anything. If you watch any melee videos you see that the top pros move a lot slower then the regular pros, but they still own everyone. Also, there isn't much people on kaillera who use mindgames. I don't remember ever saying "how the hell did he know I was gonna do that!?".

hmm, maybe with ssb64 there isnt alot of mind games to be played like in melee (not saying there are none but) DashDancing seems to be the only one worth wild and that has little pay off...Samus has her Bomb skill for sick mind games and slow roll but thats all she has to make up for her DEAD comboing ability

 

[MattNF]

You have played me, look at my sig son

Haha whoops, sorry. I had signatures turned off.

I don't remember ever saying "how the hell did he know I was gonna do that!?".

You probably never played Isai then.

 

[JaimeHR]

You need to play with BEEF!Man! more often.

 

[Nephiros]

hmm, maybe with ssb64 there isnt alot of mind games to be played like in melee (not saying there are none but) DashDancing seems to be the only one worth wild and that has little pay off...Samus has her Bomb skill for sick mind games and slow roll but thats all she has to make up for her DEAD comboing ability

I don't think "there isn't a lot of mindgames to be played like in melee", but well if you prefer, just play smart. If you already know and perform the advanced techs, that's what you should focus on since your combos and speed will improve over time anyway.

 

[Moocow007]

hmm, maybe with ssb64 there isnt alot of mind games to be played like in melee (not saying there are none but) DashDancing seems to be the only one worth wild and that has little pay off...Samus has her Bomb skill for sick mind games and slow roll but thats all she has to make up for her DEAD comboing ability

mindgames aren't techniques, it's just being able to read your opponent sooo yes it does exist in full in SSB64. dashdancing and the such play into this, sure, but it's not just that. you've gotta be able to work around your opponent. don't get hit.

 

[greenblob]

Well, if you don't know the basic all-purpose combos, you should work on them right away. Those are the basics.

 

[Wenbobular]

Learn how to observe your opponent
I've played you a couple times I think...just don't get hit as much

 

[_kSo_]

once you can move around with grace, im sure the combos will come naturally

also, you could have the best mindgames in the world and the worst tech skill, yet still be the best player in the world. however if you have the worst mindgames in the world, but the best tech, you won't necessarily be the best player in the world.

when it comes down to it, if you have better mindgames than your opponent, you will beat them.

well, to a certain extent. if your tech skill is horrible and the opponent's tech skill is really good, then maybe you'll have some trouble, but you get my gist

 

[SheerMadness]

Play melee competitively. It really helps your ssb64 game.

 

[Dash_Fox]

Play melee competitively. It really helps your ssb64 game.

And vice-versa.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Play melee competitively. It really helps your ssb64 game.

Seriously? i wish i could do this but living in a small town prevents that >_<

 

[SuperDanny]

I find myself using mindgames more and more now, especially with Falcon Punch. Squaring off my opponents recovery route or charging a punch in a place I think he'll tech roll into are ways I've been able to land punches outside of combos. Of course, whenever I play against really good players, I'm not able to use mindgames well, usually it's just a lucky guess with most of my Falcon Punches.

If any of you have played me on EGX you've probably noticed this. I'm not too good with combos, and I rarely Z-cancel at will, but I do tend to get in lucky punches a lot. They're mostly guesses though, I never actually find myself "reading" opponents. I made a short Youtube video with some clips, but the footage in it is pretty old:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdutrHIQXRE

 

[Frogles]

it goes like this: mindgames/tactics > speed > combos

but yah ill say that they are all important and work with each other. neglecting one will surely cause DEATH.

true story

 

[KESHIKI]

I don't think mindgame is that important . It is just a wild guess.
Probability of making a right guess out of so many possible choices cannot be that high as you see intuitively. Experience helps but not that much.

What's more important is tactics, which often increases the probability by reducing the possible choices of moves.


In addition, mindgame tends to be very risky.

Mindgame→If you miss it, you will most likely get counter hit. In many cases, high risk/high return.
Combo→Even if you miss it, you do not get hurt. No risk/high return


ps. sorry but I don't have many ideas about speed.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I don't think mindgame is that important . It is just a wild guess.
Probability of making a right guess out of so many possible choices cannot be that high as you see intuitively. Experience helps but not that much.

What's more important is tactics, which often increases the probability by reducing the possible choices of moves.


In addition, mindgame tends to be very risky.

Mindgame→If you miss it, you will most likely get counter hit. In many cases, high risk/high return.
Combo→Even if you miss it, you do not get hurt. No risk/high return


ps. sorry but I don't have many ideas about speed.

This doesnt seem right, a few of the otheres here (who i know are reallygood) say mind games...so mind games it is thanks alot folks, mods can close this now if they want to stop spam :D again thanks

 

[onegoal...heaven]

Hycon, I taught you a new move today, the falling dash pivot, so use that to your advantage. I say this, mindgames>speed>combos XD. the more techs u learn for your falcon, the better because it's also mindgames. you remember the falling dash pivot? Use that for mindgames. A move most keyboard players overlook is the shorthopping outta shield tech. Use that. and Hycon, you already got good mindgames, all you RLLY need to improve on is speed, not with your hands, but mind. Remember how I was vsing you today? Well, I won because I adapted quick enough....you just have to learn how to think fast because your z canceling and tech with your fingers is awesome enough. Here is an example...
I was vsing boom one day and he did this combo, I DI'd outta it and IMMEDIATLY he adapted and seamlessly did another combo that ended off with an FP Finisher XD. I won't go into details but you just gotta listen to Neph, it will come in time, it's a matter of just playing and having fun. If you have fun, you'll get better without knowing it XD.

 

[Nephiros]

Sirhc, a lot of people seems to confuse "mindgames" with "playing smart", which is similar to tactics.

 

[ant-d]

You can't separate all these things. They all go together. It's obvious.

 

[_kSo_]

This doesnt seem right, a few of the otheres here (who i know are reallygood) say mind games...so mind games it is thanks alot folks, mods can close this now if they want to stop spam :D again thanks

keshiki is probably better than all the previous people who replied 0_o

what he says makes a lot of sense, actually. And neph said exactly what I was going to mention; playing smart and mindgames are similar, but not identical. playing smart is the most important, as in performing actions that in turn produce the least amount of risk and produce the most amount of power

i dunno if i was able to make my point properly, but thats the gist of it

 

[KESHIKI]

In Japan, we think the most important aspects of this game is Combo and Tactics/Playing smart.
and we do not know which is more important. well, it does not have to be stated, they are both very important, and people think differently about this.

Here is a brief history of Japanese SSB scene.

Most Japanese players had been working on Tactics last 2-3 years or so, mainly because Redmario was on top of Japanese SSB64 scene even though he mains in low tier character, Mario. But Prince came into this and showed his beautiful combos, so a lot of players (even though they do not have much technique as Prince does) went for trying fancy combos which reduced their accuracy of combo.

So for a long period of time, many Japanese players (including me) were like
"I know tactics is very important but I wanna do fancy combo like Prince does."
If you play this game purely just for fun thats OK, but it is contradicted if you want to win.

and then Isai came to Japan, and killed us all pretty much.
We didn't understand why he was so devastating, but there was one thing we knew for sure.
If you get hit from Isai, you will be comboed to death pretty much.

so, we were reminded of the importance in the accuracy of combos.
(if you can make it fancy like Isai does thats great but its not essential)

Now, many players, like Tsukuru, started working on accuracy.
when I last played 4-stock match against him online,
he first did easy stable U-air falcon combo twice, which is very hard to DI out of especially in Japanese version.
I was now tired of doing DI. and the last two stock, he noticed that I was not gonna do DI anymore, and started trying some fancy combos.

I lost but I thought it was such a beautiful way of winning and applauded him.

He knows
what he is capable of
what he is not yet capable of
and what he wants to do.

 

[omfgomfg]

KESHIKIIIIIIIIIIII

wat a beautiful poem

Spoiler

(That was sarcasm, people. I know it isn't a poem.)

 

[l0telephone0l]

That was beautiful...

 

[Surri-Sama]

In Japan, we think the most important aspects of this game is Combo and Tactics/Playing smart.
and we do not know which is more important. well, it does not have to be stated, they are both very important, and people think differently about this.

Here is a brief history of Japanese SSB scene.

Most Japanese players had been working on Tactics last 2-3 years or so, mainly because Redmario was on top of Japanese SSB64 scene even though he mains in low tier character, Mario. But Prince came into this and showed his beautiful combos, so a lot of players (even though they do not have much technique as Prince does) went for trying fancy combos which reduced their accuracy of combo.

So for a long period of time, many Japanese players (including me) were like
"I know tactics is very important but I wanna do fancy combo like Prince does."
If you play this game purely just for fun thats OK, but it is contradicted if you want to win.

and then Isai came to Japan, and killed us all pretty much.
We didn't understand why he was so devastating, but there was one thing we knew for sure.
If you get hit from Isai, you will be comboed to death pretty much.

so, we were reminded of the importance in the accuracy of combos.
(if you can make it fancy like Isai does thats great but its not essential)

Now, many players, like Tsukuru, started working on accuracy.
when I last played 4-stock match against him online,
he first did easy stable U-air falcon combo twice, which is very hard to DI out of especially in Japanese version.
I was now tired of doing DI. and the last two stock, he noticed that I was not gonna do DI anymore, and started trying some fancy combos.

I lost but I thought it was such a beautiful way of winning and applauded him.

He knows
what he is capable of
what he is not yet capable of
and what he wants to do.

wow i never thought of anything like this o.o;; so your saying (just to make this clear) that its the accuracy of my combos and how i learn to apply them successfuly that matters?