Specific Characters Match-up: Pikachu vs Rosalina and Luma

[Felth]

I know that there's a Matchup Thread. But I don't like that the information is spread among different pages because the discussion can be changed to different characters and that could be a little messy. To avoid this, I suggest the following idea: one post for each character. Following some general points I'll organize all the post in a very simple way.

I propose to study in this post the Rosalina MU. If you want to discuss other Matchup and you liked my idea just write a post following this idea. Suggestions of any type are welcome (I'm not an expert of Smash so it's probably that you know more than me about this).

Rosalina and Luma:

​

• Neutral Game:

• Stage selection and Ban:

• Specific Situations:
  • Ground - Ground:
  • Ground - Air:
  • Air - Air:
  • Off Stage:
  • Some situation to punish or to look (Situations that are advantageous to pikachu vs this character)
  • Situations to avoid?

Extra information:
​

• I don't want to lose all the information that the community has discovered at this point. Most of this theory it's in the MU Thread.

• You can read the document made by the User Umbreoff which summarizes the previous post. Click here to see the document. I'm transcribing this document into a pdf version with access to new options. If you want to check the progress of this document I'll invite you to see the PDF Online Version.

• With respect to the Killing Section: add Good Set-ups to perform the killing (not just the final attack). Set-ups performed in specific Stages are also welcome.

• With respect to the Stage Selection Section: we should discuss what stages to avoid and what stages are good for Pikachu. The Smash Player Esam made a Depth Analysis on each Stage. Recall that some stages could be good for Pikachu but are even better for other character that's the reason for why we should discuss this kind of things here (one example is Halberd: IMO is good for Pikachu but not against Meta Knight).

• With respect to the Difficulty Section we should discuss how difficult is this MU for Pikachu. If it's possible it would be good to associate a measure to this difficulty. I think that this section should be completed once we developed a lot of theory in the corresponding MU, otherwise is just speculation.

• With respect to the Specific Situations Section we should discuss what to do in both scenarios.

 

[SafCar]

Protip: NEVER use Thunder on her, especially offstage. We run the risk of getting meteored when she Down Bs it. We can bait her Down B with Thunder Jolt and close in on her, but killing Luma will be difficult for us. Luma can't shield, which should make FSmash more viable for killing it, but I can't remember if Dair knocks Luma back.

Her disjoints can hurt our recovery, but her recovery options are limited too. If she UpB's, we can read and go for a stage spike with Bair/Dair.

We need to poke RosaLuma and see how they react to our approaches.

 

[AcePikachu]

Up Tilt, Dash Attack (Risky), and Fsmash are quick ways to be rid of Luma.

If you manage to Up Tilt both Rosalina and Luma, target the luma, as 9 times out of 10, up tilt sends luma flying at a nice angle for a follow up, be it fair, bair, or nair (I recommend nair, it IS the strongest hit)

I say Dash Attack is risky because while it sends luma a nice distance away, if sheilded, you're going to eat a heavy punish, which can potentially cost you the game. I'd only recommend this at low percentages or to punish a landing option. (This may even kill Rosalina herself at high percentages! )

I'd treat Fsmash the same as Dash Attack to be honest. Both are risky options. Fsmash MIGHT be slightly safer due to its push back on non perfect sheilds, it's still easily punishable. Luma may be hit though!

I personally think how effectively you can get rid of luma in general decides the winner of the MU. If you can't eliminate that beast, your damage will be racking up quickly. While the both of you may be light weighted, Luma's high KB is a real threat that can end Pikachu with a simple read as early as 70-80%.

A tricky match up overall imo.

 

[AcePikachu]

If this isn't custom Rosa, approaching shouldn't be all that hard. She needs to be about mid range to start being any real threat.

Consider conditioning her with thunder jolt to get her into using gravitational pull recklessly. After a while, if it seems work, shoot one last thunder jolt and immediately punish with quick attack and get a combo going.

You yourself need to be careful as well. Recklessly thunder jolting can get you punished instead like in any other MU. Watch how Rosa deals with the projectiles and react accordingly.

 

[Tonetta]

Hi, I came to this board to practice this specific matchup, I'm a samus main but I'm trying to work in a rosalina on the samus counters so if anybody doesn't mind kicking around a fledgling rosalina for awhile my NNID is Tonetta7

 

[Uncle Honey]

The most difficult part of this matchup is the neutral and weighing ledge get-up options since Pikachu is not as good at zoning as Rosaluma and powering through the zoning game can be tricky. I played several matches against a rosa tonight when I would take loads of percent in neutral or from the ledge, but once I got her off stage the gimps rolled in. Do any players have any experience to add regarding neutral and ledge game?

 

[Wishes And Sunshine]

I was annihilated by Rosalina. The down-tilt makes me want to tear out my hair, as does that Luma. My Thunder Jolts are either shielded or taken by that star-shaped pillow.

 

[iVoltage]

Normally I'll use dash attack to kill luma even if it means a punish, that's a fair trade if you aren't at higher percentage. Once the stupid star is gone you can pretty much go hard on rosalina all you want.

 

[Uncle Honey]

Normally I'll use dash attack to kill luma even if it means a punish, that's a fair trade if you aren't at higher percentage. Once the stupid star is gone you can pretty much go hard on rosalina all you want.

Dash attack to kill luma only works if they're near the ledge. Rosa controlling center stage can be tough. How do you break her zoning or force her to the edge to go for a dash attack?

 

[iVoltage]

Dash attack to kill luma only works if they're near the ledge. Rosa controlling center stage can be tough. How do you break her zoning or force her to the edge to go for a dash attack?

I'm not very experienced with the mu, but yeah I forgot to say that it only knocks off the side.

 

[Underhill]

This MU is good for Pikachu. While its not bad for Rosalina, its not good at the same time and here's why.

: He can pressure, combo, has better frame data, and can jiggle. Plus, he's small and not easy to punish. Forward smash, down smash, dash attack, down-air, and SH f-airs can split both R&L up, even if she shields. Forward throw's shocking hitbox can do the job as well since Luma can't attack you out of it. Damage as well. If you can get her to the edge by trapping her or forcing a roll, then you can dash attack Luma to get him off-stage even if she shields. Without Luma, you can rush her down, pressure, and best her with your better frame data. Be aggressive and start combing her and bringing out pressure on her with no space as possible. Huge target for it due to tall hurtbox and her hitboxs don't have any way to deal with QA unless spaced correctly to do so. Up-tiles, up-airs, aerials, good place to start combing and pressuring. Jolts can used to start baiting GP since Pikachu has no problems approaching even more than , thanks to QA, jolts, and ground mobility. Jiggle will be your best bet on Rosalina because she's floaty and has unsafe landings outside of lunar landings. Also, up-airs and up-tiles to keep the jiggling going since she's a big target for it. Up-smash, grabs, up-tile, forward smash, and so on for mix ups to jiggle and pressure. His f-air is faster than her n-air so use it if you see it. Also maybe up-air, up-tile, forward smash(spaced), or up-smash(Oos or spaced) as well. Your aerials are faster than her and less punishable, too. Off-stage game is a weapon for our yellow mouse to success since she has no hitbox on her recovery. B-air for stage spiking, f-airs for gimps and even if she come back safely, Luma will be gone. Down-air and n-air for gimps if you read and get her in high percents. Thunder is risky off-stage thanks to her GP, so don't try it unless you want her to kill you. If you ledge trump her or she grabs the ledge twice, then you can either down-smash, down tile, up-tile, jolt, or forward smash.

: Even though Pikachu got the advantage on her, she can still cause problems for him. Her range can be a serious issue for him with her f-tile, jabs, n-air, b-air, and down-tile since he has low range and can be out-ranged and out-spaced. Luma's jabs can hit through the jolts so keep that mind. Do not challenge her up-tile and up-snash while on the way to the ground because they're anti-air moves and they beat every aerials that Pikachu has, especially with Luma. Unless Pikachu has enough length to reach the ground to QA and maybe fast fall, then she can jiggle him with up-airs and even kill him since he's light and slighty floaty, himself. His aerials outside of thunder are beaten out by her up-airs and if she reads the thunder, then there's a good chance that you'll get punished for it. Don't get over confident off-stage because she has some things on him even though Pikachu is difficult to gimp and he can edgeguard better. If you're recovering low and she catches you with b-air or down-air, then QA can be beaten out. Her down-air can beat out QA and will either spike you down or hit you with Luma's hitbox for a stage spike(if you can tech). Plus, b-air for a stage spike as well. If she spaces her b-air and timed it right after reading the QA, then you'll be hit out of it. Also, your skull bash can be spiked on by Rosalina's down-air or hit out of by Luma's hitbox so be careful not to get read on. Ledge trump and ledge guard is still there for her so even though QA can help avoid the ledge, you still have to keep in mind that if you grab the ledge twice, then you can get down-smash, forward smash(angled down), down-tile, or down-air(Rosalina's hitbox) by. Even though she's light and his attacks are less punishable, her kill potential is better than his, especially with rage since Pikachu is light, himself and has trouble killing outside of edgeguarding. But slighty though. Her ground speed is good.

Stages: Avoid Delfino Plaza and Halberb because those stages benefit Rosalina more than Pikachu and the stage have low ceiling. Even though you can QA cancel with platforms, mix up recovering, and get vertical kills, Her vertical kills are stronger, as so her jiggling game, escepically if you're on top of her and on platforms for Rosalina to pressure and give you trouble landing, even with Quick attack. Plus, she can use the platforms for her recovery. Battlefield, good for both and same stuff like the other stages above, but normal stage, larger blastzones for both characters to live longer and to make use of platforms. Dreamland, same as BF, but low ceiling for Rosalina's vertical kills, wind blowing, and more space. Town & City, low ceiling for vertical kills, more space to run around, and there's platforms to make use off of. Duck Hunt and Lylat cruise, pick those stages because they help you more than her. Lylat cruise, moving stage can screw with her recovery. Duck Hunt, wall jump for you to jump on walls for mix ups under the ledge, space, no platforms so she's at risk to get punished if she chooses to avoid the ledge, the dog can troll and so on. Use the tree for a early up throw kill if you grab her, but be mindful that she can do the same if she grabs you.

 

[iVoltage]

This MU is good for Pikachu. While its not bad for Rosalina, its not good at the same time and here's why.

: He can pressure, combo, has better frame data, and can jiggle. Plus, he's small and not easy to punish. Forward smash, down smash, dash attack, down-air, and SH f-airs can split both R&L up, even if she shields. Forward throw's shocking hitbox can do the job as well since Luma can't attack you out of it. Damage as well. If you can get her to the edge by trapping her or forcing a roll, then you can dash attack Luma to get him off-stage even if she shields. Without Luma, you can rush her down, pressure, and best her with your better frame data. Be aggressive and start combing her and bringing out pressure on her with no space as possible. Huge target for it due to tall hurtbox and her hitboxs don't have any way to deal with QA unless spaced correctly to do so. Up-tiles, up-airs, aerials, good place to start combing and pressuring. Jolts can used to start baiting GP since Pikachu has no problems approaching even more than , thanks to QA, jolts, and ground mobility. Jiggle will be your best bet on Rosalina because she's floaty and has unsafe landings outside of lunar landings. Also, up-airs and up-tiles to keep the jiggling going since she's a big target for it. Up-smash, grabs, up-tile, forward smash, and so on for mix ups to jiggle and pressure. His f-air is faster than her n-air so use it if you see it. Also maybe up-air, up-tile, forward smash(spaced), or up-smash(Oos or spaced) as well. Your aerials are faster than her and less punishable, too. Off-stage game is a weapon for our yellow mouse to success since she has no hitbox on her recovery. B-air for stage spiking, f-airs for gimps and even if she come back safely, Luma will be gone. Down-air and n-air for gimps if you read and get her in high percents. Thunder is risky off-stage thanks to her GP, so don't try it unless you want her to kill you. If you ledge trump her or she grabs the ledge twice, then you can either down-smash, down tile, up-tile, jolt, or forward smash.

: Even though Pikachu got the advantage on her, she can still cause problems for him. Her range can be a serious issue for him with her f-tile, jabs, n-air, b-air, and down-tile since he has low range and can be out-ranged and out-spaced. Luma's jabs can hit through the jolts so keep that mind. Do not challenge her up-tile and up-snash while on the way to the ground because they're anti-air moves and they beat every aerials that Pikachu has, especially with Luma. Unless Pikachu has enough length to reach the ground to QA and maybe fast fall, then she can jiggle him with up-airs and even kill him since he's light and slighty floaty, himself. His aerials outside of thunder are beaten out by her up-airs and if she reads the thunder, then there's a good chance that you'll get punished for it. Don't get over confident off-stage because she has some things on him even though Pikachu is difficult to gimp and he can edgeguard better. If you're recovering low and she catches you with b-air or down-air, then QA can be beaten out. Her down-air can beat out QA and will either spike you down or hit you with Luma's hitbox for a stage spike(if you can tech). Plus, b-air for a stage spike as well. If she spaces her b-air and timed it right after reading the QA, then you'll be hit out of it. Also, your skull bash can be spiked on by Rosalina's down-air or hit out of by Luma's hitbox so be careful not to get read on. Ledge trump and ledge guard is still there for her so even though QA can help avoid the ledge, you still have to keep in mind that if you grab the ledge twice, then you can get down-smash, forward smash(angled down), down-tile, or down-air(Rosalina's hitbox) by. Even though she's light and his attacks are less punishable, her kill potential is better than his, especially with rage since Pikachu is light, himself and has trouble killing outside of edgeguarding. But slighty though. Her ground speed is good.

Stages: Avoid Delfino Plaza and Halberb because those stages benefit Rosalina more than Pikachu and the stage have low ceiling. Even though you can QA cancel with platforms, mix up recovering, and get vertical kills, Her vertical kills are stronger, as so her jiggling game, escepically if you're on top of her and on platforms for Rosalina to pressure and give you trouble landing, even with Quick attack. Plus, she can use the platforms for her recovery. Battlefield, good for both and same stuff like the other stages above, but normal stage, larger blastzones for both characters to live longer and to make use of platforms. Dreamland, same as BF, but low ceiling for Rosalina's vertical kills, wind blowing, and more space. Town & City, low ceiling for vertical kills, more space to run around, and there's platforms to make use off of. Duck Hunt and Lylat cruise, pick those stages because they help you more than her. Lylat cruise, moving stage can screw with her recovery. Duck Hunt, wall jump for you to jump on walls for mix ups under the ledge, space, no platforms so she's at risk to get punished if she chooses to avoid the ledge, the dog can troll and so on. Use the tree for a early up throw kill if you grab her, but be mindful that she can do the same if she grabs you.

Great write up, but im just laughing my ass off because juggle was corrected to jiggle every time. So it was fun reading all about pikas jiggle game xD

 

[Underhill]

Great write up, but im just laughing my *** off because juggle was corrected to jiggle every time. So it was fun reading all about pikas jiggle game xD

Thanks. Juggles, jiggles, the computer confused me XD

 

[G. Stache]

Hello Pikachu mains! The Luigi MU thread is discussing the MU against Pika now that patch 1.1.1 is a thing. Click here to enter E. Gadd's Lab and discuss the MU. You're input is greatly appreciated!

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-match-up-discussion-thread.382918/page-12#post-20472962

 

[Chri$tian Is @wesome]

I'm pretty sure Pikachu wins because he can quick attack through Luma, effectively being able to rush down Rosalina.

 

[Simperheve]

I find fighting Rosalina to be a fight in two stages with Pikachu:

1: Destroy Luma - The problem with having Luma in play is it ruins Pikachu's pressure options. As Luma can act independently, it means any option where the landing lag would have been safe if we'd hit Rosalina (such as Nair, the landing lag from QA) becomes unsafe. I find the best approach is to play conservatively until you can either separate the two or destroy Luma.

2: Go to town! - Once separated from Luma, Rosalina becomes a pretty easy target. She's pretty big, meaning she's pretty easy to combo and he large ending lag on a lot of her moves makes approaching pretty easy. Just keep the pressure on and stay close to Rosalina, you're gonna have a good time!

 

[Shram]

I'm seriously considering a jump>side-b to avoid any followup uairs from Rosa. Seems like a good option sometimes but will require some testing to see if it's really practical.

 

[Emuchu]

I'm seriously considering a jump>side-b to avoid any followup uairs from Rosa. Seems like a good option sometimes but will require some testing to see if it's really practical.

It sounds like it could be useful, if you were really high up. Rosalina doesn't have a very good horizontal speed, so you just have to make sure you recover high enough to QA the rest of the way down.