Specific Characters Match-up: Pikachu vs Mario

[Felth]

I know that there's a Matchup Thread. But I don't like that the information is spread among different pages because the discussion can be changed to different characters and that could be a little messy. To avoid this, I suggest the following idea: one post for each character. Following some general points I'll organize all the post in a very simple way.

I propose to study in this post the Mario MU . If you want to discuss other Matchup and you liked my idea just write a post following this idea. Suggestions of any type are welcome (I'm not an expert of Smash so it's probably that you know more than me about this).

Mario:

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• Neutral Game:

• Stage selection and Ban:

• Specific Situations:
  • Ground - Ground:
  • Ground - Air:
  • Air - Air:
  • Off Stage:
  • Some situation to punish or to look (Situations that are advantageous to pikachu vs this character)
  • Situations to avoid?

Extra information:
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• I don't want to lose all the information that the community has discovered at this point. Most of this theory it's in the MU Thread.

• You can read the document made by the User Umbreoff which summarizes the previous post. Click here to see the document. I'm transcribing this document into a pdf version with access to new options. If you want to check the progress of this document I'll invite you to see the PDF Online Version.

• With respect to the Killing Section: add Good Set-ups to perform the killing (not just the final attack). Set-ups performed in specific Stages are also welcome.

• With respect to the Stage Selection Section: we should discuss what stages to avoid and what stages are good for Pikachu. The Smash Player Esam made a Depth Analysis on each Stage. Recall that some stages could be good for Pikachu but are even better for other character that's the reason for why we should discuss this kind of things here (one example is Halberd: IMO is good for Pikachu but not against Meta Knight).

• With respect to the Difficulty Section we should discuss how difficult is this MU for Pikachu. If it's possible it would be good to associate a measure to this difficulty. I think that this section should be completed once we developed a lot of theory in the corresponding MU, otherwise is just speculation.

• With respect to the Specific Situations Section we should discuss what to do in both scenarios.

 

[ÑukeSSB]

I struggle at this MU, Mario as so little lag on his move. His cape can really screw use over.

 

[Cocoa Brova]

This is probably my one of my worst match ups, which might just b due to my play more so than the characters. However, I think Mario vs Pika has a lot of similarities to Pika vs Luigi (Nair takes away the ability to reach when extending combos, earlier kill potential, etc.) It seems to be a matter of playing more reserved, getting them offstage and edge guarding well.

 

[Emuchu]

A big sticking point with Mario is that he plays a great reaction game. Mario has great tools to punish many of our common approaches: Mario Usmash has head invulnerability and makes for an effective preemptive anti-air against Pika SH Fair, SH Dair, and reckless Quick Attacks, and his ridiculously fast Dsmash can punish crossup Fair FF and Dash Attack on shield, so Pika has to play a much more patient game against the Plumber Bros., enforcing grounded spacing with Dtilt and Pivot Fsmash / Ftilt and discouraging shields with dash-grab and SH FF Grab shenanigans (a.k.a. the Tomahawk).

One way to approach this match is to realize that the Mario player likely already knows how his toolkit can punish most of the common Pika tactics: he will most likely cape your TJolts, shield during your aerial approaches and punish with Dsmash, and fish for Usmash when you start Quick Attacking around. More experienced players will also challenge you in the air with Nair, Bair, and Dair, and use F.L.U.D.D. to gimp your recovery or to fish for an Usmash after the floating effect. You have to combat this by mixing up typical aggressive Pika play with a patient neutral, Quick Attacking out of range to punish errant Fsmashes and starting your Fairs early to beat out Mario's Nair. Establish that you won't always be the character moving in! We can punish mistakes just as easily as Mario can, but many Pika players aren't used to the bait-and-punish mentality, least of all me, hah!

 

[Cylent]

My friend that I play a lot (him being Mario, me being Pikachu) he hates this MU and will never do it. He always plays his Robin.
Is this just a personal thing or does Mario suffer in this MU.
Other Marios I have played before have put up a good fight, some even beating me.

 

[Underhill]

I just fought a really good Mario player and this MU is tough for Pikachu, but still even.

: Use d-tile or forward tile to get him out of your face if he's trying to go for a grab. Pikachu can edgeguard him well if he knocks him far off stage to avoid being hit by the jump punch. Thunder jolts help, also. F-air beats Mario's n-air. Your recovery is better so you'll have a better time getting gimped less than Mario. While Mario is not easy to punish, so Pikachu is not easy to do so, either. Ledgeguards can help you against Mario so go for them since Mario can't mix up his recovery like Pikachu. Your projectile is better than Mario's since his fireballs have alittle more end lag than from Brawl. Play the patient and bait game on Mario because being aggressive is going to help him, more.

: Do not challenge his up-smash with your air attacks because he beats them. Also, don't trade with d-air either. Your recovery may be better, but with his Fludd and cape, he will not let you get back on stage for free. Cape is death for you if he reads your QA with a cape. Also his up smash beats QA as well. His fludd is for pressure, spacing, and getting you in a bad position for him to get a good punish. He can kill better and rage helps him more than Pikachu since Mario can live longer and Pikachu's light. Mario's not that easy to punish since he has low lag attacks. Avoid using thunder on Mario off stage because if he's not on hitstun, then he can cape and Pikachu is going to pay for it. Don't spam or camp with jolts because of the cape and he can even get a free punish if you do it right in his face. His b-air can beat Pikachu's air attacks and out-range. Also, he's faster in the air than Pikachu.

Customs I can't say because I need to face either a good Mario or Pikachu for that.

 

[Uncle Honey]

There's really not a whole lot to this matchup aside from general strategy and fundamentals. Pikachu can play his general meta without too much issue as long as he is methodical about it (i.e. avoid spam, patterns, and throwing attacks...which is still basic strategy).
1) Never challenge usmash with an aerial move.
2) Mario will punish landings with fsmash. If you want to challenge it, aim deep because fmash naturally brings Mario's hurtbox back. If you don't, you will miss and he will kill you.
3) Dash attack has a deceptive hitbox that stays out long, especially if well spaced. It is unsafe on shield, but do not drop shield too early or it will hit you on the tip. If you try to space it, do not dash in too early or, again, it will hit you on the tip.
4) Mario like to press buttons if he's getting combo'd. Bait out his nair (e.g. during a utilt string).

That's it; the major things, anyway. The rest is general stuff.

5) Feel free to use projectiles. Don't be predictable or he'll use cape. Spam if your strategy trying to bait out a cape for a punish.
6) Don't let him fludd your QA. Mix up your recovery high/low; use skull bash sparingly.
7) You can't beat his bair with your aerials; only trade. Either trade if that is your intent or wait it out and punish. Choose your punish depending on how he is spacing. (dash grab, dash attack, fair, and dash>usmash, etc)
...

 

[Megamang]

Can anyone test which moves trade with his u-special? I think I can dair him out of it, which is probably the best option.

 

[Underhill]

Can anyone test which moves trade with his u-special? I think I can dair him out of it, which is probably the best option.

Unless he times his up-smash which is for the head, then its a good chance your d-air might trade with his up-smash.

 

[Megamang]

I mean what moves trade with his SJP, so I can tack on damage offstage.


I like aerial Tjolt, it makes them fall back and is hilarious when it gimps.

 

[Underhill]

I mean what moves trade with his SJP, so I can tack on damage offstage.


I like aerial Tjolt, it makes them fall back and is hilarious when it gimps.

I think if you fast fall your b-air on Mario's SJP, then it may trade and give Mario a small spike.

 

[Megamang]

Interesting, I'll need to lab that out later. Im worried that the efficacy of this is related more to the Mario's button pushing than pikas, unfortunately.

I'd like to add to this discussion, dair is GREAT in the MU, so long as it doesnt get you smashed. Mario hits really quickly and in rapid succession, trading with a high damage move is almost always helpful for pika.

 

[Underhill]

Interesting, I'll need to lab that out later. Im worried that the efficacy of this is related more to the Mario's button pushing than pikas, unfortunately.

I'd like to add to this discussion, dair is GREAT in the MU, so long as it doesnt get you smashed. Mario hits really quickly and in rapid succession, trading with a high damage move is almost always helpful for pika.

I don't know. I'll try it when I face a good Mario player, but I prefer to get away from him to avoid jiggle and taking damage from his up-smash.

 

[xDizxy]

Can you explain the vs matchup? I feel like ness wins this one. You can't approach ness with tjolt since he has magnet. His fair has a big hitbox. Magnet can also absorb thunder. Not only that, pikachu is also very light so ness can easily kill him with a backthrow. Any tips?

 

[Megamang]

I utilize a secondary for Ness.

But, if i get Ness'd game one, I still have success with Tjolts. You need to get -far- away, then FHTjolt so you can follow it. Go in with the Tjolt, and hit him at the same time. You have to use them to cover an approach almost exactly, otherwise yes they get absorbed.

I play so Tjolt based that I don't think I neglect them in any MU, this one just requires different use of them. To get this space, make sure you know how to b-reverse. B-reversing is how I can run away then Tjolt back in with momentum.

 

[Emuchu]

You can also toss a few TJolts early from mid range to check how fast their PSI Magnet reflexes are. Some Ness players aren't very good at using their reflectors, so you might as well check. Worst case scenario, they heal some damage at the beginning of the match. The Ness matchup is annoying in general, but all you really need to do is avoid his grabs, PK Fire, and Fair. Just focusing on avoiding those three moves does wonders in this match up, but it's challenging for many Pika players because it essentially means cutting SH Fair FF from your repertoire.

 

[Felth]

What would you do in this situation? Consider that Mario has not used any attack nor dodge. Also consider that Mario has good priority on his aerials and has a very fast grab. Therefore it's not safe to keep the shield for too long.
If possible tell me more than one option

 

[Felth]

What about this situation? I shielded his Up Smash and get pushed away. You can see in the picture that Mario is finishing his animation.
Can I punish his attack? What are my options in this situation?

 

[Emuchu]

For the "Shielding while Mario is falling" one, I would personally hold shield until Mario is almost on the ground, and then OoS Nair. Your biggest concerns at that range are either Mario's Nair / Bair right before landing, or a fast fall grab (tomahawk). Think is, I think Mario has to Nair a little higher than that to autocancel it, so you're looking at either an aerial with landing lag or an empty fast fall grab. If you rolled or spot dodged you'd likely get grabbed, so some good choices would be:

• OoS Nair right before Mario lands, and land on a platform
• Shield grab Mario if he lands in front of you with an attack
• Shield-drop Utilt if he lands behind you with an attack
• OoS jump and QA away
• (Bonus ballsy read Utilt him if he feels safe landing on you for free. A well-spaced Utilt beats Mario's Nair.

For the blocked Usmash, I think you can Ftilt him from that distance... the knockback from Mario's Usmash combined with its relatively brief recovery means you probably don't have time for a dash-grab or anything fancy. Also! Mario players don't respect Pika's grounded normals, so they're more likely to spotdodge to avoid your grab (and then Usmash / Dsmash) than just shield, so it's risky to attempt the grab anyway. So:

• Try to Ftilt him
• OoS QA through him
• OoS SH Dair AC
• OoS QA away and reset neutral
• (Bonus ballsy read Foxtrot right up to Mario, call out the spot dodge, and do whatever.

Not the most ideal options.

 

[A10theHero]

For the "Shielding while Mario is falling" one, I would personally hold shield until Mario is almost on the ground, and then OoS Nair. Your biggest concerns at that range are either Mario's Nair / Bair right before landing, or a fast fall grab (tomahawk). Think is, I think Mario has to Nair a little higher than that to autocancel it, so you're looking at either an aerial with landing lag or an empty fast fall grab. If you rolled or spot dodged you'd likely get grabbed, so some good choices would be:

• OoS Nair right before Mario lands, and land on a platform
• Shield grab Mario if he lands in front of you with an attack
• Shield-drop Utilt if he lands behind you with an attack
• OoS jump and QA away
• (Bonus ballsy read Utilt him if he feels safe landing on you for free. A well-spaced Utilt beats Mario's Nair.

I pretty much agree with all of these, but for an even harder read, I would recommend using Down Smash. It's stronger than up tilt, but there's a lot of endlag on it so it's riskier as well. If it hits Mario's shield, you can expect to be hit by a Forward Smash. But if it catches him as he tries to land or use an aerial, he will take quite a bit of damage.

For the blocked Usmash, I think you can Ftilt him from that distance... the knockback from Mario's Usmash combined with its relatively brief recovery means you probably don't have time for a dash-grab or anything fancy. Also! Mario players don't respect Pika's grounded normals, so they're more likely to spotdodge to avoid your grab (and then Usmash / Dsmash) than just shield, so it's risky to attempt the grab anyway. So:

• Try to Ftilt him
• OoS QA through him
• OoS SH Dair AC
• OoS QA away and reset neutral
• (Bonus ballsy read Foxtrot right up to Mario, call out the spot dodge, and do whatever.

Not the most ideal options.

I can confirm that forward tilt would indeed hit from that distance and that tilts are pretty useful in this matchup.
Hitting with forward tilt would probably be the best option because getting Mario offstage is a good idea. While still respecting his aerials and Super Jump Punch, Pikachu has an advantage offstage. Even if it's not much, you should still be able to tack on some extra damage after putting Mario in that unfavorable position. It pretty much depends on whether he'll jump almost immediately to get on-stage or wait and go lower to snap to the ledge with Super Jump Punch. If you can read this, you'll be able to do quite a bit of damage even if he tries to retaliate with his aerials.

 

[DeaDea]

I find this matchup super hard. He seems to be just that bit better with aerials, jabs and tilts in terms of frame data and effectiveness, and his smashes seem to come out just that bit faster with way better kill potential (although our fsmash range is something he doesnt really match). Also have to be really careful with QA with his FLUDD and cape gimps. I also find punishing his up b really hard with its good hitbox, but Ive discovered dair usually beats it out unlike bair (im not sure about how nair does but I find intercepting his up b with nair pretty hard to time). I would say this matchup is one of the rare match ups that is actually in the opponents favour - does anyone else find that not to be true? Maybe I just suck against marios or my opponents are just better than me.

 

[w0ah]

With Marios upsmash and fast ariels he forces you to play neutral. This matchup becomes mostly fundamentals and footsies which isn't what pikachu excels at. Dtilt will be you best option, as well as baiting with retreating arials.

With this being said you still want to be under him at all times except off stage of course. When he is recovering low and is about to use his upB keep in mind that it comes out on frame 3 lasts till frame 1. It is invincible from frame 3-6 so you can still Bair spike him but only after he loses invincibility.