Spear Pillar: Counterpick or Not?

[Noa.]

The stage deserves a shot, I must agree. Though it will probably be banned.

 

[AlbinoMonk]

I don't understand all the hate towards Palkia.

If anything, Cresselia should be banned, as she can quite often kill a character with low warning (the rapid fire crescents).

Palkia is a perfectly legitimate stage hazard, because if you just practice with it for about two minutes you'll get the hang of it. When the stage flips the x-axis, I stop thinking in terms of left and right, and switch to "OK, I'm going to go the OTHER way now" instead of "I'm going to go left now" because that way I always go the direction I intend.

When the entire stage gets flipped upside-down I can't even comprehend that people have trouble with it. Can't you people read upside-down? Its only slightly more complex than that.

A point for Dialga was that it has the laser, which prevents camping in the bottom of the map.
Palkia also has the laser and it can (I believe) fire in all the same places.

Dialga has an attack where it jumps out into the stage and can potentially kill a player:
-Player 1, with low damage, sees Dialga preparing to attack. Player 1 also sees that Player 2 has 100+ damage.
-*grab*
-*explosion*
-Player 2 dies, Player 1 doesn't.

Although I can understand that this kill IS the result of player 1 making the right choice, its highly situational and (dare I say it) random that Dialga will attack at the right moment. I was under the impression that random variables are turned off for tournament play if they were deemed too dangerous.

The laser has plenty of warm-up, is easy to avoid and at the worst case scenario (you can't avoid it as you are in the cave of life) you can usually tech. That is why I believe it is a fair hazard.

Stage flipping is a fair hazard as it has no bearing on tournament play. If you can't deal with it, you aren't the best player there and really you SHOULDN'T win. It's not like the Micro-games in warioware that completely wreck any semblance of balance. Stage flipping is an intellectual hazard. Deal with it.


tl;dr, Palkia's fair, cresselia and dialga no.

 

[epic of DE]

Hm...Just by the way it functions Spear Pillar isn't a great counterpick but perhaps it could be made as an exception stage. Say that out of best of five, if both players have two wins and both agree then Spear Pillar would be chosen as the final stage.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

I don't understand all the hate towards Palkia.

If anything, Cresselia should be banned, as she can quite often kill a character with low warning (the rapid fire crescents).

Palkia is a perfectly legitimate stage hazard, because if you just practice with it for about two minutes you'll get the hang of it. When the stage flips the x-axis, I stop thinking in terms of left and right, and switch to "OK, I'm going to go the OTHER way now" instead of "I'm going to go left now" because that way I always go the direction I intend.

problem is that the directional change can happen in the middle of the recovery (it's happened to me with fox, wolf and, lucario), which means the stage killed you without the chance to avoid the hazard.

When the entire stage gets flipped upside-down I can't even comprehend that people have trouble with it. Can't you people read upside-down? Its only slightly more complex than that.

A point for Dialga was that it has the laser, which prevents camping in the bottom of the map.
Palkia also has the laser and it can (I believe) fire in all the same places.

Dialga has an attack where it jumps out into the stage and can potentially kill a player:
-Player 1, with low damage, sees Dialga preparing to attack. Player 1 also sees that Player 2 has 100+ damage.
-*grab*
-*explosion*
-Player 2 dies, Player 1 doesn't.

Although I can understand that this kill IS the result of player 1 making the right choice, its highly situational and (dare I say it) random that Dialga will attack at the right moment. I was under the impression that random variables are turned off for tournament play if they were deemed too dangerous.

The laser has plenty of warm-up, is easy to avoid and at the worst case scenario (you can't avoid it as you are in the cave of life) you can usually tech. That is why I believe it is a fair hazard.

agree that laser is fine, but the thing with dialga is that you can tell when he WILL and when he WON'T jump in front. When he spins his head (like he does before any attack) if nothing has happened midway through the spin, he's gonna jump. It has about 1-1.5 second delay before he jumps, then another .5-1 second before he attacks..... that's pretty **** fair warning. And just to back the point that tossing the opponent into the attack is fair, play on norfair (which is most likely going to be CP) and try to resist tossing/punching/kicking/etc into the lava

Stage flipping is a fair hazard as it has no bearing on tournament play. If you can't deal with it, you aren't the best player there and really you SHOULDN'T win. It's not like the Micro-games in warioware that completely wreck any semblance of balance. Stage flipping is an intellectual hazard. Deal with it.


tl;dr, Palkia's fair, cresselia and dialga no.

actually, the microgames in warioware could (idk, haven't played it much-or at least not to figure out the intricacies of the level) be cp if the rewards weren't random.

player 1: "sweet, im giant, im gonna use my extra power and knockback to pwn you!"
player 2: "fat chance, i got invincibility!"
player 1: "****!"

 

[Frey]

I just don't like this stage, you try playing against someone on a one on one, and then try to shield against that **** laser with a low shield at 75%+ You get *****, and this happened more than 10 times, lol.

 

[AlbinoMonk]

problem is that the directional change can happen in the middle of the recovery (it's happened to me with fox, wolf and, lucario), which means the stage killed you without the chance to avoid the hazard.

But it doesn't change your direction. If you keep recovering as if nothing has changed you'll be fine. It only flips the image on the screen, not your controls relative to it. Try closing your eyes and you'll make it back.

agree that laser is fine, but the thing with dialga is that you can tell when he WILL and when he WON'T jump in front. When he spins his head (like he does before any attack) if nothing has happened midway through the spin, he's gonna jump. It has about 1-1.5 second delay before he jumps, then another .5-1 second before he attacks..... that's pretty **** fair warning. And just to back the point that tossing the opponent into the attack is fair, play on norfair (which is most likely going to be CP) and try to resist tossing/punching/kicking/etc into the lava

Point taken. Dialga is fair then I suppose (I just hate the time slow one just because it slows down the match )


actually, the microgames in warioware could (idk, haven't played it much-or at least not to figure out the intricacies of the level) be cp if the rewards weren't random.

player 1: "sweet, im giant, im gonna use my extra power and knockback to pwn you!"
player 2: "fat chance, i got invincibility!"
player 1: "****!"

But, imagine if in a tournament, someone got invincible and someone else got 'heal half of your damage' at 2 damage. If you're playing for money, that doesn't work out very well.

My comments in bold

EDIT: Oh, also, just so we're clear, warioware's random bonuses (bonii?) aren't the only problem with its possible neutrality *gets hit by hotdog car*

 

[ChronoPenguin]

The loops isn't that much of an issue.

the hazards halt that process for a while, characters who get messed up by there being a loop.

Bowser
Donkey Kong
ganondorf
and ummm any other slow character I suppose?

Snake has lots of range moves to help him out and can plant his mines.
Link can attack you from either side of the stage really.
Dedede can get you with his waddledees and doo's.

Ganondorf is considered bad in brawl to begin with,(unfortunately) so spear pillars loop doesn't exactly make a difference to begin with he's slow enough you can jump circles around him in Final Destination.