thecatinthehat
Smash Master
I just pulled the same thing today, no jokeI did a shorthop Dair out of shield and killed a Falco. It was hawt.
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I just pulled the same thing today, no jokeI did a shorthop Dair out of shield and killed a Falco. It was hawt.
Tenki, your connection is Horiiible.I'd cite having played with samboner, but our connection wasn't exactly the best, and it's hard to tell how much of our fights was player skill or matchup-related.
Word? I have an OK connection with him.Tenki, your connection is Horiiible.
I wouldn't take anything you say based off of Wifi to heart, ever.
My home connection was faster over the summer, before we got some stupid phone thing that connects to the router.Tenki, your connection is Horiiible.
I wouldn't take anything you say based off of Wifi to heart, ever.
eehhhhh samboner. Im not saying he isnt good, but I've played a couple people both online and offline, and there is definitely a difference. That difference can be good or bad. I just think that the skill level if someone that plays mainly online is controversial. The spot dodge dsmash Samboner loves to do with fox works no where near as well offline.I'd cite having played with samboner, but our connection wasn't exactly the best, and it's hard to tell how much of our fights was player skill or matchup-related.
I have only played one or two good sonics. This is one of my least experienced matchups...so I wouldn't take what I say as law >_>. But what I have seen, 6:4 fox seems about right....Approaching from the ground seems a cool idea. Spinshotting a lot will probably make you eat a lot of nairs.
Anyway, should we throw rough estimations for numbers up. So far, we've had :
Myself : 50:50
M@V : 40:60/35:65
We need more discussion though. I just don't know how to analyse this match-up at all :\
Hey, maybe we could do a Wi-Fi match sometime. I know Wi-Fi is gay, but at least we can try to get a general idea of the matchup, and we're both from PA so the lag shouldn't be too bad. I've played some decent Foxes and I'm convinced it's at least an even match up. I'm not saying I'm amazing or anything, but I'm no push over.I have only played one or two good sonics. This is one of my least experienced matchups...so I wouldn't take what I say as law >_>. But what I have seen, 6:4 fox seems about right....
Hits on Frame 3 in front and in back.U-tilt has a .. weird hitbox apparently. It's disjointed at the front.. lol
This is untrue, SDI will not let you escape from an Usmash or a Dsmash. You can, however, SDI away from a jab, although you quite literally need perfect timing to pull it off. If it was that easy to get out of Fox's Dair combos, he'd be ranked much lower on the tier list.if D-air is used as anything other than a WOP (in other words, if it's approaching but not retreating), it's shieldgrabbable. If it makes contact with you, at a mid-high%, he can combo smashes into it. SDI away from him before the landing hit and you can avoid a followup attack
This is untrue, SDI will not let you escape from an Usmash or a Dsmash. You can, however, SDI away from a jab, although you quite literally need perfect timing to pull it off. If it was that easy to get out of Fox's Dair combos, he'd be ranked much lower on the tier list.
I think he's talking about SDIing during the drill to avoid the last few hits. You'd be out of stun before Fox could do his smashes, since you would've avoided the last few hits of the dair.This is untrue, SDI will not let you escape from an Usmash or a Dsmash. You can, however, SDI away from a jab, although you quite literally need perfect timing to pull it off. If it was that easy to get out of Fox's Dair combos, he'd be ranked much lower on the tier list.
I think so as well. I mean if you can SDI out of tornado and meta Fair...I think he's talking about SDIing during the drill to avoid the last few hits. You'd be out of stun before Fox could do his smashes, since you would've avoided the last few hits of the dair.
That' just speculation though, I haven't really tested it, but I think that's what Tenki was getting at.
that one.I think he's talking about SDIing during the drill to avoid the last few hits. You'd be out of stun before Fox could do his smashes, since you would've avoided the last few hits of the dair.
That' just speculation though, I haven't really tested it, but I think that's what Tenki was getting at.
This post is basically true. Laser is an annoying little gun that refills usmashes... it's useful.edit: Please refrain from mocking other players/boards.
I don't want this to devolve into the POS that was the Lucario-Sonic "discussion" - and if you do that after this post, I'm reporting you.
Laser is a bait / move refresher. Damaging is probably the least of its uses.
Fox's U-smash is a butt.
D-air can be really dangerous.
What's really cool is that if you're awesome, you can consistently B-air Fox out of his illusion. Had some really flashy matches the other day against some Fox player where he'd try to illusion back on stage and I'd hit him with B-air, then B-air (reverse launch) - then he tried one more time from the opposite side of the level and got F-smashed for the kill.
Check out this post, from the Fox boards.....
I'm somewhat annoyed by how this is taken in a respectful manner, but people just discard it when it comes to Sonic.
{1} Oh? lol I kinda put it out there somewhat because of the overwhelmingly good reaction you guys got out of it. If we ever try to bring up "If Sonic plays safely-", "Sonic can punish this move wi-" it gets discarded as though the person defending Sonic is delusional and believes he should be top tier.{1} Anyways, you quoted my post. lol. For the record, it, and I, are not taken in a respectful manner. I'm treated as a Fox fanboy who is delusional and overrates his character. : / I just said he does really well against the top tier, and people can't handle it.
And yes, a lot of it does apply to Sonic.
{2} The Fox vs Sonic on our matchup thread was just a preliminary number... Foxes haven't gotten to really discussing it all that much yet, so it's definitely not final. Just fyi.
{3} Both characters kinda suffer from "wtf is this character" syndrome in this match... so it makes it really hard to discuss correctly. Sonic has some amazing mixups due just to his speed and cross overs on shield, but if he gets lazy at all, Fox can punish quite well.
{4} Another thing to note, Fox's recovery is actually VERY adaptable... so it's very hard to punish when done correctly. He has a lot of options when recovering... MUCH moreso than Falco, due to his actually HAVING a firefox.
I agree with Roooy! with the tread.
Characters
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Donkey Kong:Page 6 or from post 76 onwards
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Fox: Page 43 or post #631 onwards.
1. see 3.{1} Oh? lol I kinda put it out there somewhat because of the overwhelmingly good reaction you guys got out of it. If we ever try to bring up "If Sonic plays safely-", "Sonic can punish this move wi-" it gets discarded as though the person defending Sonic is delusional and believes he should be top tier.
{2} That's somewhat nice to know lol. We're still kind of mistrusting after the "Isn't Fox strictly better than Sonic?" thread that popped up in both boards a while ago lol. It brought up alot of... interesting ... responses.
{3} I agree. But... baiting and punishing reactions, unless they're commonly used/major factors in the matchup (like Yoshi U-smash > tornado, RPG > air approaches) are generally discarded from discussions. What I've been trying to get Sonic boards to do lately was to approach matchup discussions on paper ("lolrangepriorityblah") and discard issues of mobility and punishment because they (regardless of how much it factors into our gameplay) are more "player based". So we end up having to 'lie' in a sense, and make it look worse than it might really be lol.
Since it seems that Fox and Sonic are both punishment characters for the most part, maybe a big factor in this matchup should be the 'safety' of common moves.
{4} I don't understand. Fox's up-B still floats in place for a little over a second, then you control it and fly in a single direction. If anything, it's shinestalling that can throw off a player and make it easier to recover, but I've double jumped and B-aired a Fox in post-shine lag once :l
Online is really bad, yeah... : /So yeah, after playing some matches with Fenrir online I have to conclude...
ONLINE IS SO GAY FOR BOTH CHARACTERS!! Neither of us were punishing anything as much as we were supposed to. Although I did find out a few really good things for Sonic.
Sonic's uptilt beats Fox's dair. You don't even really have to space it that much, just time it so that your uptilt is out before Fox's dair reaches you.
Fox is hard to edgeguard. In our matches Fenrir rarely even used Firefox at all. What he'd do is use his second jump and then fair, and he'd just rocekt up! I'm not sure if Sonic's bair will beat his fair though (online johns).
Juggling fox is easy! Really, uair, uptilt, and up smash all beat Fox's dair, and shinestalling doesn't really work against uair that well. It may have just been online messing Fenrir up though.
So yeah, that's just a few things that I learned online. Take it as you will.
@Fenrir, lol you can't edgehog Sonic! Sonic just footstool jumps off you.
lol you offering? sure. Friend code is in profile. I'll add you and be waiting in wifi. : )You should play at least one other Sonic Fenrir XD. You will find out playstyles vary drastically, more so than for most other chars =P.
I'd do it, but you'd have to wait until late Friday night or Saturday morning ;/lol you offering? sure. Friend code is in profile. I'll add you and be waiting in wifi. : )
Oh yeah.. it feels like Sonic vs Fox on wifi is the most disheartening thing ever... with both people missing so much. Tenki is def good. Dark Sonic, too....but I already knew that one. lol=*Wifi tears*(
WiFi is actually quite a pain for sonic(spacing on the ground with his running speed is harrdddd), but I can also imagine it being particularly difficult for fox in this matchup as well, what with Sonic's speed and Fox being a punisher char.
Anyways Fenrir, I don't know how your matches went, but I hope more than anything you at least got to see what I mean about the drastically varying playstyles of Sonic mains. I don't mean that in an arrogant or derisive way at all incase it comes off like that, just thought it should be something you should be aware of. =P
Thats how I feel about Sonic vs oli on WiFi ='''(, except that your fox could actually still do well besides the disheartening XD.Oh yeah.. it feels like Sonic vs Fox on wifi is the most disheartening thing ever...
lmao a few times we'd run at each other, run past each other then do dash attack.Wow...that was a bit embarrassing...couldn't time anything. I hate wifi... anyways, you had some REALLY good fsmash baits, Tenki. I liked them quite a bit.
XD sort of. I personally still don't know the exact timing for Firefox's release so I missed quite a bit of stage spikes (due to misprediction rather than lag). IMO the best things you did in those games recovery-wise were shortened Illusions done so you'd float to the edge instead, or using Illusion when you were high above the stage, which works considering I'm usually at stage level preparing a smash for you lol. I was able to hit you out of Illusion a few times through the lag though, and it was basically a matter of predicting the timing so my attack would be done when you were level with the stage, which is pretty much where the majority of Foxes use Illusion to recover.I played horribly vs Tenki...so I'm sorry for that one. lol. But I guess you kind got to see Fox's recovery game more. : )
roflmao.Anyways, did Tenki hit you with an reverse stutterstepped/retreating fsmashes? Those are a pain >_> =P