Social Sonic Says: Ultimate

[Sonic Orochi]

Just wait until someone uploads the raw data.. until then, enjoy your placebo.

 

[AreJay25]

Is everyone testing back throw in training mode? Keep in mind that rage doesn't apply there.

 

[cerealkiller]

This wouldn't be as nearly as fun if Nintendo just realeased patch notes, right?

 

[Espy Rose]

Sonic's bthrow is nerfed, but honestly, with rage, we'll still be KOing around 130-140%.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Hard to tell but did sonics dash speed get a buff. Cuz he doesnt slow down when he turns and tech chasing off dtilt is super easy now. Also curious if they buffed our jump height a tad. But uthrow got nerfed. I cant seem to followup uthrow into spring uair past 100.

 

[kataridragon]

Hard to tell but did sonics dash speed get a buff. Cuz he doesnt slow down when he turns and tech chasing off dtilt is super easy now. Also curious if they buffed our jump height a tad. But uthrow got nerfed. I cant seem to followup uthrow into spring uair past 100.

I could never follow up from up throw spring anyways.... Not as a true combo.

Edit: no spin shot from side b. down b in air works.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Is everyone testing back throw in training mode? Keep in mind that rage doesn't apply there.

Rage doesn't work in training mode? Is that a fact?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Yes.

And what's with people saying Spinshot from side B is gone? It's still there.

 

[Seagull Joe]

That changes A LOT of the testing I did. I killed with bthrow in training mode at 140% without rage then. We still got our kill throw then lmfao.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

So Sonic only has to rack up more damage to kill with back throw?

Piece of cake

 

[Camalange]

placebo panic

I'm getting really annoyed with everyone trying to kill Spinshot. I hate so bad that I can't test it for myself since I'm the only one I trust for Spinshot knowledge, lol.

Bthrow is definitely nerfed. Regardless of if it can kill or not, it's not the godsend it once was.

Plus, I'm not too thrilled by the sound of these spin nerfs.

 

[kj22]

Can anyone confirm if you can still spinshot out of sideb?

 

[Seagull Joe]

Can anyone confirm if you can still spinshot out of sideb?

Who cares. I never did that before. I always use down b.

 

[Camalange]

Who cares. I never did that before. I always use down b.

I care.

Because you can't do a grounded Spinshot with Down-B…

 

[kj22]

Also waaay less commital using it with side b since you can hold and shield cancel it if you change your mind

 

[Espy Rose]

God damnit you guys suck.
Yes you can spinshot from sideB. Same as always.

Bthrow isn't nerfed that bad Cam. You're still KOing at stupid percentages.
The only spin that was nerfed was sideB at full charge. By 3 percent. SideB > nair for 28% still works.

Then utilt2 got a knockback nerf.

That's it. Nothing else. It's been tested, checked, and double checked with my collected data pre-patch.

Everything else is the same.

PS: This is as far as knockback, knockback speed, and damage output is concerned. The only things I failed to check were Sonic's hitstun per move, weight, air speed, and movement speed, and I highly doubt that any of those changed.

 

[Seagull Joe]

God damnit you guys suck.
Yes you can spinshot from sideB. Same as always.

Bthrow isn't nerfed that bad Cam. You're still KOing at stupid percentages.
The only spin that was nerfed was sideB at full charge. By 3 percent. SideB > nair for 28% still works.

Then utilt2 got a knockback nerf.

That's it. Nothing else. It's been tested, checked, and double checked with my collected data pre-patch.

Everything else is the same.

PS: This is as far as knockback, knockback speed, and damage output is concerned. The only things I failed to check were Sonic's hitstun per move, weight, air speed, and movement speed, and I highly doubt that any of those changed.

Espy-sensei is always the only person I'll believe in a fact check about (Not about matchup discussions always tho).
Edit: Now that and lost their reliable ways of killing , we probably win those matchups.

Edit 2: I JUST WASTED MY 10000 POST ON THIS POST. FEEL PROUD OF THIS ESPY.

 

[CryoGX]

I played a match and I almost didn't notice anything was different with B-Throw until it was confirmed.

A lot of these things seem to be sheer paranoia. I don't really feel anything too different about the guy.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Then utilt2 got a knockback nerf.

For some reason I thought you said USmash in the other thread.

Well, lol utilt.

 

[Camalange]

Yes you can spinshot from sideB. Same as always.

C-Stick and all? I'm just real annoyed that I can't try it myself.

Bthrow isn't nerfed that bad Cam. You're still KOing at stupid percentages.
The only spin that was nerfed was sideB at full charge. By 3 percent. SideB > nair for 28% still works.

I'm not saying B-throw is useless or anything, but it was the most notable knockback difference.

Then utilt2 got a knockback nerf.

That's so... Pointless?

Can it combo into itself now or something because then that'd be a buff, lmao.

That's it. Nothing else. It's been tested, checked, and double checked with my collected data pre-patch.

Everything else is the same.

According to Orochi, there are some minor differences with the spins outside of full charge damage.

• SDJ: 6% → 3%
• ASDR: 11% → 7%
• SCR (occasional charged hit): 3% → 2%

Minor, but relevant. Weirdest ones are…

• ASDR and ASC are now single hit moves;
• BSD no longer has invincibility frames;

If this is all true, kinda lame we're losing more damage output with no multiple hit ASC, since ASC is already bad.
BSD now seems lame. Customs are lame though, Mewtwo doesn't even have any lmao.

PS: This is as far as knockback, knockback speed, and damage output is concerned. The only things I failed to check were Sonic's hitstun per move, weight, air speed, and movement speed, and I highly doubt that any of those changed.

I'm calling placebo on all this for now until I see hard data.

Edit: Now that and lost their reliable ways of killing , we probably win those matchups.

Hoo-Hah isn't as nerfed as everyone likes to say it is… Uthrow > Uair is more of a thing now too.

Sheik really only lost Bair knockback. Like, immensely. But from what I know, Up-B and Bouncing Fish actually got buffed for knockback power, which were bigger KO moves than Bair ever was anyway, so I wouldn't be so sure about that yet. Still helpful though, unless Bair not having much knockback makes her even more of a hell early stock like the rest of her moveset...

 

[Espy Rose]

Espy-sensei is always the only person I'll believe in a fact check about (Not about matchup discussions always tho).
Edit: Now that and lost their reliable ways of killing , we probably win those matchups.

Edit 2: I JUST WASTED MY 10000 POST ON THIS POST. FEEL PROUD OF THIS ESPY.

Heh.
Yeah, Diddy will be WAY more manageable (uthrow uair still dumb), and Sheik lost bair as a KO option, so that's good.

A lot of these things seem to be sheer paranoia. I don't really feel anything too different about the guy.

That's because there's not much different.

For some reason I thought you said USmash in the other thread.

Well, lol utilt.

It honestly might work in our favor. Utilt will start keeping you closer at lower percents. Easier to string moves/followups from it.

@Cam: Those percentages came back the same for me. *shrug*

No one was hitting with ASC anyways, so losing multihit on it isn't a loss.
Bouncing fish and vanish only kill 2 and 6% earlier.

 

[Camalange]

@Cam: Those percentages came back the same for me. *shrug*

Interesting.

No one was hitting with ASC anyways, so losing multihit on it isn't a loss.

It was fun against characters like R.O.B. and Bowser through...

Bouncing fish and vanish only kill 2 and 6% earlier.

It sounds insignificant, but you never know with how quickly Sheik can wrack up damage that those percents will just fly by!

 

[ROOOOY!]

Utilt nerfed? **** this, I'm maining Doc.

 

[kataridragon]

you can spinshot form side b but not with the c stick

 

[ROOOOY!]

My patch is downloading, forgot today was a thing, stupid work. I'm guessing BSBS is still a thing?

 

[cerealkiller]

Utilt nerfed? **** this, I'm maining Doc.

I lost it :D

 

[kataridragon]

So whats the deal with this A+B smash stuff? Whats the point? Does this allow some secret tech or something?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Yes, it allows you to screw up your SD charging. :D

 

[Espy Rose]

So whats the deal with this A+B smash stuff? Whats the point? Does this allow some secret tech or something?

I've found it easier to fsmash out of a pivot than with using c-stick.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I haven't had time to see how Sonic was worked on due to the update. I have too much essays to be writing right now, it's a miracle I even fit in time to get the Mewtwo DLC.

 

[Syndralix]

Alright, so for those who aren't up to speed yet:

You can still do a grounded spinshot if you change your C-stick to "Attack" instead of "Smash". I figured it was worth bringing up here since I've only seen it mentioned in the discoveries thread. Spread the word, folks.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I killed a in rage at 100% at the ledge with Bthrow. I killed a without rage at 120% with Bthrow. We still definitely have our kill throw albeit it's 5-10% weaker. Who cares lmfao.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

So, how well do you guys think Mewtwo counters Sonic?

Down B and side B seem to work wonders against our Spins.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

MU isn't as bad as i predicted due in large part to how floaty and light mewtwo is.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

So, how well do you guys think Mewtwo counters Sonic?

Down B and side B seem to work wonders against our Spins.

I was playing Classic mode at intensity 4 as Mewtwo, and uh, Sonic would have the advantage over Mewtwo. The Sonic I faced in the Classic mode nearly killed me.

 

[Camalange]

So, how well do you guys think Mewtwo counters Sonic?

Down B and side B seem to work wonders against our Spins.

lmao I'm so mad that those work.

They're such **** moves but of course it affects Sonic.

I was playing Classic mode at intensity 4 as Mewtwo, and uh, Sonic would have the advantage over Mewtwo. The Sonic I faced in the Classic mode nearly killed me.

Because that's a reasonable gauge to determine it...

But in all fairness, I can see Sonic bopping Mewtwo.

 

[KeetZ]

This could be largely due to me executing the attack incorrectly (how that would be I have no idea) but it seems that usmash has been altered in some fashion. I have never had problems with it previously. What is happening is the character will escape just before the eighth hitbox, and this is occuring more often than not. Could someone elaborate and conclude I am just somehow perfoming incorrectly?

 

[Camalange]

Well, you could escape it before too.

 

[Gregory2590]

I can see Sonic hard counterinig having the advantage over Mewtwo. Not very hard to approach(outside of the side b and down b nonsense), can be destroyed pretty damn early due to his glass cannon design(I uaired one at like 70-90% on an omega stage and he was pretty much done...or is that the standard death percentages for uair?) and some slow attacks here and there.

 

[Seagull Joe]

is insanely light LOL. He dies so early off the top. I did experimenting and we can kill him from the sides without rage around 110% with bthrow.

Also, did you guys finally stop sniffing paint and realize is even better vs characters like , , , , and ?

already beats 55-45 and probably still does. The matchup is the same. The matchup is the same.

I think the only characters we have disadvantages versus now are (45-55), (40-60), and possibly (45-55). I ****ing hate vs .

The tiers among the top 10 aren't going to change because no character was nerfed extremely hard. I'd say some will just swap positions. I think is still top 10 easily.