Sonic General Discussion/Social thread

[JacopeX]

You guys should put these Advanced techs. in one thread. This is really some good stuff and would like to try this all out so that we can all distinguish and indicate the practical and impractical things about sonic.

Also, how the hell do you moonwalk so easily with Sonic? Do you change your button settings to do it?

I use fair (when below) and bair (behind) alot for ledge guarding and it works against half of the cast I have played against so far (friends). How do you do it with Dair? Also, his jab cancels into jump/dash/tilt/grab/spin is very good once you get at close range so his mixup game is different than 2.5 and before. I just want to make more use of his down b than just spin one way>spin the other way on block> jump> immediately nair/dair/fair. I use his side b for rush down and mix up but I still have troubles and still lose. I will record matches though.

Good stuff guys.

 

[GHNeko]

Moon walking as nothing to do with buttons. It really is nothing more than just a Half Circle Motion on your joystick lol.

 

[Solharath]

Moonwalk Bair everyday. Helped me wreck Oracle's Magnet/Nair spacing(in friendlies).

 

[Nausicaa]

(raises hand)

sonic is fun

(raises hand)

Down-B is fun as a SH approach.
TAKE THAT PEOPLE DOING THINGS LIKE SHIELDING MY AERIALS!!!
Impossibu!

 

[Alex Night]

So, it is Day 2 of the WHOBO 5 tournament and I only made it into Losers Finals of Project M Doubles. I didn't make it past the first round of Project M singles unfortunately. Pit and Ness just have a way with stopping Sonic's momentum. I was so close to winning a game, but then I had trouble finishing stocks especially with Ness throwing his PK Fire everywhere.

I still don't wanna stop with Sonic, but he just lets me down in the end even when I balance out between going in on the attack and baiting out attacks from the opponent and helping Sonic return on the attack quickly with an aerial turnaround Spin Charge. Whatever changes that happens with Sonic in 2.7 or 3.0 or whichever version comes out next, I just hope that the changes can allow him a little more free reign on terms of rushdown. Running around and dodging your opponents with your speed is fun and all (Believe me, I was chuckling a bit at Ness just throwing out PK Fires all over the place in frustration. xD), but I would like to have more oppurtunities to go in and style more. After all, Sonic is all about style.

EDIT: Oh and as for who I used in the Doubles to get far was

 

[GHNeko]

Alex, tell sethlon he's a lame-o and neko could body him in Roy Ditto. Kappa.

 

[Solharath]

I still don't wanna stop with Sonic, but he just lets me down in the end even when I balance out between going in on the attack and baiting out attacks from the opponent and helping Sonic return on the attack quickly with an aerial turnaround Spin Charge. Whatever changes that happens with Sonic in 2.7 or 3.0 or whichever version comes out next, I just hope that the changes can allow him a little more free reign on terms of rushdown. Running around and dodging your opponents with your speed is fun and all (Believe me, I was chuckling a bit at Ness just throwing out PK Fires all over the place in frustration. xD), but I would like to have more oppurtunities to go in and style more. After all, Sonic is all about style.

EDIT: Oh and as for who I used in the Doubles to get far was

So I watched you and M2K make 2nd in PMDubs, that was pretty nice. I think you should have gone Sonic, though, and disrupted Oracle's combo game. I know for a fact Oracle struggles in the Sonic matchup, and that Sonic is a beast in teams. I kept The Good Doctor and cheeto on their toes in a 2v1 situation at Big House 3 with Sonic alone - could have taken the match if it weren't for a stray needle(ggs to those guys though). Your Link is great and solid, but you needed a solid mixup to get those guys off their game – which is what Oracle kept doing to you guys every game. Changed his character, kept up that unknowable matchup.

In so far I've found Sonic's flatout bait game to be useless against high level players. He requires going in on the attack, conditioning your opponent that you're still a rushdown beast, and then instead of dealing a blow, you have to back off and predict their response and go for that hard read. Sonic right now is tech chasing and hard reads. He doesn't have the power for opponents to go for anything too risky if they know what they're doing: Hitboxes beat Sonic. Doesn't matter if they're strong, time and time again Sonic will prove he can't handle hit boxes and you have to work on your WD OoS options and general moonwalk shenanigans.

Anyone who says sonic's Moonwalk is just for gimmicks isn't doing it right. It leads to a sliding Ftilt which is great for mid-percent pokes, a sliding standing grab, a dead-stop pivot grab, and a great tool for shorthop-bair, or nair, or crossup dair.

Moonwalk shorthop crossup dair is good fun.

 

[Alex Night]

Alex, tell sethlon he's a lame-o and neko could body him in Roy Ditto. Kappa.

Speaking of Roy, I only just picked him up seriously today and I actually did pretty well playing against Falco and Cpt. Falcon. I kinda feel like Roy has more potential than what people give him for. I just play patiently with him and it worked mostly fine. I can't wait to see how he is in the next update as well as what a certain PMBR member said as to how they are giving Sonic some attention as well.

So I watched you and M2K make 2nd in PMDubs, that was pretty nice. I think you should have gone Sonic, though, and disrupted Oracle's combo game. I know for a fact Oracle struggles in the Sonic matchup, and that Sonic is a beast in teams. I kept The Good Doctor and cheeto on their toes in a 2v1 situation at Big House 3 with Sonic alone - could have taken the match if it weren't for a stray needle(ggs to those guys though). Your Link is great and solid, but you needed a solid mixup to get those guys off their game – which is what Oracle kept doing to you guys every game. Changed his character, kept up that unknowable matchup.

In so far I've found Sonic's flatout bait game to be useless against high level players. He requires going in on the attack, conditioning your opponent that you're still a rushdown beast, and then instead of dealing a blow, you have to back off and predict their response and go for that hard read. Sonic right now is tech chasing and hard reads. He doesn't have the power for opponents to go for anything too risky if they know what they're doing: Hitboxes beat Sonic. Doesn't matter if they're strong, time and time again Sonic will prove he can't handle hit boxes and you have to work on your WD OoS options and general moonwalk shenanigans.

Anyone who says sonic's Moonwalk is just for gimmicks isn't doing it right. It leads to a sliding Ftilt which is great for mid-percent pokes, a sliding standing grab, a dead-stop pivot grab, and a great tool for shorthop-bair, or nair, or crossup dair.

Moonwalk shorthop crossup dair is good fun.

I probably should have went Sonic for teams, but M2K didn't feel comfortable with me being Sonic... Probably because of how he sees Sonic as... Low tier. Oh well, nothing I can do about it now. At least I got some money for it... Thirty bucks worth. Anyways, I still got a small kick at how the Ness player was forced to lame it out with a bunch of PK Fires because Sonic's movement would be too much for him otherwise.

 

[DMG]

Oracle might have had trouble... when Sonic was good lol. That was Sethlon + great character, not an overall problem with Sonic that he had btw. You probably made the right choice not going Sonic in teams. GJ getting second with M2K!

 

[Solharath]

Oracle might have had trouble... when Sonic was good lol. That was Sethlon + great character, not an overall problem with Sonic that he had btw. You probably made the right choice not going Sonic in teams. GJ getting second with M2K!

I was speaking out of experience of playing Oracle last week. When it's game three and you lose in GF, tentatively speaking you made the wrong decision anyway. Sticking to a strategy that didn't work is the definition of insanity.

Now, I'm fully aware that they were closer than ever in Game 3 as opposed to 1 and 2, but no offense to Alex here but M2K was the main force behind that, he just couldn't overcome Oracle's knowledge of the matchup. If he had, sure, stay Link, but it's a good idea to go with something different if nothing else seems to be working. Now, Alex himself has said he felt he should have gone Sonic, and even if M2K is uncomfortable with Sonic being lowtier, R.O.B. and Mr. Game and Watch are both considered very low tier, and got his face kicked in for it. Teams change dynamics.

 

[DireDrop]

I got to play Kirk from Big House 3 a little today at a small PM tourney. It was super fun, but super brutal. I'm not exactly sure what Sonic can do against a well-played bowser. I couldn't push around him at all because he was always either in armor frames or crouch canceling.

 

[Alex Night]

I got to play Kirk from Big House 3 a little today at a small PM tourney. It was super fun, but super brutal. I'm not exactly sure what Sonic can do against a well-played bowser. I couldn't push around him at all because he was always either in armor frames or crouch canceling.

Honestly, the only thing that Sonic could do is bait out attacks from Bowser which isn't easy given how fast he can travel with his Up B and that nothing in Sonic's arsenal can stop it or even clank with it. Basically, Sonic can't handle Bowser very well because nobody is supposed to approach Bowser; you're supposed to make him approach you and Sonic doesn't have the tools to combat against Bowser outside of just tech chasing from grabs. I mean, Sonic's DD + WD movement is great but some of Bowser's moves just smacks him down. Any great Bowser player like Kirk will Up B you before Sonic can connect with a grab though because the hitbox for Up B comes out so damn fast. I learned that the hard way when I was playing friendlies with M2K and he was abusing the versatility of his Up B and Fair.

So, if you are facing against a Bowser player who almost never misses their L-Canceling and knows the Sonic MU then you won't have much of a chance with him. It's a fool's chance, but... Add all that and you get Sonic offstage with Bowser guarding it... You might as well just lose the stock there because you won't get back on the stage.

 

[Solharath]

My Bowser strategy is thus:

 

[Archangel]

Sonic 2.6 is not as bad as I originally thought he was....but he's still bad compared to his previous incarnations and I think somewhere in the upper, lower end up the cast atm.

 

[Ariyo]

So I get wrecked by two falcos at yesterday's tourney. Taking my anger out by looking at the fox/falco discussion

EDIT: Then i realized the board is no more

 

[Nguz95]

So I get wrecked by two falcos at yesterday's tourney. Taking my anger out by looking at the fox/falco discussion

EDIT: Then i realized the board is no more

Them happy feet are hard to deal with when none of your moves out-prioritize them. Don't worry, 3.0 is just around the corner, and Cmart has promised to rain rewards on those who have stuck with the Blue Blur.

I'm so hyped to see what changes they have made to Sonic. I think he's in the top 3 for style, and I also believe he only needs a few buffs to claim a spot at the top of Project M's tier list.

 

[Babatunde]

Sonic for next Falcon in terms of combo hype when 3.0 comes out.
Not like he wasn't already.
On stage Fair spike followups=next knee

 

[Alex Night]

Them happy feet are hard to deal with when none of your moves out-prioritize them. Don't worry, 3.0 is just around the corner, and Cmart has promised to rain rewards on those who have stuck with the Blue Blur.

I'm so hyped to see what changes they have made to Sonic. I think he's in the top 3 for style, and I also believe he only needs a few buffs to claim a spot at the top of Project M's tier list.

I got no argument to that about Sonic. Although I don't think a tier list would be very practical in Project M given the ever changing environment with each update. However, I do see a Matchup list working much better for Project M since mostly everybody is balanced to a point where they have something of a chance with the others in the roster. (Bowser doesn't seem to have much of a problem with a lot of the roster though... Freaking Light armor negating stun on Forward Smashes... Makes no sense. End rant.)

Sonic for next Falcon in terms of combo hype when 3.0 comes out.
Not like he wasn't already.
On stage Fair spike followups=next knee

I see you there, Baba!

So I get wrecked by two falcos at yesterday's tourney. Taking my anger out by looking at the fox/falco discussion

EDIT: Then i realized the board is no more

Sonic's not really a hard counter to Fox/Falco anymore and it is really hard to deal with if they corner you and start forcing you to shield during their Shine+SHFFL Nair shenanigans. All you can pretty much do at that point is try to roll away from them which they will punish you for it. Once you get them up in the air and offstage, then it's fair game. Then again, the same can go for the rest of the roster so there isn't anything really special that only Sonic could do against Spacies aside from CGs and gimping with the spring or his Ftilt. Still, Sonic's neutral game is weaker than Fox or Falco's if they play near perfectly and CC alot of Sonic's moves. All you can do from the start is trying to bait out an opening and start a CG up to something around 35% or 40% and then try to force them offstage. When they are up in the air, then that's where you go in on Fox and Falco.

What does the say?

 

[Nguz95]

FIRE!!!!
Did I get it right?

 

[Neptune Shiranui]

Sonic haters are gonna be soo surprised in 3.0 oh yes....hehehe.

 

[Solharath]

Am I to assume you've played the WIP Sonic, Darky? Are you allowed to say anything?

 

[GHNeko]

He hasn't lol.

 

[Ariyo]

Homing attack should be turned into Sonic Wind. And it should have an instant full screen hitbox.
Sarcasm2strong

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

http://www.twitch.tv/syzygygaming/b/471160580

Please tell me this doesn't represent the changes to Sonic, he looks no better than 2.6 Sonic

 

[Neptune Shiranui]

Am I to assume you've played the WIP Sonic, Darky? Are you allowed to say anything?

no I didn't but cmart says theres "huge rewards" for people that stuck with him in 3.0.

http://www.twitch.tv/syzygygaming/b/471160580

Please tell me this doesn't represent the changes to Sonic, he looks no better than 2.6 Sonic

No thats just the 2.6b build with Roy and Mewtwo added in.

 

[cmart]

Haha it seems my single comment is going to mutate into something grotesque. I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea so I'll talk a little about what we're doing for Sonic in the next release.

First off - do not expect another huge revamp. On one hand we think we've nailed a pretty good set of tools for the hedgehog. On the other, we can't keep revamping the entire character every release. So we're building off of 2.6, and trying to address the shortcomings of that build.

What you can expect is actual rewards for going in - Sonic is going to have some real power behind his aerials - more than just a two-frame sweetspot on fair. I'm not talking Ganon levels of power, but certainly more in line with the rest of the cast. While we have other tweaks in mind to help other aspects of his game, kill power is going to be the most easily noticed change.

So when I said those who stick with Sonic can expect some cool things - I meant that you'll be rewarded for developing a playstyle and meta with Sonic. We're not going to pull the rug out from under you and make you relearn the character again.

 

[Alex Night]

Something tells me that Sonic has a taunt that produces Power Rings to make him invincible in 3.0. #kappanotserious

Still, it does sound interesting Cmart. Depending on how it goes, then I'll put Sonic at my forefront alongside Mario and Link for Apex 2014.

Also for those that are confused about my Power Rings comment, the Power Ring is the reason on how Sonic can be virtually unkillable from almost anything. Lava? Please... Giant Death Robot foot stomp? As if... Drowning? Well, it's not perfect.

 

[Neptune Shiranui]

Haha it seems my single comment is going to mutate into something grotesque. I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea so I'll talk a little about what we're doing for Sonic in the next release.

First off - do not expect another huge revamp. On one hand we think we've nailed a pretty good set of tools for the hedgehog. On the other, we can't keep revamping the entire character every release. So we're building off of 2.6, and trying to address the shortcomings of that build.

What you can expect is actual rewards for going in - Sonic is going to have some real power behind his aerials - more than just a two-frame sweetspot on fair. I'm not talking Ganon levels of power, but certainly more in line with the rest of the cast. While we have other tweaks in mind to help other aspects of his game, kill power is going to be the most easily noticed change.

So when I said those who stick with Sonic can expect some cool things - I meant that you'll be rewarded for developing a playstyle and meta with Sonic. We're not going to pull the rug out from under you and make you relearn the character again.

ah ok I understand now.

Btw....ever since you guys made the alt. costume engine I thought of a cool aesthetic change where Sonic has a different color blur line depending on the color he wears hehe.

 

[Solharath]

I'd be curious about a Shadow over Sonic costume myself. Personally I don't care for Shadow at all, but he's likely the safest character model to put over Sonic.

I'm personally over the moon about the idea of having kill power for a change. Now he just needs to flash on SideB and a reason to use all his throws and I'll be one happy Smasher.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

No thats just the 2.6b build with Roy and Mewtwo added in.

But there's changes to Ganondorf that are not in 2.6, so how is it just 2.6?

Haha it seems my single comment is going to mutate into something grotesque. I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea so I'll talk a little about what we're doing for Sonic in the next release.

First off - do not expect another huge revamp. On one hand we think we've nailed a pretty good set of tools for the hedgehog. On the other, we can't keep revamping the entire character every release. So we're building off of 2.6, and trying to address the shortcomings of that build.

What you can expect is actual rewards for going in - Sonic is going to have some real power behind his aerials - more than just a two-frame sweetspot on fair. I'm not talking Ganon levels of power, but certainly more in line with the rest of the cast. While we have other tweaks in mind to help other aspects of his game, kill power is going to be the most easily noticed change.

So when I said those who stick with Sonic can expect some cool things - I meant that you'll be rewarded for developing a playstyle and meta with Sonic. We're not going to pull the rug out from under you and make you relearn the character again.

This makes it sound like you're trying to restore his rushdown game, because if you leave his playstyle as it is now, he relies on bait and punish, hit and run, so it's confusing as to the intention of his playstyle

I'd be curious about a Shadow over Sonic costume myself. Personally I don't care for Shadow at all, but he's likely the safest character model to put over Sonic.

I'm personally over the moon about the idea of having kill power for a change. Now he just needs to flash on SideB and a reason to use all his throws and I'll be one happy Smasher.

Personally I think the costume engine should be limited to costumes for the characters or different incarnations of the characters(in the case of Link and Ganondorf)

Shadow is an entirely different character

 

[Ariyo]

I'd be curious about a Shadow over Sonic costume myself. Personally I don't care for Shadow at all, but he's likely the safest character model to put over Sonic.

I'm personally over the moon about the idea of having kill power for a change. Now he just needs to flash on SideB and a reason to use all his throws and I'll be one happy Smasher.

Shadow with Sonic's voice? no plz

 

[Alex Night]

Shadow with Sonic's voice? no plz

I concur. I'd rather see him as an actual character for Project M than as an alt Costume. I mean, sure if they could replace the soundbank for Sonic's voice with Shadow's Jason Griffith voice then okay. Just no to having Shadow sound exactly like Sonic.

 

[Bombitty]

Shadow with Sonic's voice? no plz

Seems somewhat fitting considering they were both voiced by Jason Griffith in Brawl. Either way its entirely possible to change his voice now. I vote go for it.

 

[GHNeko]

Tails over Sonic pls.

 

[Alex Night]

Tails over Sonic pls.

What's Tails without Sonic though?

 

[SpiderMad]

sure if they could replace the soundbank for Sonic's voice with Shadow's Jason Griffith voice then okay.

I think I like David Humphrey a little more at least on certain tones

 

[DireDrop]

The could give Sonic a Metal Sonic skin. They could just not have his vocal sound effects activate.

 

[PseudoTypical]

The could give Sonic a Metal Sonic skin. They could just not have his vocal sound effects activate.

He makes all sorts of cool beeping and mechanical noises, though. It'd be so much better if that were the case IMO.

 

[DireDrop]

He makes all sorts of cool beeping and mechanical noises, though. It'd be so much better if that were the case IMO.

I bet those would be easier to do then hire Shadow's voice actor.

 

[PseudoTypical]

I bet those would be easier to do then hire Shadow's voice actor.

I'm sure they could get clips or something, but they could definitely make Metal Sonic's sounds easily, yeah.