-Turn U-Throw/D-Throw into DI mixup throws.
-U-Air has a more vertical angle for outer hitboxes.
-Side-B hits twice on shield again.
-F-Smash can be angled.
And to compensate those changes, here's what are friend of mine suggested:
Probably give U-Air a smidgen less KBG, make the throw mixup like Sheik's (doesn't work as percents rise).
Foo
,
Shokio
Anyone can opinions about this, but please do explain why you agree or disagree.
EDIT 2: Take this with a grain of salt since we didn't give this a lot of thought.
Yeah, none of these are good. The reason her fsmash CAN'T be angled is because you'd be able to hit like 10ft under stage with it if it could be.
Upair is a really cool and well functioning move. She isn't supposed to have any vertical kill moves in her design (which is fine) and giving upair random vertical hitboxes would mess with her combo game. Also, it could turn out to be REALLY OP and lead into backwards nair at any DI, which leads into fair at any DI. Her upair is fine as is.
Side-b hitting twice on shield was kind of a pointless gimmick.
50-50 mixups of of throws are dumb. ZSS wouldn't be as bad as sheik because she wouldn't have stuff like tipper upsmash and sheik fair, but it'd be fine. Her throws are GREAT as is.
Uthrow's angle should be reduced to 80, eliminating dumb chaingrabs and kill confirms on fastfallers. Dthrow should be reverted to weight independent and have its endlag adjusted accordingly (52 frames duration would do it) so that it's useful across the board instead of being mostly useful and then randomly leading to kill confirms on lightweights. Sillyyyyyyyyyyy
That would nerf the HELL out of zss. Her throw game is really important to her character right now. I don't see the point of removing her throw options on fast fallers because 1. A ton of characters have the same or BETTER chaingrabs and kills on fast fallers and 2. she still loses to fast fallers anyway.
Uair kind of fits here given its near-overlap with nair's functionality.
I strongly disagree that upair and nair overlap. The differences in knockback, lag and angle are subtle but incredibly important.
personally, i think zss is one of like 6 characters that are done for the rest of the development process. i do not like the idea of changing things unnecessarily, and would reserve changes for things that are unanimously considered problematic. with your suggestions in particular, sheiks throw mixup is already a big point of contention across the playerbase, putting it on a faster run speed with a better dashdance window would be insane. the upair change seems unnecessary, and side b was changed to single hit for a reason. angling fsmash would probably hit THROUGH the stage. i would personally motion against any changes to zss at this point, but particularly ones that would buff a character that most people already consider top 10 in the game.
For the first time ever, I"d actually agree that there's a good chance zss is top 10 and does not need any buffs (she's definitely top 10 if there isn't a really fox heavy meta). However, I don't think she is totally finished. Her recover needs changes. Not buffs, but changes. Depending no the matchup, her recover is usualy either A. Completely free to edgeguard every time, don't bother trying to recover, or B. Nearly impossible to cover just hold ledge and 15% for free, but don't even gain stage control. I'm not realy sure what to change, but up-b tethers should work differently. I like the idea of being able to go super deep and still recover, but being easy to edgeguard, but there's almost not interaction or mixup potential, just a flow chart. (idk, maybe make it so if you are holding B, her ledgegrab hitbox doesn't come out and nerf something else?) Also, it'd be nice if her upsmash was useful.
@People wanting bair to be nerfed: I don't think bair needs to be nerfed. If zss was overpowered, I'd be fine with it, but not otherwise. Bair is insanely good, for sure, but it's fine to have insanely good moves on characters. If we nerf zss bair, let's also nerf, sheik fair, peach dsmash, knee, fox upsmash, lightning kick, mario dsmash, jiggs bair, mk nair, etc. etc. etc. Nerfing all insanely good moves just makes the game more boring imo. Maybe make it 9 frame landing lag, but 10 isn't needed at all imo.