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By negative on hit do you mean on shield? If so then I wouldn't be too worried as you can platform cancel the move or just cross them up. SDI isn't a big deal at this stage of the meta, for Yoshi's d-air that is. I've never once in my life seen the move SDI'd out of. I personally think the move is fine to use around 30-ish percent or later seeing that it does 40+ damage, combos into D-smash (+14 damage) or u-tilt+nair/u-air (+24).It's negative on hit until pretty high %s and it can also be SDI'd out of.
No, I mean that it's negative on hit either technically or practically. Against Peach/Shiek it doesn't become +0 on hit until 29% post-hit assuming that you land on the frame soonest after a hit. It doesn't combo into D-smash until 67% post-hit, and a frame-perfect turnaround D-smash isn't guaranteed until 79% post-hit. It's super easy to buffer shield but not easy at all to do 1 or 2 frame perfect inputs.By negative on hit do you mean on shield?
I've never seen a player properly SDI Yoshi's B-air or D-air in personal experience or in competitive play. Many people don't even DI b-air properly when the move is in theory easy to DI due to the move's duration. I've seen B-air ASDI'd downwards and D-air Shield DI'd (but that's because the move has ridiculous shield pushback, so it may not even be shield DI), but that's it. I think "in theory" D-air is very flawed, but in practice it is perfectly fine when used correctly. If it means anything, in a video, Hungrybox says that on a missed rest, aMSa would d-air him and rack on 40%.This wouldn't happen if Hbox was just ready to SDI it easily. I will admit that on anticipation, the move could be readily SDI'd, but I don't think anyone will anticipate nor react with SDI unless they have experienced the move multiple times.It's really super easy to SDI; the target is in near-constant hitlag and the attack can be seen coming from a mile away because of the 18 frame start-up. Throw in ASDI and any competent player should be able to escape after a few hits and get a free punish.
It's also terrible at covering the techroll to the edge of a platform because the attack pushes them off after a couple of hits + ASDI.
D-air can probably be useful when the opponent has to tech right in the middle of a platform, but when they must tech on the sides it might not be as good.
I'm not claiming it to be good when I even said I don't use it that often. I suggested it as an option to cover someone teching mid-platform as a potential low risk-high reward option. Now, I'm just defending it from being called outright bad solely because it has theoretical flaws and little evidence (as far as I know) of it being impractical. The only thing I had in mind was the statement Hungrybox made that D-air works against him, so that is really all I have to go on. I've seen a few non-platform cases with aMSa using d-air and it working, so I always had hope it could work on a platform.I don't buy your argument that just because the players whom you've played have never (A)SDI'd out of Yoshi's D-air, then Yoshi's D-air is a good choice for a tech punish.
Okay. Here's a simple test that definitively shows how bad/impractical Yoshi's D-air is.Now, I'm just defending it from being called outright bad solely because it has theoretical flaws and little evidence (as far as I know) of it being impractical.
Yes, that works, at least for the starting position Yoshi has in the examples in my previous post.Instead of 8 frames full jump to cover "bad" techroll, what about 1 frame dash?
Absolutely.Also, after the first U-air, is there enough frame advantage to F-air > F-tilt/D-smash instead of full jump U-air?
You are probably right about that. I am not sure why I forgot to think about character weight, but in any case ASDI down does not seem to be much of a problem. It might be possible to DI horizontally and C-stick down, but I can't test that in vanilla debug mode because the C-stick is used for the camera. Even if that works, it is % dependent anyway.IIRC ability to ASDI down is either independent of or very slightly dependent on target gravity, since the magnitude of ASDI down has to exceed vertical velocity on the first frame of knockback. It's probably more dependent on target weight since knockback is dependent on weight.
Kadano also states that the 3rd lowest laser height is equivalent to standing laser, and I know for a fact that standing lasers hit crouching Yoshi, therefore Yoshi and Marth have the same crouch profile.Based on the image from Kadano's Perfect Marth Class, Marth can crouch under all but the 3 lowest possible laser heights. After some preliminary testing, I can say that Yoshi can crouch under at least one of those 3. The other two heights are low enough to powershield while standing (they're about the height of Yoshi's legs).
Actually, shield knockback is a somewhat misleading term, as the units in this equation are actually velocity units used by the game. It's more appropriate to label this shield pushback velocity rather than shield knockback, since knockback and velocity are very different things when used to refer to attacks.Variable Shield Input
Digital/Max Analog = 1 (140/140)
Z Shield = 0.35 (49/140)
Min Analog = 0.30714 (43/140)
-- Range of analog 0.00-1.00 is analog increments 0-140. 0-42 (0.00-0.30) are ignored
-- If dip under 0.30 while shield remains up, use last > 0.30 amount
Shield Knockback
Defender (Yoshi) Shield KB = (floor(Damage) * Defender Analog Effect) + 0.4
-- Defender Analog Effect = 0.3 * {1 - [(Analog Shield - 0.3) / 0.7]}
--- Maximum = n/a
Hopefully that provides an adequate frame of reference.PStadium is 175.5 Mm across.and it's platforms are 30 Mm.
Final Destination is 171.1314 Mm across.
Dreamland is 154.5426 Mm across and it's middle right platform is 31.3709 Mm, and it's middle left platform is 29.6675 Mm and it's top platform is 38.0352 Mm.
Battlefield is 136.8 Mm across and it's platforms are 37.6 Mm.
FoD is 126.85448 Mm across and it's platforms are 28.5 Mm.
Yoshis is 112.6327 Mm across and it's platforms are 31.5 Mm.
One question: Where are you getting the value 1.2? The only thing I can think of is the attribute "Maximum H Air Mobility," but I was under the impression that that referred to how far you can drift. Isn't air speed governed by "Jump H Maximum Velicity," which for Yoshi is 1.5?When Yoshi slides off the ground, he retains all of his x-velocity, up to a maximum of 1.20, unless he uses neutral B while still on the ground (i.e., does a Vududash).
I am getting 1.20 experimentally. I don't have the game booted up at the moment, but I remember from playing around with the physics display that 1.20 decays immediately to 1.18-something and never exceeds that value again. I assume that's the value for Yoshi's "maximum" horizontal air mobility.One question: Where are you getting the value 1.2? The only thing I can think of is the attribute "Maximum H Air Mobility," but I was under the impression that that referred to how far you can drift. Isn't air speed governed by "Jump H Maximum Velicity," which for Yoshi is 1.5?
Those attribute names are from the program Master Hand, in case that is not clear.
Doesn't the decay happen only after the jump animation ends? Also I think during aerials the max speed is the same as jump h max velocity. At least with falcon if you do aerial just before jump animation would end, you won't slow down, and will move further than without doing aerial.1.50 IIRC is Yoshi's horizontal velocity on his first airborne frame of a running jump. That too gradually decays to 1.18-something.
I'm a little unsure of what you mean. Let me show you what I see. Suppose that Yoshi is standing still and then does a running jump, and the entire time I am holding my control stick at 0 degrees:Doesn't the decay happen only after the jump animation ends? Also I think during aerials the max speed is the same as jump h max velocity. At least with falcon if you do aerial just before jump animation would end, you won't slow down, and will move further than without doing aerial.