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Some Critique Please.

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
Hey, I talked to you on AIM :D

Both of you have a lot to learn.... dunno where to start.

Your bro needs to learn how to tech.

And you should learn the dthrow -> dair chain grab :)

Keep improving haha. I don't know, you don't see a lot of beginners these days so it's hard to critique that kind of playstyle.
 

PB&J

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
5,758
Location
lawrenceville, GA
practice dashdancing alot to wavedash after a while u will feel more in control..and if u have a problem with the d throw chaingrab for now practice down throw to up smash to dash attack or up aur or d throw to fsmash and practice wavelanding when following your oppenet ..practice these simple things first..remeber you have to crawl before you can walk then once your walking you can run then once you are running you can fl..just do things step by step dont get overwhelmed practing things that is too hard for you..but besides that keep it up..nana is the best
 

S.D

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
4,062
Location
Sleeping in a submarine
Yeah you both have a lot to work on. Look through the boards for guides and information on character specific stuff, watch some videos of chudat on youtube, practice wavedashing as an alternative to rolling, learn to chainthrow, watch the advanced how to play videos etc. Basically you need to get a lot more knowledge about the game, which happens with time and experience. For now i suggest youtubing some chu to learn the IC basics.
 

S.D

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
4,062
Location
Sleeping in a submarine
You still need to work on your basic tech skills and decision making in general.

Wavedashing is poor and inconsistent, perfecting your wavedashing comes with time. Work on short hopping, full hopped aerials are pretty much useless for icies except for uair and situational bair. Your grab game still needs work as it's your greatest weapon esp vs Falco. When you desynch a blizzard in a grab you can continue to jab with Popo to keep them in there longer and add damage. Don't blizzard in grab until over 70 percent as it will be escaped before you can work a grab combo. Also the best way to finish a throw on high percent is a down throw to usmash or f smash with Nana which will usually get you a stock. Practice d throw to SHdair with nana chain grabbing. This is a very useful technique for Icies esp vs fastfallers.

You also need to work on edgeguarding, which can be as simple as grabbing the ledge to stop your opponent from doing so or hitting a wavesmash when they recover. Just throwing out some ice bricks is a pretty hopeless esgeguarding technique. You both need to work on your l-cancelling, another important technique. L cancelling aerials means you can extend your combos and avoid being punished for missed aerials. For instance with icies if l cancel your sh nair (shffl) you can jab immediately then get a grab. It gives your game more flow.

I'm not gunna mince words you're both pretty terrible atm but the game takes time and practice and you will get there. Like I said before read about the metagame, watch the pros play to get a better sense of the game, strategy, combos and what you should and shouldnt be doing. This will help you more than any feedback at the moment because there is simply too much ground to cover.
 

ComboTurtle

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
1,866
Location
Australia
to the original poster.

1. i dont play ics, but yours are the worst ive ever seen

2. the music in your video makes me wanna kick you in the teeth

3. the falco is just as **** as you are


theres your critique
 

NOHK

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
181
Location
Milford/Boston, MA.
no doubt, thanks alot S.D. yeah i notice i do alot more air dodging than wavedashing.

and where to begin..

-If you would read previous posts you wuld find out that i have been playing for all of almost 7 weeks now.
-Music is a personal preference, mute/turn down your volume. Thats what I listen to because personally the game music is garbage. And i knwo for a Fact you would/could never kick me in the teeth.
-Once again, There are previous posts, read them. Thats why they are there. 7 weeks of legitimate game play.

So either come see me in melee, or with the hands. Either is fine, my location is clearly spelled out in both my brother and i's signature and "Location:".
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,258
Location
Massachusetts
to the original poster.

1. i dont play ics, but yours are the worst ive ever seen

2. the music in your video makes me wanna kick you in the teeth

3. the falco is just as **** as you are


theres your critique
tbh, you're not a good troll at all and most people completely ignore your posts.

SD: Be fair; he's been getting better consistently and is improving at a good rate. It's better to have a solid grasp of the basics than to try to work too much into your game. After my first 7 weeks I was still spamming rolls with mewtwo. ;)
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
NOHK, first off, stop using ice blocks against falco, your better off trying for dash grabs or short hopped fairs or dash attacks at mid percents.

Secondly, how you get good is by being punished for your mistakes, so here is what I want you to do, when your friend runs at you, if you think he will dash attack I want you to hold down on the control stick to crouch cancel it if you are under 40% then hit down on your c-stick, chase him and dash attack him. If you think he is going to drill I want you to shield then grab him, then downthrow forward smash, or if you think you can go for the dair chaingrab, remember to have nana short hop or it won't work, you don't even need to jump cancel the grab although it doesn't hurt.

Ice Climbers have one of the hardest short hops because you need to release their jump very quickly, start practicing them, it's important.

When he starts asking why he is getting beaten so badly, and believe me, you will absolutely destroy your friend by doing only those two things, then tell him how to beat it, he needs to dash attack less never and laser more, also he needs to start grabbing and forward throwing you, and using L canceled aerials against Nana or you. Now to get around your simple shield grabs he needs to L cancel, make sure he fast falls too or it won't work, and SHINE you before you can grab him.

Once you have learned to use those things to counter what he is doing, and he has learned to counter what you are doing to counter him, you will both have reached a level where you can beat anyone as good as you were by using just those few tactics. As you play more and more and learn more and more tactics and counter tactics, you will become much better at the game.
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
5,089
Location
Mass
yea just pretty much perfect wavedashing, SHing and Lcanceling, and more importantly try to implement them into your game. There's not really much else to tell you at this point, just keep practicing.

And if you are interested in winning more, do alot of wavesmashes [dsmash preferably].

edit: binx tell me how to **** ICs with falco
 

ComboTurtle

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
1,866
Location
Australia
no doubt, thanks alot S.D. yeah i notice i do alot more air dodging than wavedashing.

and where to begin..

-If you would read previous posts you wuld find out that i have been playing for all of almost 7 weeks now.
-Music is a personal preference, mute/turn down your volume. Thats what I listen to because personally the game music is garbage. And i knwo for a Fact you would/could never kick me in the teeth.
-Once again, There are previous posts, read them. Thats why they are there. 7 weeks of legitimate game play.

So either come see me in melee, or with the hands. Either is fine, my location is clearly spelled out in both my brother and i's signature and "Location:".
most people can wavedash after 7 weeks anyways the music is the worst part of the video gangsta.
p.s im not going to come to america just to kick your teeth
 

S.D

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
4,062
Location
Sleeping in a submarine
tbh, you're not a good troll at all and most people completely ignore your posts.

SD: Be fair; he's been getting better consistently and is improving at a good rate. It's better to have a solid grasp of the basics than to try to work too much into your game. After my first 7 weeks I was still spamming rolls with mewtwo. ;)
I appreciate that he is getting better, which is great to see, but I don't think my critique was overly harsh and I think both of them are well aware of their level of play atm. However this is precisely the reason they are asking for critique and i said what i believed would be most useful. Sure getting the basics down is important, but when I picked up Ice Climbers I wouldn't have had a clue what their strengths and weaknesses were had I not done my IC research. I agree with you that getting the basics down is important but it's also important to know what your end goal is too.

Anyways like I said yes you are clearly improving but there is still a long way to go. Keep up the good work my friend :)
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
lolz

I've just been spamming that endlessly. don't mind me.

For actual critique it's fortunate my brother is bad because i'm still used to this style of tech skill failure and not knowing what to do from stuff when he plays other characters.

Basically, with the Ics, your goal vs Falco is generally to knock him over or launch him in some manner so you can grab him. in fact that's pretty much your goal against most characters. because properly executed grabs are whole stocks.

wds should be your bread and butter. movement is one of the largest parts of this game. movement, and how you do it, is how you acquire your perfect spacing. it's how you keep yourself able to get into their space without being in range of their stuff. for ics this is wavedashing and wavelanding primarily, but also walking (super underrated), dash dance, empty sh, and all sorts of goodies. those, and l-cancel, should be second nature to you.

after l-canceling, being able to control your movement is the most important thing because it's what lets you control space. waveshielding is the ics' bread and butter. it is so good for them. their shield game, wd game, and punishment is what makes them as a character. you must learn how to move with them. your tech skill must be at least good to get use out of them. really strive in your matches to hit those wd f-tilts, wd u-tilts, l-cancel those sh ff bairs, shffl fairs.

don't focus on trying to out-defend him right now. you should be aggressing slowly and moving into his space. it's very important to know how to attack with any character, ic are no exception. similarly, learning to use waveshielding and whatnot offensively is another big part of them. shield approach is very useful. so is approaching so you have space and can hit them, and then waiting for them to do stuff so you can punish it.

your brother needs to be much more comfortable moving around the stage. for now it's important he gets his SHL up to par. for falco, spacing is different than spacing for most characters because it revolves heavily around platforms. he should look into Mogwai's training guide in the Falco boards because it covers what he needs to do.

For him, tech skill is going to be a major point to work on. He needs to SHFFL Aerials on shields with perfect consistency. He can't afford to miss those L-cancels. Good people will kill him for them. he has to get much, much more comfortable with that pistol, it's one of Falco's best moves. He also needs to learn how to space with it and keep a SHL length away.

But I don't know Falco intimately enough to help him beyond that. If you direct him to Mogwai's stuff (I think technomancer wrote something good on Falco stuff a while ago if someone wants to dredge that up) there's probably a lot of useful stuff for him.

For now just focus on being able to control your characters on the ground, though, and approach / retreat game. And while you do so, try to work on your technical consistency with L-cancels, wavedash, controlling your dd, etc.
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,258
Location
Massachusetts
To add onto that, avoid stage-wide **** combos/techchases, letting me u-air combo you through platforms, and put that grab DI you learned to better use. ;)
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
basically just grab more than you normally would and don't get complacent with your positioning. always strive to pressure them and they can't setup some fancy schmancy defense and then you'll kill popo's ***** and he's helpless.

also, di the grabs and the dairs and other crap properly for the love of god. and if you think he's going to come in with grab because you say yourself mess up, mash preemptively. preemptive mashing is a really good trick but nobody does it lol.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
f-throw a lot.

use platforms for stuff.

shine a lot.

whenever you can hit them offstage do it. their recovery has nothing on your f-smash/spinny kick.
Do this, basically ICs can't powershield because nana is stupid so just laser at mid distances but mix it up really well with drill shines on the shield, and laser grabs to forward throw, don't full hop. Use platforms by wavelanding on them to throw off the ice climber. After a forward or downthrow kill Nana or damage whichever climber looks safer, if you keep the laser pressure then the ICs have to run at you, they can't really wavedash well vs the lasers, they can't ice block, and if they did it wouldn't matter cause you could just jump over it and pressure their shield, even in the middle of lasering us.

So basically their only options are dash attack, try for a grab, or uair, you can beat the first two with full hopped drills and the uair by not jumping. Watch out for the dair after the uair though cause it can throw you off, try to crouch cancel it into a smash or shield grab into another forward throw combo.

Good luck.

And of course you know, if I grab you, your dead.
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,258
Location
Massachusetts
btw, trying to act cocky isn't going to help you beat this IC player, you just need to get smarter, drop the pointless trash talk.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
wc's black people are hilarious on the intarwebs but annoying as **** irl sometimes

also lovage get *****

if you read this
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
5,089
Location
Mass
lol ty for the tips[minus kyu], i'll update you guys on how i proceeded to **** said ICs player.
quick question: does falco's dair out prioritize uair and utilt in most situations?
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
in my experience, no.

not if the ic did theirs early like they should.

if your dair beats or trades with their up moves the hitbox probably wasn't out or fully extended yet.
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,258
Location
Massachusetts
lol ty for the tips[minus kyu], i'll update you guys on how i proceeded to **** said ICs player.
quick question: does falco's dair out prioritize uair and utilt in most situations?
U-air and u-tilt the way I space them come out as you jump, so no, you can't even start the d-air lol. Seriously, aim for winning a game before aiming for ****.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
ICs up moves wreck falcos down moves, falco is fast though, and if you are short hopping you should be hitting on the side enough to avoid the tilt and uair.
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
5,089
Location
Mass
U-air and u-tilt the way I space them come out as you jump, so no, you can't even start the d-air lol. Seriously, aim for winning a game before aiming for ****.
i'd just go ness if i was aiming for ****.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
also lovage get *****
Lovage beat me in losers at the last three tournies I've been to, and winners also in the most recent one. :(

He randomly got really good within the past month, lol. I'll probably post the vids from the latest one for criticism whenever they're up. *glares at Wobbles*
 
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