Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Basic Stuff
There has been some discussion in the general chat about "staggered aerials" (I chose this name arbitrarily because there was no easy way to describe it). They are performed by dashing in one direction, then dashing in the opposite direction and jumping. The result is that Nana lags behind you--moreso than she normally would--creating a spatial separation between Popo and Nana. The degree of horizontal displacement can be controlled by varying the length of your dashes and the timing of your jump.
The most obvious use for this technique is extending the horizontal range of your aerial hitboxes. The downside is that you also extend the horizontal range of your hurtboxes (i.e. you become a larger target) and it takes longer to perform than a standard aerial. Some examples:
- Fox is laser camping near the ledge. You don't want to approach directly, because if you make the wrong decision you might get juked and sent flying off the stage. Instead you can use a staggered sh b-air to send Nana into his space. Popo stays up to ~2 character lengths closer to center stage, which means that even if Nana gets hit, Popo will be out of range, giving you an opportunity to retaliate.
- The opponent is trying to run away, using the side platforms on Battlefield. If you try to sh u-air, they can jump over you and attack from the side. If you try to fulljump u-air, they can retreat or platform drop to gain a positional advantage. Instead, you can try staggering your u-airs, so that Popo falls back towards center stage while Nana pressures the platform/path to the upper platform with her u-air. You also cover a wider horizontal space, so it's difficult for your opponent to attack Popo from the side.
- Aerial Blizzard trap: If you stagger a jumping Blizzard, facing towards the opponent, they might try to jump over you and counterattack. However, since Nana is lagging significantly behind Popo, they might only hit Popo, cancelling your Blizzard but falling right into Nana's. This can be useful at lower percents, when Popo won't be sent flying away, or if your opponent is approaching with weaker aerials. It's fundamentally the same as desynching off single-hit projectiles, except it works against any hitbox as long as Nana is safely out of range.
- Staggered Ice Blocks: Staggering your Ice Blocks is almost like desynching them completely, since the Ice Blocks will move across the stage one after enough, rather than sticking together.
In all of the above examples, the horizontal displacement is such that Nana is sent behind Popo. For b-air and Blizzard this is usually desirable. However, it's also possible with a slight modification to make Nana jump in front of you, allowing you to do the same type of bait with n-air or f-air. This is done by turning around before you jump--either by pivoting, or by dashing back in the original direction, immediately shieldstopping, and jumping out of shield. The entire sequence is dash forward -> dash back -> dash turnaround (pivot or shieldstop) -> jump.
Platform Basics
The main reason I'm making this thread is to go over some platform movement options that I don't believe have been explored much in the past. Ancient Ice Climber knowledge dictates that you should avoid landing on platforms whenever possible, because ICs are much safer below the opponent than above, they don't move quickly enough through the air to dodge and counterattack, once you get launched it's easy for the opponent to kill Nana, etc.
With all that said, there are still some nifty things you can do using platforms. I think it's worth practicing your platform movement options so that you don't get stuck on the platforms, and potentially turn your weakness into a strength.
Platform dropping is a really fundamental aspect of techskill that can make your platform game much less predictable. Without platform dropping your options are basically limited to jumping and running or wavedashing off the platform, which makes it fairly straighforward for your opponent to call out your movement. Platform dropping opens up a range of other possible spacings. The two main methods for platform dropping are:
- Shai dropping: While dashing, press down on the control stick and shield 3 to 5 frames later.
- Standard shield drop: Hold forward before shielding to tilt your shield, then rotate the control stick down one notch to drop through the platform.
Options out of shield dropping include u-air (good for hitting through the platform), d-air/n-air (which are fast and can intercept opponents' jumps), b-air (overall amazing move), f-air (on BF/PS/Dreamland, the hitbox will come out just before you land, which makes it safe on shield and CC), and waveland (good for evading the opponent). A comprehensive shield dropping guide with frame data can be found here.
Super Cool Stuff
As always, because there are two Climbers, there are tons of little intricacies to learn with every aspect of their movement. In this case you can manipulate your shield drop by adjusting your position beforehand. You can "stagger" Popo and Nana before a shield drop the same way you can before a jump--by dashing one way and then the other, immediately followed by either a Shai drop or a turnaround Shai drop (depending whether you want Popo or Nana in front). Here are some applications:
- Shield drop staggered aerial: Simply stagger Popo and Nana before Shai dropping, and perform the aerial of your choice. U-air is cool because it pokes through in two distinct locations, covering most of the platform in hitboxes. D-air and n-air are also cool because they cover a large amount of space below the platform, and because when they're staggered, sometimes Nana's aerial will hit much later than Popo's, extending the hitstun and allowing you to land safely.
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- Staggered Ice Blocks: Same as before, but you can choose whether to land on the ground or on the platform. Landing on the platform shortens the duration of the move, giving you more time to move in after shooting the Ice Blocks.
- Staggered Blizzard trap: Same as before, but here you would typically be attacking from above as your opponent tries to poke you from below. Dashing back then forward (towards center stage) before shield dropping could move Nana out of harm's way and let you turn a bad situation into a Blizzard combo.
- Dash dance desynch: Coincidentally, the movements you need to perform a staggered platform drop are the same that initiate a dash dance desynch. If you crouch and input a command just before inputting shield, you can have Nana perform a move on the platform while Popo shield drops. This option is sort of cool from an option coverage perspective--you can throw out hitboxes on the platform to cover a fulljump approach and throw out hitboxes below or run away. Note: there are two ways to perform the dash dance desynch. You can either dash back, then forward, then crouch and perform a move with Nana ("two dash" variant) or dash forward, then back, then forward, then crouch ("standard" dash dance desynch).
- Shield Drop Blizzard trick: Perform a "two dash" variant of the dash dance desynch so that Nana starts Blizzard at the edge of a platform. If you simultaneously shield drop with Popo, she'll stay synched with you, dropping down with Blizzard as Popo falls towards the ground. The input sequence is something like: dash back -> dash forward -> press down + B -> immediately shield. Performed correctly, it will look like you Shai dropped directly into a desynched Nana Blizzard. If you fail to shield drop, Nana will slide backwards off the platform (which sometimes means off the stage... so make sure you can shield drop consistently). This took me a while to work out, but it's not impossibly hard to learn, and it's very useful in my opinion.*
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- Approaching Blizzard: If you perform a dash dance desynch into Blizzard as you run off a platform, Nana will slide off, and her Blizzard will follow you into center stage. Easy to perform, but only useful if your opponent is far away. One possible application is right at the beginning of a match, when both players start on opposite platforms.
- Platform Drop Desynch: Platform drop, immediately jump, and waveland back onto the platform; Nana will drop down and only Popo will waveland. You can make it look almost as if you're desynching out of wavedash (e.g., Shai drop -> immediate waveland off the platform -> Popo f-air -> Nana f-smash/Blizzard).
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- Whoop Desynch: This has been discussed before, and featured in multiple videos, but it's worth mentioning here because I don't think anyone has implemented it effectively. The "whoop desynch" refers to when you try to waveland onto the platform, but only Nana touches ground--the result is Popo airdodging to the ground, while Nana wavelands off the platform and quickly rejoins him. Despite the name, it can be done on command fairly easily if you know the platform waveland timing. I can imagine it being useful in situations where your opponent's back is to the ledge; if they see you jump towards the platform they might roll or run forward to go underneath you--but instead run into a surprise Nana Blizzard, while Popo lands on the ground ready to grab.
*The shield drop Blizzard doesn't work on the side platforms of Yoshi's story because they are too close to the ledge--Nana falls right off the stage. However, there are a few cool YS-specific shenanigans that come as a result of this. A well-space staggered shield drop is a quick way to have Nana grab the ledge. If Randall happens to pass by before she gets up, you can actually control her while she's off stage (i.e. input a smash/taunt before she slides off Randall and regrabs the ledge). You can also perform staggered shield dropped aerials so that Nana falls off stage; for example, staggered d-air can send Nana plummeting straight down along the edge of the stage, Brawl-style. One other (very situational) trick is that if Nana lands on a side platform while Popo is directly below her, you can desynch by performing a shield drop with Nana (Popo will spotdodge, allowing Nana to perform any aerial, Ice Block, or Blizzard).
There has been some discussion in the general chat about "staggered aerials" (I chose this name arbitrarily because there was no easy way to describe it). They are performed by dashing in one direction, then dashing in the opposite direction and jumping. The result is that Nana lags behind you--moreso than she normally would--creating a spatial separation between Popo and Nana. The degree of horizontal displacement can be controlled by varying the length of your dashes and the timing of your jump.
The most obvious use for this technique is extending the horizontal range of your aerial hitboxes. The downside is that you also extend the horizontal range of your hurtboxes (i.e. you become a larger target) and it takes longer to perform than a standard aerial. Some examples:
- Fox is laser camping near the ledge. You don't want to approach directly, because if you make the wrong decision you might get juked and sent flying off the stage. Instead you can use a staggered sh b-air to send Nana into his space. Popo stays up to ~2 character lengths closer to center stage, which means that even if Nana gets hit, Popo will be out of range, giving you an opportunity to retaliate.
- The opponent is trying to run away, using the side platforms on Battlefield. If you try to sh u-air, they can jump over you and attack from the side. If you try to fulljump u-air, they can retreat or platform drop to gain a positional advantage. Instead, you can try staggering your u-airs, so that Popo falls back towards center stage while Nana pressures the platform/path to the upper platform with her u-air. You also cover a wider horizontal space, so it's difficult for your opponent to attack Popo from the side.
- Aerial Blizzard trap: If you stagger a jumping Blizzard, facing towards the opponent, they might try to jump over you and counterattack. However, since Nana is lagging significantly behind Popo, they might only hit Popo, cancelling your Blizzard but falling right into Nana's. This can be useful at lower percents, when Popo won't be sent flying away, or if your opponent is approaching with weaker aerials. It's fundamentally the same as desynching off single-hit projectiles, except it works against any hitbox as long as Nana is safely out of range.
- Staggered Ice Blocks: Staggering your Ice Blocks is almost like desynching them completely, since the Ice Blocks will move across the stage one after enough, rather than sticking together.
In all of the above examples, the horizontal displacement is such that Nana is sent behind Popo. For b-air and Blizzard this is usually desirable. However, it's also possible with a slight modification to make Nana jump in front of you, allowing you to do the same type of bait with n-air or f-air. This is done by turning around before you jump--either by pivoting, or by dashing back in the original direction, immediately shieldstopping, and jumping out of shield. The entire sequence is dash forward -> dash back -> dash turnaround (pivot or shieldstop) -> jump.
Platform Basics
The main reason I'm making this thread is to go over some platform movement options that I don't believe have been explored much in the past. Ancient Ice Climber knowledge dictates that you should avoid landing on platforms whenever possible, because ICs are much safer below the opponent than above, they don't move quickly enough through the air to dodge and counterattack, once you get launched it's easy for the opponent to kill Nana, etc.
With all that said, there are still some nifty things you can do using platforms. I think it's worth practicing your platform movement options so that you don't get stuck on the platforms, and potentially turn your weakness into a strength.
Platform dropping is a really fundamental aspect of techskill that can make your platform game much less predictable. Without platform dropping your options are basically limited to jumping and running or wavedashing off the platform, which makes it fairly straighforward for your opponent to call out your movement. Platform dropping opens up a range of other possible spacings. The two main methods for platform dropping are:
- Shai dropping: While dashing, press down on the control stick and shield 3 to 5 frames later.
- Standard shield drop: Hold forward before shielding to tilt your shield, then rotate the control stick down one notch to drop through the platform.
Options out of shield dropping include u-air (good for hitting through the platform), d-air/n-air (which are fast and can intercept opponents' jumps), b-air (overall amazing move), f-air (on BF/PS/Dreamland, the hitbox will come out just before you land, which makes it safe on shield and CC), and waveland (good for evading the opponent). A comprehensive shield dropping guide with frame data can be found here.
Super Cool Stuff
As always, because there are two Climbers, there are tons of little intricacies to learn with every aspect of their movement. In this case you can manipulate your shield drop by adjusting your position beforehand. You can "stagger" Popo and Nana before a shield drop the same way you can before a jump--by dashing one way and then the other, immediately followed by either a Shai drop or a turnaround Shai drop (depending whether you want Popo or Nana in front). Here are some applications:
- Shield drop staggered aerial: Simply stagger Popo and Nana before Shai dropping, and perform the aerial of your choice. U-air is cool because it pokes through in two distinct locations, covering most of the platform in hitboxes. D-air and n-air are also cool because they cover a large amount of space below the platform, and because when they're staggered, sometimes Nana's aerial will hit much later than Popo's, extending the hitstun and allowing you to land safely.
- Staggered Ice Blocks: Same as before, but you can choose whether to land on the ground or on the platform. Landing on the platform shortens the duration of the move, giving you more time to move in after shooting the Ice Blocks.
- Staggered Blizzard trap: Same as before, but here you would typically be attacking from above as your opponent tries to poke you from below. Dashing back then forward (towards center stage) before shield dropping could move Nana out of harm's way and let you turn a bad situation into a Blizzard combo.
- Dash dance desynch: Coincidentally, the movements you need to perform a staggered platform drop are the same that initiate a dash dance desynch. If you crouch and input a command just before inputting shield, you can have Nana perform a move on the platform while Popo shield drops. This option is sort of cool from an option coverage perspective--you can throw out hitboxes on the platform to cover a fulljump approach and throw out hitboxes below or run away. Note: there are two ways to perform the dash dance desynch. You can either dash back, then forward, then crouch and perform a move with Nana ("two dash" variant) or dash forward, then back, then forward, then crouch ("standard" dash dance desynch).
- Shield Drop Blizzard trick: Perform a "two dash" variant of the dash dance desynch so that Nana starts Blizzard at the edge of a platform. If you simultaneously shield drop with Popo, she'll stay synched with you, dropping down with Blizzard as Popo falls towards the ground. The input sequence is something like: dash back -> dash forward -> press down + B -> immediately shield. Performed correctly, it will look like you Shai dropped directly into a desynched Nana Blizzard. If you fail to shield drop, Nana will slide backwards off the platform (which sometimes means off the stage... so make sure you can shield drop consistently). This took me a while to work out, but it's not impossibly hard to learn, and it's very useful in my opinion.*
- Approaching Blizzard: If you perform a dash dance desynch into Blizzard as you run off a platform, Nana will slide off, and her Blizzard will follow you into center stage. Easy to perform, but only useful if your opponent is far away. One possible application is right at the beginning of a match, when both players start on opposite platforms.
- Platform Drop Desynch: Platform drop, immediately jump, and waveland back onto the platform; Nana will drop down and only Popo will waveland. You can make it look almost as if you're desynching out of wavedash (e.g., Shai drop -> immediate waveland off the platform -> Popo f-air -> Nana f-smash/Blizzard).
- Whoop Desynch: This has been discussed before, and featured in multiple videos, but it's worth mentioning here because I don't think anyone has implemented it effectively. The "whoop desynch" refers to when you try to waveland onto the platform, but only Nana touches ground--the result is Popo airdodging to the ground, while Nana wavelands off the platform and quickly rejoins him. Despite the name, it can be done on command fairly easily if you know the platform waveland timing. I can imagine it being useful in situations where your opponent's back is to the ledge; if they see you jump towards the platform they might roll or run forward to go underneath you--but instead run into a surprise Nana Blizzard, while Popo lands on the ground ready to grab.
*The shield drop Blizzard doesn't work on the side platforms of Yoshi's story because they are too close to the ledge--Nana falls right off the stage. However, there are a few cool YS-specific shenanigans that come as a result of this. A well-space staggered shield drop is a quick way to have Nana grab the ledge. If Randall happens to pass by before she gets up, you can actually control her while she's off stage (i.e. input a smash/taunt before she slides off Randall and regrabs the ledge). You can also perform staggered shield dropped aerials so that Nana falls off stage; for example, staggered d-air can send Nana plummeting straight down along the edge of the stage, Brawl-style. One other (very situational) trick is that if Nana lands on a side platform while Popo is directly below her, you can desynch by performing a shield drop with Nana (Popo will spotdodge, allowing Nana to perform any aerial, Ice Block, or Blizzard).
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