So...Neutral Game?

[HyperSilver]

So whats a Neutral game and how do I maintain a positive one?
Neutral Game w/ Mewtwo.... would you just chill back and shoot shadowballs and find a way to get in?
(reference to Wolf's Neutral) or should I confuse my opponent w/ Teleports & find a way in?
how does one improve ones neutral?

 

[Jamwa]

you can skip the neutral by using tp

 

[InfinityCollision]

you can skip the neutral by using tp

That's like using QD too much in neutral: you're gonna get bodied by opponents who know better. Teleport is a positioning, punish, and sometimes combo breaker tool when used onstage. Basic use of teleport does not constitute a good approach, and even more advanced usage carries a lot of risk in raw approaches.

Mewtwo's neutral is complex and very matchup-dependent. He has many useful tools, none of which are dominant, but the sum of these parts gives him great flexibility. The basic gist of it is that you want to play hot and cold. Invade their space with the threat of your wall of hitboxes, back out again if it looks like they can counterattack. Seek openings from a safe distance so that you can start your pressure again or punish a poor option. Use shadow balls to control the tempo and make them play your game. Use your unusual movement to conceal your intentions and make your opponents uncertain in their actions.

I'll elaborate on his neutral in greater depth in an upcoming thread, should be up early next week.

 

[Plebiscuit]

I'll elaborate on his neutral in greater depth in an upcoming thread, should be up early next week.

I look forward to reading it. On the topic of movement in neutral, since it's been brought up, what movement options and mixups do you find most useful for spacing and approaching well? I find myself moving mostly with:

1: wavedash/lands
2: dashes (not dashdance, I can't think of a time you'd want to, tell me if I'm wrong)
3: sh teles
4: hover stuff
5: moonwalks
7: that spinny walk-pivot thing from Brawl (4 $tylin)

And that's about all I can think of. What other movement options do you guys find useful?

 

[X Riptide X]

I look forward to reading it. On the topic of movement in neutral, since it's been brought up, what movement options and mixups do you find most useful for spacing and approaching well? I find myself moving mostly with:

1: wavedash/lands
2: dashes (not dashdance, I can't think of a time you'd want to, tell me if I'm wrong)
3: sh teles
4: hover stuff
5: moonwalks
7: that spinny walk-pivot thing from Brawl (4 $tylin)

And that's about all I can think of. What other movement options do you guys find useful?

Dash dance, when incorporated with Mewtwo's other movement options, helps keep his movement even more unpredictable than it already is. Save for that, I see no use for it, as M2 has both a slow and short dash. Moonwalks can help with baiting approaches, but wavedash is the crux of Mewtwo. Hover and Teleport are also absolutely crucial, but I think his wavedash is his most rudimentary, essential movement option.

Moonwalk into backwards wavedash is pretty good, and chaining multiple teleports together (Blue2 goes over this in his tech vid, and Battlefield is the best stage for it) also helps keep your movement fresh.

 

[X Riptide X]

So whats a Neutral game and how do I maintain a positive one?
Neutral Game w/ Mewtwo.... would you just chill back and shoot shadowballs and find a way to get in?
(reference to Wolf's Neutral) or should I confuse my opponent w/ Teleports & find a way in?
how does one improve ones neutral?

In regards to the OP, all I can say is learn all of Mewtwo's techs and try experimenting to find the best ways to chain them together. He has so many options.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I look forward to reading it. On the topic of movement in neutral, since it's been brought up, what movement options and mixups do you find most useful for spacing and approaching well? I find myself moving mostly with:

1: wavedash/lands
2: dashes (not dashdance, I can't think of a time you'd want to, tell me if I'm wrong)
3: sh teles
4: hover stuff
5: moonwalks
7: that spinny walk-pivot thing from Brawl (4 $tylin)

And that's about all I can think of. What other movement options do you guys find useful?

Dashdancing can be somewhat useful as a means of further mixing up your movement, basically what Riptide said about that. I mostly do Taj-style DDs, which mix forward dashes with wavedashing forward/back, moonwalking, and stickywalking. Lets me face my opponent the entire time. Turning away from your opponent isn't nearly as bad as it was in Melee, but aside from very specific situations you're usually better off facing your opponent.

The one major thing you missed for movement in neutral imo is Shadow Ball cancels with momentum shifts. Maybe instant DJ platform lands, but that's more niche and requires frame perfect DJ input. From there it's all about integrating combinations of his different options. Wavedash into full momentum hover (really important for his pressure game, as it significantly extends his functional reach out of a wavedash), edge cancels into hover, wavebounced Shadow Ball canceling as you dash/moonwalk/waveland/edgecancel off a platform into hover or waveland (can also effectively NIL by delaying the cancel timing slightly so the animation ends right as you land), etc. The more comfortable you become with each technique individually and in combination with other techniques, the more uses you'll find for them. Mewtwo's movement is incredibly fluid when you become proficient with everything he can do.

 

[Plebiscuit]

>Wavedash into full momentum hover
>Wavebounced Shadow Ball canceling as you dash/moonwalk/waveland/edgecancel off a platform into hover or waveland

I'm gonna practice these right now. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[X Riptide X]

Maybe instant DJ platform lands, but that's more niche and requires frame perfect DJ input.

It may be slightly less efficient, but couldn't you just do a full jump into waveland? It's much more forgiving with the inputs, and has more or less the same effect.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Of course, but the DJ NIL lets you act 10 frames sooner.

 

[Tomaster]

I've been approaching a lot with hover bairs lately.. And it's seems i get punished a lot for it. Is there a way to make this option safer or should I just avoid it?

 

[InfinityCollision]

Avoid it. Bair's animation and all landing animations put Mewtwo's tail near the center of the z-axis, meaning it's more likely that a counterattack will clip his tail hurtboxes. It's also relatively unrewarding and is only notable in neutral situations for being such a long-ranged poke. Bair pokes do have a place, but mostly in defensive situations where you're moving out of reach as you attack and are thus more difficult to punish.

 

[X Riptide X]

I've been approaching a lot with hover bairs lately.. And it's seems i get punished a lot for it. Is there a way to make this option safer or should I just avoid it?

Hover cancel up air is a better option for neutral game; it still has a large hitbox, but the amount of time your hurt box remains in reach is relatively shorter. Hover cancels in general make you less vulnerable when attacking, because they have even less lag than SHFFL'd aerials. Besides, you shouldn't just be hovering in with an attack. Mewtwo's hover isn't really fast, so the opponent has more time to react.

 

[AndyT0073]

is dtilt a good option to use in neutral for spacing/approach? i use dtilt alot and i usually get a grab if it lands. what would be a staple move in m2's neutral and how is it applied? kind of off topic but does dthrow>hc fair> regrab actually work as a chaingrab on some characters or are the pm cpus just bad?

 

[~Frozen~]

Dtilt is one of Mewtwo's staple options since Melee. Long range, quick IASA, and pops people up for combos at a wide range of percents. It's only real downside is that it's prone to ASDI Down/CC, but you can mix in JC grabs, HC fairs, and spaced Ftilts to keep people from just holding down.

Dthrow does not true combo on any character with proper DI, though it sets up a tech chase on about half the cast at low to mid percents. Mewtwo's throws are mostly positional outside of his killer Uthrow.

 

[Kapapanerp]

So what approach options are generally considered his best? I usually go with wd d-tilt, hc fair or shadow ball to tele-reverse fair against campy characters.

Also, from my experience, hover bair WoP is pretty good in neutral vs rushdown characters if well spaced

 

[InfinityCollision]

So what approach options are generally considered his best? I usually go with wd d-tilt, hc fair or shadow ball to tele-reverse fair against campy characters.

Also, from my experience, hover bair WoP is pretty good in neutral vs rushdown characters if well spaced

Gonna direct you to my posts here and here, and suggest that you read this (particularly, but not exclusively the section on "approaching") as well.

 

[AndyT0073]

What would be the optimal way to tech chase as mewtwo? I was playing a zss player and using dthrow->hc fair but he was pretty consistent with di'ing towards the ground and teching to avoid the fair. Later into the match i realized that if he tech rolled i could usually get a regrab and if he didn't tech he would get hit by the fair. When he started teching in place i stopped getting punishes but would replacing hc fair with hc nair eliminate this problem bc of the hitboxes lasting longer? This method was really simple and effective for me but if there are better ways to tech chase as mewtwo i would rather use the better method. thx for the advice and help

 

[RadicalFuzz]

Off of down throw here's what I usually do:

-Tech backwards gets punished by teleport aerials and, depending on fallspeed, fully charged shadow ball if you throw it ASAP
-Tech in place gets punished by anything out of a dash forward (grab, hc aerial, dash attack, etc) and fully charged shadow ball if they fall somewhat slowly
-Tech forward gets punished by pretty much anything besides teleport and fully charged shadow balls

There's obviously some overlap, like dashing forward allows you to theoretically react to a tech forward and hc bair or pivot grab, but this is the basic tree I use. Sometimes we get the spacey player who's afraid of being offstage and they DI in when you dthrow them on ledge and we can just take the stock lol

 

[InfinityCollision]

What would be the optimal way to tech chase as mewtwo? I was playing a zss player and using dthrow->hc fair but he was pretty consistent with di'ing towards the ground and teching to avoid the fair. Later into the match i realized that if he tech rolled i could usually get a regrab and if he didn't tech he would get hit by the fair. When he started teching in place i stopped getting punishes but would replacing hc fair with hc nair eliminate this problem bc of the hitboxes lasting longer? This method was really simple and effective for me but if there are better ways to tech chase as mewtwo i would rather use the better method. thx for the advice and help

Mewtwo's ability to tech chase on reaction is somewhat limited by his mobility options, so option coverage without sacrificing your ability to maintain pressure isn't a bad route to take.

Fair and nair are both fine for covering no tech. I'd HC the nair sooner rather than later to maximize your ability to cover each option if they do tech. Dtilt's not a bad choice either if you need to get a hitbox out in a hurry. Grab, dtilt, or jab1 on reaction to tech in place as spacing/reaction time/common responses from your opponent permit. Tech away is difficult to cover on reaction unless their techroll sucks, so there's a fair chance you'll end up wavedashing after them to set up a grab/normal/HC aerial mixup situation. Teleport aerials are far too slow to use on reaction. Tech in is fairly easy to cover since you'll have better position, just have to react properly. Shadow Ball is sometimes a decent option if it'll kill since it can cover multiple options, potentially including tech away.