Smooth lander badge now easier to get.

[Revan_23]

I don't know if everyone knows about this but in the wii u version you get the smooth lander badge when you unlock all of the custom moves. Since we all agree that custom moves should be allowed we should also give the smooth landing equipment a try. I've tried some games with my friends and we all seem to die at around 98%+ which isn't too bad if we play with 4 stocks.

 

[Deadlybroth]

Does it work for every character? And are the buffs randomized or are they set?

 

[Revan_23]

Works for every character. It's always +36 attack and -35 defense.

Everyone gets a default "agility badge" and "protection badge"(which isnt randomized) that you can equip with smooth lander to even out the stats a bit which comes out to be +22 attack -14 defense +7 speed.

 

[Deadlybroth]

Works for every character. It's always +36 attack and -35 defense.

I meant for different Wii U's, have you tested that? Or else can we get someone to confirm?

 

[Revan_23]

I meant for different Wii U's, have you tested that? Or else can we get someone to confirm?

Both of my friends unlocked it on their consoles and its still always +36 attack and -35 defense.

 

[Deadlybroth]

Both of my friends unlocked it on their consoles and its still always +36 attack and -35 defense.

That's interesting. Although finding equipment to offset that would be a massive pain, so there's a tradeoff. But now that getting it is more accessible, we can do more testing on on how it affects gameplay.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I doubt it'll ever become tournament standard for this to be equipped, but still very interesting that we have a reliable way to get it now.

 

[T0MMY]

We all agree custom moves should be allowed? I don't know what you're talking about, I didn't agree.

 

[Jaxas]

We all agree custom moves should be allowed? I don't know what you're talking about, I didn't agree.

The vast majority of the community appears to have decided that Custom Moves should be completely legal, if only we could find some easy way to unlock them.
This obviously wouldn't be the case for say online tournaments (as you can't view your opponent's loadouts to see if they have custom equipment), but for in person there's no real reason not to let them be used (outside of unlocking them, but that's something that only matters for the next few months) and a bunch of reasons for them to be legal (more depth, many more viable characters, etc).

 

[Tristan_win]

....And not a single **** was given....

Just because this seem to be easier to obtain does not defeat the argument that changing the status of all characters would only help isolate us from new players wanting to get into the competitive smash scene. Using equipment in my mind fall into the same category as changing damage ratio to 1.2 or playing special smash on fast.

Maybe this would make the game better but we no longer be playing the same game anymore.

edit: ^-^' Although good note, thank you.

 

[DunnoBro]

....And not a single **** was given....

Just because this seem to be easier to obtain does not defeat the argument that changing the status of all characters would only help isolate us from new players wanting to get into the competitive smash scene. Using equipment in my mind fall into the same category as changing damage ratio to 1.2 or playing special smash on fast.

Maybe this would make the game better but we no longer be playing the same game anymore.

edit: ^-^' Although good note, thank you.

It's actually very relevant as the biggest hurdle against it was "Equipment is randomized, hard to get" though obviously it's still unlikely it'll be utilized at this stage.

But using smooth lander is like adding l-canceling, not 1.2 damage or fast special. Depending on other set unlocks (like from events) we might actually get a list of approved equipment for side events down the way.

 

[EPsilon933]

....And not a single **** was given....

Just because this seem to be easier to obtain does not defeat the argument that changing the status of all characters would only help isolate us from new players wanting to get into the competitive smash scene. Using equipment in my mind fall into the same category as changing damage ratio to 1.2 or playing special smash on fast.

Maybe this would make the game better but we no longer be playing the same game anymore.

We play with banned stages, we ban items, we changed the mode to stock, and we have a 3 step process of striking stages for game 1 and a 4 step process for counterpicking the next games. What more is another rule setting change?

Something similar has happened in competitive Halo. Settings as tiny as running speed being 110% were used

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think this should be taken on account in the futute. Smooth Lander now being easy to unlock could make it fine set equipment for playing along with other two ones mentioned and could possibly give fleetway to standard equipment-based matches.

 

[DunnoBro]

The issue is the stat diff though. Hopefully there's a way to make it mostly/completely blank with stuff everyone games from the game.

 

[Tristan_win]

We play with banned stages, we ban items, we changed the mode to stock, and we have a 3 step process of striking stages for game 1 and a 4 step process for counterpicking the next games. What more is another rule setting change?

Something similar has happened in competitive Halo. Settings as tiny as running speed being 110% were used

We ban stages to help cut back on hazards deciding matches and to fight against unfair gameplay(aka running away the whole match), we ban items due to their random and unfair nature to everyone, we change to stock to encourage more aggressive matches, we have that process to promote fair play. Everything you listed are things that effect the nature of the match but it does not change the game it's self. With decrease landing lag on EVERYTHING the game would change, air dodge into the ground would be safer, landing B moves would end quicker (please correct me if I'm wrong) and aerials would be more spam friendly. Whole combo's would be possible that they normally wouldn't be and it would change match up's. Then there's the fact it also decrease attack power so people would be killing later too which is it's own can of worms.

I think adding smooth landing to the game would effect gameplay more then any rule we currently have, with maybe the exception to allowing only certain stages.

 

[EPsilon933]

We ban stages to help cut back on hazards deciding matches and to fight against unfair gameplay(aka running away the whole match), we ban items due to their random and unfair nature to everyone, we change to stock to encourage more aggressive matches, we have that process to promote fair play. Everything you listed are things that effect the nature of the match but it does not change the game it's self. With decrease landing lag on EVERYTHING the game would change, air dodge into the ground would be safer, landing B moves would end quicker (please correct me if I'm wrong) and aerials would be more spam friendly. Whole combo's would be possible that they normally wouldn't be and it would change match up's. Then there's the fact it also decrease attack power so people would be killing later too which is it's own can of worms.

I think adding smooth landing to the game would effect gameplay more then any rule we currently have, with maybe the exception to allowing only certain stages.

I think the cost of an extra barrier in worth the improved gameplay that'll retain players. Showing off better gameplay on twitch and youtube would encourage new players to want to try it more. Or maybe at least keep watching it. It's just bigger and different from what the community's used to

Changing match ups wouldn't matter. They can be relearned

I do agree that decreased attack power could become a problem. It really needs testing

 

[Nintymat]

Excuse my ignorance because I havent touched equipment at all yet, but I thought the problem with smooth lander was that the RNG stat increases/decreases would be too hard to balance out to give everyone a fair fight.

If it UNIVERSALLY gives +35 Attack -36 Defense what is the problem? Everyone is level.

Also not buying your argument Tristan_win, if we didn't change a bunch of stuff about the way we play the game (items, stages, etc) then we wouldn't have the competitive scene as it is today. Another rule is fine if it improves tournament play.

 

[ChampKing]

Still never going to happen. The game doesn't need it, it doesn't improve the game anymore than adding more attack improves it (landing lag is there for a reason) and unlocking all customs is still a pain and you need to do that on your own Wii U to practice it.

 

[Loki]

Me and my friends play with smooth lander and let me tell you it is a real deal. Not gamebreaking buf deffnly a noticeable and I dare say, welcomed change. Offensive game really gets a boost while still not really discouraging the defensive tools and maneuvers the game offers.

As for us, we have optimized it to the point that we have +3 str, +1 def and +7 spd. We havent felt a noticeable change in characters mechanics (damage, KB, etc) outside the obvious landing lag reduction. I am no Melee pro and I kind of disliked the idea of turning brawl into Melee with PM but I tell you, it feels gooooood...

Matches are really fluent. Most matches were with 3 stocks and they lasted between 5:30 and 3 minutes. When someone went offensive it was really intense because of their new safe options so neutral game also gained value with this. I´ll try to share our replays as soon as my friend uploads them.

Overall, more than ever, I emphazise we should give smooth landing a shot. It IS worth a damn.

 

[Revan_23]

Still never going to happen. The game doesn't need it, it doesn't improve the game anymore than adding more attack improves it (landing lag is there for a reason) and unlocking all customs is still a pain and you need to do that on your own Wii U to practice it.

You can actually beat all star mode with shulk in 6 minutes or less to make the smooth lander challenge visible on the challenge grid. I just used 2 hammers to get it instead of collecting every custom move. Saved a lot of time.

 

[T0MMY]

The vast majority of the community appears to have decided that Custom Moves should be completely legal, if only we could find some easy way to unlock them.
This obviously wouldn't be the case for say online tournaments (as you can't view your opponent's loadouts to see if they have custom equipment), but for in person there's no real reason not to let them be used (outside of unlocking them, but that's something that only matters for the next few months) and a bunch of reasons for them to be legal (more depth, many more viable characters, etc).

What is the data on the vast majority?
Also, majority should not decide rules. The vast majority of players wanted Items on back in the Melee days and there was quite a West Coast/East Coast debate over that. So you see why I am hesitant to simply just jump on the bandwagon here from a competitive perspective.
Additionally "more depth" was coincidentally also the argument for using Items (and was THE argument for including them in Brawl's official ruleset for Evo '09). Again, this sounds very suspect especially when there are some very real issues going on with them that go beyond not having systems that have them unlocked (or losing data for them on the systems).
So the one reason that remains is that it could make more characters viable, unfortunately it could mean making more characters not viable as well.

I'm not going to be opposed to having Customization "On", but I will remain skeptical and push for a side event to use them to see the impact of the meta game with Custom Moves (without bias about "balance" and "viability"). Competitive rules work themselves out, not pushed on the community - we don't want to repeat the past mistakes like the Brawl rulesets.

 

[ChampKing]

You can actually beat all star mode with shulk in 6 minutes or less to make the smooth lander challenge visible on the challenge grid. I just used 2 hammers to get it instead of collecting every custom move. Saved a lot of time.

So you can hammer it. Not bad. Still doesn't stand a chance at happening because it is no different then using equipment to add attack. It may subjectively make the game more fun for some but it isn't going to be an actual thing outside of casual play.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Already another thread for this. Please discuss it there.