Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[BlueFury]

Ledge trumps get a huge boost naturally, since most characters have difficulty recovering.

I highly recomend practicing your ledge trumps if you want to get consistent kills in SLHG, characters like Peach, Kirby, Pikachu, Capt. Falcon, Falco etc. (Not Fox, he falls too fast and it's dangerous lol)

Its funny, after playing SLHG for more than half a year now, it seems obvious that ledge trump kills (in SLHG) are a true successor to ledge-hogs from Melee. Ledge trumps are a significant tool in SLHG, and the oppurtunity for one comes up multiple times in a match. Learn your character's trump options and practice them, your game will improve a lot if you do.

I agree the fact that SLHG is very melee-esque in a lot of ways but still its own makes it so distinct. Every time I play I get pulled in but I guess your right its best people learn the mechanics and flow of SLHG themselves then that'll further pull them in and add to the allure of SLHG.

I was fooling around with Lucas the other day and I gotta say dude has crazy edge guarding options if you time their recovery and sweet spot his back air just at the edge it's nearly an automatic spike.

 

[SaturnFrost]

http://www.twitch.tv/metroidmaster Keith,Metroid and friends streaming slhg

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I'm gonna get on my friend to highlight the matches that had any of us non-casuals in it (me, him, and the 3DS guy). We had some good stuff in there.

EDIT: Also Falco is pretty cool. I played a bit of Falco for fun in vanilla Smash 4 so I knew some of the basics, but being able to land dair and follow up with practically anything was neat. I think in the two matches I used Falco I managed to follow up with dtilt, up smash, nair, fair, and uair, I only had to read the DI and adjust for different percents/whether I hit the sweetspot or not. Lasers are still far away from their former glory, but that ain't gonna stop me from trying to hit those disrespectful snipes.

My thoughts on Mario are a bit less flattering. His combo game is even more powerful than it was in vanilla, but he still has a heck of a time killing. He's a fun character, but I feel like I had to fish for kills a lot. I would've went for Doc, but I've actually been working on him as a potential secondary in vanilla Smash so I didn't want to disappoint myself TOO much next time I go to a vanilla tourney.

 

[Muro]

thanks for that KeithTheGeek .

In case anybody wants to check it ou here's the VOD http://www.twitch.tv/metroidmaster/v/20372763

 

[ZADD]

Iv switched mains to Peach, and I've been wrecking kids at my locals ever since.

Even though there are slight changes to certain moves, Peach is basically her Melee self in every sense.

-Turnips are WAY more effective with HG's limited mobility, also you can catch turnips quicker for more mixups.
-N-air doesnt hit as hard as in Melee (to kill early), but it's great for neutral and guarding the ledge.
-D-air combos so well now it's insane. A well-spaced D-air can start a 0-death chain on fast-fallers, pretty scary.
-U-smash does a lot more knockback/damage because of Moon Launcher, and it can basically replace her Melee D-smash.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I think I'm gonna stick with DK for the time being, as I've always had an affinity for the chunky guys and grab heavy characters. SLHG DK is like a dream come true for me. As far as a potential secondary I have no clue, I really dig Link and Dedede so maybe one of those...? Or the pocket Marth that everyone seems to have.

 

[nannerham]

So guys how about them sliding pivots?

It give characters some approach options and gives characters an amazing tomahawk game (especially DK)

 

[Deleted member]

Does online still work for this?

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Online was killed a few patches ago.

EDIT: Gonna edit my own post cause I don't want to double post, but I left my friend another reminder about the VOD. The only thing is, he's fairly busy most of the time (works 2 jobs) so he might not be able to find the time to do it. I'm trying to get the VOD downloaded myself just to have a back-up in case he doesn't get around to making highlights.

EDIT: And as I say that he highlighted the matches. Unfortunately it's still all in one big chunk, but at least the vod won't be auto-deleted by twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/metroidmaster/v/21447151

 

[Muro]

EDIT: And as I say that he highlighted the matches. Unfortunately it's still all in one big chunk, but at least the vod won't be auto-deleted by twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/metroidmaster/v/21447151

Thanks a ton man. Still.. 3 hours of matches, yikes!

 

[KeithTheGeek]

It's 3 hours of matches, but only about half of them are worth watching. The first half is pretty casual, we don't get any good singles or doubles until later on in the vod.

I'm in the process of downloading it in chunks, will check with him to see if it's okay to reupload them to youtube or maybe edit some of the highlights together.

 

[SirMouse]

How did I go all this time without once looking at this thread?

I took a look at it for the first time yesterday and ended up telling my one friend (a Smash fan and player) about it/linking him the thread.

Later on that night he equipped all his characters with the badges recommended in the OP and tried the mode for a little while with his brother (who doesn't particularly like Smash 4 but usually plays whenever the two of us are).

Suffice it to say, he loved it (said it was the most fun he's had playing), and even his brother was having fun.

Can't wait to try the mode myself, and thanks for all the hard work, guys!

 

[cerealkiller]

Good to know!
That's why everyone should be forced to try the mode at least once.

However, with no online... the mode is dead for me.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Going to hang out with my buddy again. I'll see if I can get him to stream more SLHG when I get there. It'll be at twitch.tv/metroidmaster as usual, I'm gonna try to mess with some different characters this time.

 

[SirMouse]

As a followup to my initial post, I just wanted to let you guys know that I tried the mode with those two friends today. My thoughts?

It was fun. We played for 7 hours straight (our average Smash sessions last 1-2 hours).

It really does feel like a different game entirely at times. Going offstage feels MUCH riskier, but I like that. You can't be nearly as reckless offstage as you can in vanilla Smash 4, which applies to this mode in general, I suppose.

But man oh man, the combos. We landed quite a few that aren't even possible in vanilla, some of which resulted in a lot of hype (my one friend managed to land a 0-40% string as Falco on his brother's Falcon that resulted in a gimp KO...too bad Falco can't do anything close to that in vanilla).

Of course, I don't like some characters I use as much in this mode (Robin's recovery is awful and her options are more limited offstage and on the ledge because of that), and playing on an Omega stage as ZSS feels like more of a struggle due to the decreased vertical knockback, but those exceptions are more than made up for by the characters that feel better than before (Marth/Lucina feel MUCH better overall, and even Zelda feels improved).

Overall, I'm already preferring this mode over vanilla for the most part. It's just a shame it can't be played online.

(On a side note, playing this is totally gonna screw up my play in vanilla Smash, haha.)

 

[KeithTheGeek]

So did we ever discuss Miis/come to a consensus on them?

My thoughts are...I think MLG's rules on Miis work best for SLHG. While in vanilla, there are ways the MLG rules can be improved (3DSes can be used to solve logistical issues regarding Miis that aren't default height/weight), in SLHG because you need to have the same stats that's not really option.

So, default size, but any mii special. I say this because the Miis come with them by default and it leads to some really interesting gameplay. Mii Brawler, for example, is arguably a linear and one-dimensional character in vanilla with his optimal set, but in SLHG you can create frame traps and your combo game grows beyond dthrow -> helicopter kick. Additionally, the heavy gravity balances out helicopter kick, trading off vertical recovery for sheer power. It's really engaging gameplay-wise, and unlike most custom moves are actually intentionally balanced.

I've yet to take a look at sword fighter or gunner, but I imagine they see similar benefits to brawler from having all specials + SLHG.

Anyways, got some good footage I think that sort of shows what I'm talking about. I've only used SLHG Mii Brawler today (2122 set) but he's a new favorite of mine. I can just play so aggressively when using him. Once again, it's on my friend's twitch but I plan on asking him sometime this weekend if I could reupload some of the gameplay to youtube for archival purposes.

 

[SaturnFrost]

im fine with using mii's. Just watched the previous stream you guys had. All I have to say is that like everything else we should set standards for them. For starters their size. should we go largest size as possible? Also which specials would be used as a standard? For gunner i like 1111, and for brawler and swordsmen i like 2222.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Best standard for size is default size. For a large amount of set-ups, it really isn't feasible to transfer and then build multiple Miis of multiple sizes. Where vanilla has the advantage here is that, since you don't use equipment anyways, you can just carry around a 3DS with your Mii(s) on it to transfer. We can't do that in SLHG because we need the specific equipment.

The other problem with size is that, in vanilla tiny Brawler is proven to be very powerful for little to no trade-off, while default size has a noticeably worse combo game. SLHG corrects default size Brawler, and while I haven't tested tiny Brawler I imagine he's pretty ridiculous. Big Brawler is pretty useless either way and not really worth talking about.

Every save file in Smash has a batch of system default Miis that are, I believe, medium size. You would use one of those Miis attached with the right equipment. Personally speaking, I think Mii Fighters should either have access to all of their specials (the time to actually make a new fighter is neglible) or have an "optimal" set to work with.

I haven't fiddled around with the Mii specials too much, particularly not in SLHG, but it's something I'm willing to take a look at to weigh the pros and cons of the specials.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Don't really want to double post but I got the OK to make a highlight reel of our matches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEoWsmZ4ZtA

 

[Hyper_Kirby]

Mii Gunner is the new falco. Lmao
But you can SH fast fall his/her forward air for pressure.

 

[Hyper_Kirby]

Gud Shizz btw, Keith

 

[SaturnFrost]

Best standard for size is default size. For a large amount of set-ups, it really isn't feasible to transfer and then build multiple Miis of multiple sizes. Where vanilla has the advantage here is that, since you don't use equipment anyways, you can just carry around a 3DS with your Mii(s) on it to transfer. We can't do that in SLHG because we need the specific equipment.

The other problem with size is that, in vanilla tiny Brawler is proven to be very powerful for little to no trade-off, while default size has a noticeably worse combo game. SLHG corrects default size Brawler, and while I haven't tested tiny Brawler I imagine he's pretty ridiculous. Big Brawler is pretty useless either way and not really worth talking about.

Every save file in Smash has a batch of system default Miis that are, I believe, medium size. You would use one of those Miis attached with the right equipment. Personally speaking, I think Mii Fighters should either have access to all of their specials (the time to actually make a new fighter is neglible) or have an "optimal" set to work with.

I haven't fiddled around with the Mii specials too much, particularly not in SLHG, but it's something I'm willing to take a look at to weigh the pros and cons of the specials.

ahh ok.. yes i see that there are 6 default miis packed into the game. 6 skins for each. Also finding an optimal build for each seems good to me.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Anyone here have experience with ZSS by the way? I gave her a shot when playing the other day and she just feels...awkward. It kinda feels like the heavy gravity makes people fall out of her combos, so you have to play a heavy zoning game and go for reads to get the kill. Her aerials are generally super-safe though, and she has a strong recovery, but she seems hard to use effectively. Maybe I was just playing her wrong though.

 

[Muro]

I played her in the beginning. I didn't like her very much because I thought hitting grounded opponents with aerials was kinda hard. Also felt that ppl fall out of her combos/she jumps too high. Maybe I'll revisit her now that I'm getting kind of bored with my regular characters.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Don't really want to double post but I got the OK to make a highlight reel of our matches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEoWsmZ4ZtA

I MISS SLHG ONLINE DAMNIT.

Good vid too man. Seemed like a lot of fun and some of those comboes were sick.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Thanks man. I tried to get a good mix of the combos the mode allows for, and just some really good plays. A personal favorite of mine was the dthrow trap I did with Mii Brawler at 2:15 in the video. (Even if that dair wasn't really the best follow up to the throw lol)

SLHG really encompasses the best of both worlds when it comes to Smash, and I think it's my preferred way to play. Now I just need to figure out how to fix that little problem of there being no tournaments for it...

 

[ZADD]

Im probly gonna do a small tournament next week for SLHG locally.

Idk if Ill record/commentate all the matches, probly just the top 8. (some players are too scrubby)

Rules are as follows:

3 stock, 6-minute.
Best of 3, GF Best of 5
2 bans

Legal Starts:
Final Destination
Battlefield
Dreamland 64
Town and City
Smashville

Counter-picks:
Halberd
Lylat Cruise

Should be fun! Idk if anything huge will come of it, but atleast SLHG will get some publicity. I won't be participating due to my knowledge of SLHG match-ups, and the need to have a TO. Hopefully, if it goes well I can expand to other areas of my region.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Just IMO, but 6 minutes is a bit too short for 3 stocks. Definitely want to see SLHG grow though.

 

[ZADD]

Really? the pace we play at 8 minutes would be for 4-stock. Even campy players die quick.

 

[cerealkiller]

Since 8 mins is about right for 3-stock Vanilla smash, I think maybe 6 minutes is actually OK for SLHG.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Well, I guess I usually just run with 4-stock when playing this.

In my mind I was thinking about how other Smash games run their stock/time count and something about seeing the 3 stock/6 minute seemed wrong to me. I guess the only question I have is, what is the benefit of using 3 stock over 4 stock?

 

[ZADD]

IMO, 3-stock is limited enough to force players to play their best and not slack off for a stock or two (similar to For Glory). 4-stock tends to drag on a bit longer than the match-up needs to.

4-stock is fine for friendlies, but to keep a good pace I think 3-stock (6 min) is just right for SLHG.

 

[Muro]

I prefer 3 stocks 8 min, but 3 stocks 6 min should be fine too. 4 stocks takes too long imo. GL with the tournament ZADD , I hope you get a good turnout.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

I would say 3 stock 7 minutes is the best of both worlds but thats just me. Good luck with your tournament man!

 

[BlueFury]

Nice the see SLHG growing even if it's a little good luck with the tournament Zadd
& KeithTheGeek props man keep it up

Man I wish I knew about this way back would of been nice to play y'all.

 

[ZADD]

Im not too worried about turnout (atleast 20), I'm more concerned with the level of play.

If I entered i'd win in a landslide, so I'm curious to see how the other guys will go try-hard knowing i'm not there and they can win. This tournament is honestly to pull in more local talent. I dont care if the footage gets recognition or whatever.

I just WANT to play SLHG instead of vanilla, and Iv met quite a few people who feel the same, and have wanted a tournament.

CO smash has responded positively to SLHG and a few have asked for a tournament, so who knows where this'll go.

 

[nannerham]

ZADD Does CO smash stream or have a youtube channel, I would love too see that footage.
To avoid double posting here's some luigi stuff

honestly the dthrow nerf isn't even a big deal here, you have to be at really high percents to not get a follow up. The sweet thing here is that the sweetspot for dair's hitbox was increased a decent amount so its easier to get the spike and it link into combos especially from a late nair and dthrow, it also buffs his offstage game i love to throw out a dair and if they airdodge its recovers quick enough to throw out another move so you either spike them or put them in a worse position. I couldn't show it here but thanks to the shield changes sweet spot nair is disgusting and its super hard to punish, this patch honestly helped luigi more than it hurt him. (At least in slhg's case)

 

[ZADD]

ZADD Does CO smash stream or have a youtube channel, I would love too see that footage.
To avoid double posting here's some luigi stuff

They have multiple big streams, but ill most likely just record the matches and commentary and post them to my youtube channel. (Zaddthemadd)

 

[Hyper_Kirby]

Anyone here have experience with ZSS by the way? I gave her a shot when playing the other day and she just feels...awkward. It kinda feels like the heavy gravity makes people fall out of her combos, so you have to play a heavy zoning game and go for reads to get the kill. Her aerials are generally super-safe though, and she has a strong recovery, but she seems hard to use effectively. Maybe I was just playing her wrong though.

It took me a while to understand ZSS but now I play her similar to vanilla. Nair combo well into other nairs and into down b. up air into up b is still easy. and down throw combos into to up and with bad di, down b.

 

[SaturnFrost]

Im probly gonna do a small tournament next week for SLHG locally.

Idk if Ill record/commentate all the matches, probly just the top 8. (some players are too scrubby)

Rules are as follows:

3 stock, 6-minute.
Best of 3, GF Best of 5
2 bans

Legal Starts:
Final Destination
Battlefield
Dreamland 64
Town and City
Smashville

Counter-picks:
Halberd
Lylat Cruise

Should be fun! Idk if anything huge will come of it, but atleast SLHG will get some publicity. I won't be participating due to my knowledge of SLHG match-ups, and the need to have a TO. Hopefully, if it goes well I can expand to other areas of my region.

good news... cant wait to watch this ^_^
Edit: So what day is this happening?