Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pacack]

There's a chance maybe. It's really hard to say.

I do expect like 5 original newcomers to be shown off. Sakurai went out of his way to make a new Smash reveal intro different from the one Smash 4 had so there has to be like 5 more at least. Echo fighters wouldn't warrant those kinds of trailers.

Honestly, when he says not to expect "too many" I think he's talking relatively. Looking at how many newcomers we've gotten each game:

Smash 64: 12 (10 Unique, 1 Clone, 1 Semi-Clone)
Melee: 14 (8 Unique, 6 Clones)
Brawl: 18 (15 Unique, 1 Clone, 1 Semi-Clone, 1 Wolf)
SSB4 (Base): 17 (12 Unique, 2 Clones + 1 Returning Clone, 3 Miis)
SSB4 (DLC): (4 Unique + 1 Returning, 2 Returning Semi-Clones)

So, on average we've had about 11 unique newcomers and some odd amount of characters with reused content (clones, semi-clones, Miis, unique characters with some reused content.)

I think what he's saying is that we should expect something less like Brawl or Smash 4 and more like Melee or Smash 64. Even then, that's an average of 13 characters, or 9 unique characters. I think 5 is too low an estimate.

tl;dr There's a big difference between expecting 5 characters, expecting 15 characters, and expecting 10 characters.

 

[BluePikmin11]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76514442

oh snap! waddle dee might be in!!!

NantenJex recently DMed memoryman3 on the matter and memory said Daisy, Waluigi and Boo amiibo data was all bugged in Wooly World. Apparently, he said every amiibo is listed as having multiple, but a glitch caused this to be missed on Daisy, Waluigi and Boo. Daisy was later updated in a patch to work with multiple amiibo but not the other two, which is odd. It is more of a lucky coincidence than pointing to Dee, as of now. So the amiibo theory is bogus.

 

[Slavic]

I mean, Waluigi winning would be a forgone conclusion.

Get ready for the uprising of Nintendog fans

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm sorry but I think you'll definitely be dissapointed with expecting that many unique newcomers in the base roster, I just don't see it happening at all.

The possibility of having 75 fighters in the base roster is there, especially in the case of All-Star mode. Anything more, and you're probably putting your predictions too high for the base roster total.

 

[Curious Villager]

Here's something I find pretty interesting, how long until someone finds a way to make Smash Switch mods? I'm not sure how you would do it or if it could be done, but I'm sure someone would find a way somehow.

Considering people are already able to rip models from games like Mario Odyssey, my guess is, probably not that long for at least things like Pallet Swaps and all.

Although considering Nintendo apparently upped their security, you might want to be careful not to get yourself banned from online (Unless you don't care about that.)

 

[Opossum]

Get ready for the uprising of Nintendog fans

"Color TV Game 15 Serves the Competition!"

 

[Zeox]

The possibility of having 75 fighters in the base roster is there, especially in the case of All-Star mode. Anything more, and you're probably putting your predictions too high for the base roster total.

Well, not expecting cuts and getting every veteran ever is also putting your predictions too high.
Not saying is going to happen, but with Sakurai expect the unexpected.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

She's just irresistible.

I'm enjoying it for sure. Dang it's adorable.

 

[Pacack]

We’ve always gotten characters like that, so I would guess we’d get one this time around. However, Takamaru seemed the most likely going into this game and apparently he’s been seen as an assist already. Sukapon’s an assist now which rules him out. Honestly, the best shot I think now is what others have suggested and go back to cut content from other games and give us a character like Mach Rider or Bubbles. I’m not sure who any retro/tech front runners are, so it’s anyone by my guess.

Personally, I'm not.

The obvious choice was Takamaru. Not only was he a retro character, but he was one Sakurai personally wanted, and one who seemed to have the barriers to his ascension cleared. He had gained prominence in the West due to his inclusion as a support trophy. And he got a new and unique (ie: not based on his AT assets) Mii costume as an indicator that he was still being thought of.

Then he returned as an AT. And so did Sukapon, another possible inclusion.

I'm thinking that a lot of the "standard" inclusions that we would get in a larger newcomer roster may wind up falling by the wayside. Including: The obligatory Pokémon rep, the obligatory Fire Emblem rep, the obligatory retro character, and the obligatory WTF character.

I think we'll see a lot of ballot choices and fan favorites instead.

I do want to note that, while there's every reason to suspect we might not get a retro/WTF character, that lack of an obvious choice isn't a valid reason to assume we're not getting one. Takamaru may have been the most obvious choice, but that may have been exactly why he was passed up.

We still have Excite Biker, Lip, Mach Rider, Prince of Sable, Stanley the Bugman, and Donkey Kong Jr. They may be more niche choices, but they're definitely possible.

 

[Zippo]

I think it's easy to see why they aren't revealing many new stages just yet. As crazy as it sounds, they've barely scratched the surface. We've got months and months of reveals to go. We still don't know anything about other modes and whatnot, including single player. I even could see them revealing new things at EVO now.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Well, not expecting cuts and getting every veteran ever is also putting your predictions too high.
Not saying is going to happen, but with Sakurai expect the unexpected.

Honestly, i expect most other newcomers will be DLC.

 

[Curious Villager]

I do want to note that, while there's every reason to suspect we might not get a retro/WTF character, that lack of an obvious choice isn't a valid reason to assume we're not getting one. Takamaru may have been the most obvious choice, but that may have been exactly why he was passed up.

We still have Excite Biker, Lip, Mach Rider, Prince of Sable, Stanley the Bugman, and Donkey Kong Jr. They may be more niche choices, but they're definitely possible.

Speaking of Lip, has the Lip's Stick item been spotted yet? I know there are some screenshots with characters with the flower effect on, but I haven't seen the actual item itself yet.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I'm kind of surprised that, as far as I've seen, no one's brought up Cloud's trailer. People keep bring that Kirby thing back up even though it's clearly just ICs, but nothing on a similar trick used to make it look like Cloud was casting lightning.

 

[Skyblade12]

I do want to note that, while there's every reason to suspect we might not get a retro/WTF character, that lack of an obvious choice isn't a valid reason to assume we're not getting one. Takamaru may have been the most obvious choice, but that may have been exactly why he was passed up.

We still have Excite Biker, Lip, Mach Rider, Prince of Sable, Stanley the Bugman, and Donkey Kong Jr. They may be more niche choices, but they're definitely possible.

True. And it's not just that. It's that, combined with getting a smaller roster, and the intense focus this game has on fan requests. Remember, the entire reason we're getting all the veterans back is because "we believe that's what fans wanted". The veterans undoubtedly scored VERY high in the ballot, they were usually all top 10 in Japan polls, at least.

 

[Zeox]

I hope one of the new stages is a Bowser castle stage.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm kind of surprised that, as far as I've seen, no one's brought up Cloud's trailer. People keep bring that Kirby thing back up even though it's clearly just ICs, but nothing on a similar trick used to make it look like Cloud was casting lightning.

I think that was just Pikachu or Pichu being down below using thunder as Cloud was using one of his taunts..

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Well, not expecting cuts and getting every veteran ever is also putting your predictions too high.
Not saying is going to happen, but with Sakurai expect the unexpected.

I guess the reveal of every veteran does bring in some hope for a couple newcomers. I'm not expecting the newcomer amount to be as large as in Smash 3DS / Wii U, but at least Ridley's reveal does give us hope that King K. Rool might finally make his comeback at some point.

 

[Zeox]

I guess the reveal of every veteran does bring in some hope for a couple newcomers. I'm not expecting the newcomer amount to be as large as in Smash 3DS / Wii U, but at least Ridley's reveal does give us hope that King K. Rool might finally make his comeback at some point.

Maybe thanks to Sakurai pushing K. Rool in smash we can have him as the main villain in a future new DKC game.
A man can dream...

 

[Pacack]

I'm sorry but I think you'll definitely be dissapointed with expecting that many unique newcomers in the base roster, I just don't see it happening at all.

I'm sorry if this comes across as combative, but what evidence to you have to support the idea that we'll get significantly fewer unique newcomers than we ever have? Even Melee had 8 unique newcomers despite its short development cycle.

I expect a minimum of 7-8 unique characters, which is the lowest amount we'd have ever gotten for a Smash game and which is literally half of the unique newcomers we had in Brawl. It's not crazy to say we'll get 10-12 characters, even.

Speaking of Lip, has the Lip's Stick item been spotted yet? I know there are some screenshots with characters with the flower effect on, but I haven't seen the actual item itself yet.

That's an interesting question. Maybe the Graveyard might know?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I do want to note that, while there's every reason to suspect we might not get a retro/WTF character, that lack of an obvious choice isn't a valid reason to assume we're not getting one. Takamaru may have been the most obvious choice, but that may have been exactly why he was passed up.

We still have Excite Biker, Lip, Mach Rider, Prince of Sable, Stanley the Bugman, and Donkey Kong Jr. They may be more niche choices, but they're definitely possible.

Another possibility, the most voted retro choice on the ballot was not Takamaru, but someone else. Pit and Little Mac got with their large number of requests. It could have been Excitebiker, Sable, Mach Rider that was more popular.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Now's a good time to hop into Day three of E3, They just announced they're looking at Items next.

 

[ErenJager]

Treehouse is about to show off new items not yet shown in Smash Ultimate...

 

[Opossum]

Not only items, but new ones. Exciting stuff.

 

[Ura]

Honestly, when he says not to expect "too many" I think he's talking relatively. Looking at how many newcomers we've gotten each game:

Smash 64: 12 (10 Unique, 1 Clone, 1 Semi-Clone)
Melee: 14 (8 Unique, 6 Clones)
Brawl: 18 (15 Unique, 1 Clone, 1 Semi-Clone, 1 Wolf)
SSB4 (Base): 17 (12 Unique, 2 Clones + 1 Returning Clone, 3 Miis)
SSB4 (DLC): (4 Unique + 1 Returning, 2 Returning Semi-Clones)

So, on average we've had about 11 unique newcomers and some odd amount of characters with reused content (clones, semi-clones, Miis, unique characters with some reused content.)

I think what he's saying is that we should expect something less like Brawl or Smash 4 and more like Melee or Smash 64. Even then, that's an average of 13 characters, or 9 unique characters. I think 5 is too low an estimate.

tl;dr There's a big difference between expecting 5 characters, expecting 15 characters, and expecting 10 characters.

5 may be too small but I want to play it safe with this round of speculation. Maybe 6 if things work out better but outside of Echo fighters i'm not going any farther than that. I believe this will be the game with the least amount of newcomers ever, even smaller than Melee's.

Echo Fighters I imagine there will be like 7-10 to compensate for the lack of newcomers. More like Sakurai's way of appealing to those who may have wanted a character that's not going to be an original character this time around.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm still sticking to my prediction of 2-3 characters, maybe 4-5 if there's more Echo Fighters.

I'm just hoping there's more alt-costumes in the final build. I really want Ms. Pac-Man for Pac-Man. Although, I wouldn't say no to her being an Echo Fighter either.

 

[Curious Villager]

Now's a good time to hop into Day three of E3, They just announced they're looking at Items next.

Treehouse is about to show off new items not yet shown in Smash Ultimate...

Welp, talk about good timing, guess I'll check if Lip's Stick shows up there.

 

[Deleted member]

As someone who genuinely loves Pichu, I hope he's actually viable this time and not just a joke. I'll still play him either way, but a viable Pichu would be nice.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

This game has a Banana Gun 10/10

 

[Nani?]

New item on treehouse. It's a bannana gun. Just what it sounds like. It shoots a bannana that explodes, then the gun turns into a normal bannana peel.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

I'm sorry if this comes across as combative, but what evidence to you have to support the idea that we'll get significantly fewer unique newcomers than we ever have? Even Melee had 8 unique newcomers despite its short development cycle.

I expect a minimum of 7-8 unique characters, which is the lowest amount we'd have ever gotten for a Smash game and which is literally half of the unique newcomers we had in Brawl. It's not crazy to say we'll get 10-12 characters, even.

That's an interesting question. Maybe the Graveyard might know?

I'm just saying to not get expectations high. I'm just thinking of how Sakurai will show off that many newcomers until release. The main source of revealing newcomers is directs, which I think we could get MAX three before release. Ad in surprise announcements and 5 seems like the definite max before release tbh.

 

[Ura]

I'm just saying to not get expectations high. I'm just thinking of how Sakurai will show off that many newcomers until release. The main source of revealing newcomers is directs, which I think we could get MAX three before release. Ad in surprise announcements and 5 seems like the definite max before release tbh.

3 is also a bit too pessimistic lol. Even as someone who thinks there's a good chance of having like 5 more newcomers barring Echo's.

Everyone seems to have their idea of what's "too little" for newcomers lol.

 

[Deleted member]

I barely play Smash with items anymore, but to be honest, that might change with this one. The items all look super fun this time around, which is not something I could say about Wii U/3DS.

Also, Banana Gun. I didn't know I needed that in my life, but I now know that I do. This game is truly blessed.

I'm gonna make so many "Do you like, MMMM...bananas?" jokes with this...

 

[MBRedboy31]

I like how the game slows down just before the Bomber goes off, rather than during the explosion; it gives you an opportunity to realize exactly how you messed up.

IIRC, the Motion-Sensor-Bomb does a similar thing, causing the game to slow down when someone gets into its range but just before it explodes.

 

[Blargg888]

Agree with 100% of what you said. I can definitely see this being to contemporary Smash and seeing a reworked reboot sometime in the future.



Yeah, I haven’t played the game yet so on the surface, it looks like an enhanced Smash 4 which I imagine a lot of people who are watching it were thinking too. I’ve seen some people throw away Sm4.5h around. Which is stupid but it’s worth mentioning.



Who is they? I think the series will continue in some form in the future but it could potentially be Sakurai’s last. Everything I saw in that trailer was “let’s improve on why we learned in the past smash games and celebrate the history of Dmash at the same time.” To me, that’s a signal that perhaps they reached a point where they may have to rework the series in the future. Like Manly said, a reboot with a slashed roster.

Also, I remember hearing that in the Directbbut the actual number is unknown. Could be one more, could be six. The newcomer additions are a bit more unsettling with more riding on them than ever before.

"They" being Treehouse. It was said at some point during the first day.

 

[papagenos]

NantenJex recently DMed memoryman3 on the matter and memory said Daisy, Waluigi and Boo amiibo data was all bugged in Wooly World. Apparently, he said every amiibo is listed as having multiple, but a glitch caused this to be missed on Daisy, Waluigi and Boo. Daisy was later updated in a patch to work with multiple amiibo but not the other two, which is odd. It is more of a lucky coincidence than pointing to Dee, as of now. So the amiibo theory is bogus.

ah ok then, still think hes super likely anyway but that shoots down being nearly confirmed.

 

[Pacack]

Another possibility, the most voted retro choice on the ballot was not Takamaru, but someone else. Pit and Little Mac got with their large number of requests. It could have been Excitebiker, Sable, Mach Rider that was more popular.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Excite Biker got more votes than Takamaru.

5 may be too small but I want to play it safe with this round of speculation. Maybe 6 if things work out better but outside of Echo fighters i'm not going any farther than that. I believe this will be the game with the least amount of newcomers ever, even smaller than Melee's.

Echo Fighters I imagine there will be like 7-10 to compensate for the lack of newcomers. More like Sakurai's way of appealing to those who may have wanted a character that's not going to be an original character this time around.

I'm still sticking to my prediction of 2-3 characters, maybe 4-5 if there's more Echo Fighters.

I'm just hoping there's more alt-costumes in the final build. I really want Ms. Pac-Man for Pac-Man. Although, I wouldn't say no to her being an Echo Fighter either.

I'm just saying to not get expectations high. I'm just thinking of how Sakurai will show off that many newcomers until release. The main source of revealing newcomers is directs, which I think we could get MAX three before release. Ad in surprise announcements and 5 seems like the definite max before release tbh.

There's a difference between being safe and being unrealistic. Sakurai merely said not to get expectations too high. As in, don't expect us to get as many characters for this game as last.

What has been said that makes it reasonable to conclude we're getting half of the amount we got in Melee, the most rushed game in the history of Smash Bros. and the one with the least newcomers?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

5 may be too small but I want to play it safe with this round of speculation. Maybe 6 if things work out better but outside of Echo fighters i'm not going any farther than that. I believe this will be the game with the least amount of newcomers ever, even smaller than Melee's.

Echo Fighters I imagine there will be like 7-10 to compensate for the lack of newcomers. More like Sakurai's way of appealing to those who may have wanted a character that's not going to be an original character this time around.

7-10 echo fighters is WAY too high imo, they're still effectively clones and I'd rather not have 10 extra slots on the roster bloating the whole thing. I think 5 new ones should be the max.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I don't even know how many newcomer's we're getting at this point

 

[RIku434]

So in the Nintendo Treehouse I just noticed Pac's down throw animation lasts shorter, doing 2 hits instead of 3

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Than again, Sakurai may surprise us