Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Welp, now that Tree House Day 1 is over, I have time to tackle all the things I liked and disliked about Smash Ultimate's reveal.

Let's get the negative out of the way first, which thankfully, isn't a very long list:

Spoiler: Personal Negatives/Disappointments

1. Waluigi not being in stung. I've liked Waluigi since I was a little kid, and seeing him in Smash has always been a dream of mine. Maybe someday...
2. Like Waluigi, Bomberman cut deep. He was in my top 5, and seeing them both be deconfirmed back to back hurt. D:
3. WHY IS GREAT CAVE OFFENSIVE BACK NOOOOOOO.
4. Lucina being an Echo Character is kinda disappointing.
5. I have mixed feelings on Daisy for many reasons. I'm sure I'll get over it come launch, but for now, I'm not really happy about her bein' there. Might end up being the new Dark Pit for me, TBH. :/

And now, for the good...:

Spoiler: Personal Favorites/Things I Thought were Cool

1. The artstyle in this game is insane! It pretty much fixes all of my complaints with Wii U. It all looks so crisp and polished!
2. All of the Zelda characters look amazing! Link's BotW look is amazing, Zelda is super spunky and cute, and Ganondorf is looking like a boss.
3. Going back to Ganon, holy cow! They're actually retooling him somewhat, which is 100% what I wanted! NICE!
4. While he's not a NEW new character, I welcome YL back with open arms, as Majora's Mask is still best Zelda for me and I pretty much just wanted A new Zelda character, even if it's an old one lol.
5. Finally better Metroid representation with stinkin' RIDLEY. I am more than happy to eat crow on this one, ha ha.
6. The concept of grouping clone characters together under the tag "Echo Fighter" really appeals to me for some reason. I think it'll help me set expectations for whomever they reveal with that tag, which is nice.
7. A bunch of old stages returning and being remastered with HD textures. PLEASE HAVE FOURSIDE. PLEEEEEEEAAAAAASE!
8. No cuts and everyone ever is back. That's amazing.
9. Characters having more varied expressions and just in general looking a lot more charming and animated. Wii U always felt really stiff to me.
10. Touching back on 9, Mario actually smiling and looking more determined than angry/edgey at everything makes me so happy. I hated always angry Mario in Brawl and Wii U/3DS, lol.
11. Holy cow do the new renders look nice. Luigi's especially; I never liked the weird planking thing.
12. Snake? Snake!? SNAAAAAAAKE!!!
13. Inklings look amazing, their moveset is pretty much how I imagined it'd be with a few surprising mechanics. Plus, there's a school uniform alt!
14. The focus on refining the old instead of just cramming in a bunch of new. This is something I've wanted Smash to do for a while now.
15. Doctor Mario is even less of a clone and more his own thing now, HECK YEAH.
16. From the tracks they've released, they really stepped up their game with the music. Can't wait to hear more of it!
17. UI and HUD look amazing. I love the minimalist vector art for the stock icons! So much more charming than using JPEGed character faces.
18. This Wario is even zanier than Wii U's, which I didn't even think was possible.
19. All the changes to physics look sick, and I'm a huge fan of the changes to rolls and air dodging.
20. Mario's alt costumes are amazing and will probably make me main him again. And seeing as how Mario Odyssey is my favorite video game, I love the nod to cappy with the taunt.
21. THEY ACKNOWLEDGED KUMATORA.
22. Dedede's coat is fuzzy now. 10/10 game of the year.

That's all I got. As I stated in my last post, this game looks amazing and is doing 90% of the things I've always wanted them to do, so I am completely on board and will probably skip physical so I can pre-load this sucker and play it at midnight launch, lol.

 

[Koopaul]

....the images aren't loading, but you get the idea.

Funky's had the surfboard since his debut.
His whole persona is that of a SURFER (aside from the military phase he had for DK64).

Sure I understand that. But would it be as wierd to see Funky not use his surf board as it would be to not see Dixie use her hair? That's the point I'm making. I'm sure more people would raise their eyebrow not seeing Dixie use her signature ponytail twirl than Funky not using the surfboard in his moveset.

 

[UltimateWario]

Welp, now that Tree House Day 1 is over, I have time to tackle all the things I liked and disliked about Smash Ultimate's reveal.

Let's get the negative out of the way first, which thankfully, isn't a very long list:

Spoiler: Personal Negatives/Disappointments

1. Waluigi not being in stung. I've liked Waluigi since I was a little kid, and seeing him in Smash has always been a dream of mine. Maybe someday...
2. Like Waluigi, Bomberman cut deep. He was in my top 5, and seeing them both be deconfirmed back to back hurt. D:
3. WHY IS GREAT CAVE OFFENSIVE BACK NOOOOOOO.
4. Lucina being an Echo Character is kinda disappointing.
5. I have mixed feelings on Daisy for many reasons. I'm sure I'll get over it come launch, but for now, I'm not really happy about her bein' there. Might end up being the new Dark Pit for me, TBH. :/

And now, for the good...:

Spoiler: Personal Favorites/Things I Thought were Cool

1. The artstyle in this game is insane! It pretty much fixes all of my complaints with Wii U. It all looks so crisp and polished!
2. All of the Zelda characters look amazing! Link's BotW look is amazing, Zelda is super spunky and cute, and Ganondorf is looking like a boss.
3. Going back to Ganon, holy cow! They're actually retooling him somewhat, which is 100% what I wanted! NICE!
4. While he's not a NEW new character, I welcome YL back with open arms, as Majora's Mask is still best Zelda for me and I pretty much just wanted A new Zelda character, even if it's an old one lol.
5. Finally better Metroid representation with stinkin' RIDLEY. I am more than happy to eat crow on this one, ha ha.
6. The concept of grouping clone characters together under the tag "Echo Fighter" really appeals to me for some reason. I think it'll help me set expectations for whomever they reveal with that tag, which is nice.
7. A bunch of old stages returning and being remastered with HD textures. PLEASE HAVE FOURSIDE. PLEEEEEEEAAAAAASE!
8. No cuts and everyone ever is back. That's amazing.
9. Characters having more varied expressions and just in general looking a lot more charming and animated. Wii U always felt really stiff to me.
10. Touching back on 9, Mario actually smiling and looking more determined than angry/edgey at everything makes me so happy. I hated always angry Mario in Brawl and Wii U/3DS, lol.
11. Holy cow do the new renders look nice. Luigi's especially; I never liked the weird planking thing.
12. Snake? Snake!? SNAAAAAAAKE!!!
13. Inklings look amazing, their moveset is pretty much how I imagined it'd be with a few surprising mechanics. Plus, there's a school uniform alt!
14. The focus on refining the old instead of just cramming in a bunch of new. This is something I've wanted Smash to do for a while now.
15. Doctor Mario is even less of a clone and more his own thing now, HECK YEAH.
16. From the tracks they've released, they really stepped up their game with the music. Can't wait to hear more of it!
17. UI and HUD look amazing. I love the minimalist vector art for the stock icons! So much more charming than using JPEGed character faces.
18. This Wario is even zanier than Wii U's, which I didn't even think was possible.
19. All the changes to physics look sick, and I'm a huge fan of the changes to rolls and air dodging.
20. Mario's alt costumes are amazing and will probably make me main him again. And seeing as how Mario Odyssey is my favorite video game, I love the nod to cappy with the taunt.
21. THEY ACKNOWLEDGED KUMATORA.
22. Dedede's coat is fuzzy now. 10/10 game of the year.

That's all I got. As I stated in my last post, this game looks amazing and is doing 90% of the things I've always wanted them to do, so I am completely on board and will probably skip physical so I can pre-load this sucker and play it at midnight launch, lol.

Unless it was a different, similar stage from Smash 4, I'm pretty sure we saw Fourside with all the Koopalings on it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ganon has allegedly been... sort of decloned?
He's got new smash attacks for sure (which are direct upgrades of his older ones tbh), and allegedly one of his aerials is different.
Seeking more info.

His Final Smash is still the same, except we get Ganon's Ocarina of Time incarnation, instead of Beast Ganon.

 

[Lyndis_]

I have only one question.

We gettin' that RidleyBoards 2: Electric Boogaloo or not???

 

[Lukingordex]

A lot of people seem to be on the bandwagon. However, I heavily doubt Simon's chances, as he could meet the same fate as Bomberman.

Didn't the things that happened at this E3 basically confirmed Vergeban's leak which means Simon is in? Or am i missing something?

 

[Octavium]

I'm happy for the mechanical changes in the gameplay, but I really wish that wavedashing would return.
There's something refreshing about being able to very carefully control your character's position, this is what these types of games are about, to *control* your favourite nintendo characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Introduced was the wrong word, I meant it was the first time he actually used it for anything (I forgot he had it in sluggers tbh) but my point still stands that having Funky with DK's moveset is still fine and it'd still work for him, the board could still be used in other animations.

"The first time he actually used it for anything" is a moot point either way.
Outside of literally only three games where Dixie is playable (not including ports/remakes of the same games), Dixie doesn't use her hair for anything.
And why is that?
Because those games where she DOES use her hair were main platformers where she would need to use it.
So why would it matter if Funky Kong hasn't used his surfboard for combative purposes in spin-offs more than it matters that he DOES in the main platformer he's playable in?

It's a double standard.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

During the treehouse they showed that Inklings don't actually need to be on their ink to recharge, so their kit isn't nearly as about stage control as I hoped

Do you realize how crippling that would be if you ran out of ink and had no ground still covered, since it does wear off? And even if it was still there, a huge portion of your moveset is sad and crippled and you would need to rush over to a specific part of the stage, which your opponent is aware of and can guard against, in order to leave yourself vulnerable for a period of time just for the privilege of being able to use your normal moveset again.
Sakurai absolutely handled this correctly, he learned from forcing gimmicks like Pokemon Trainer's stamina system.

Also it was never confirmed that they don't charge faster while on their ink, so you could still have your gimmick without it destroying the character's ability to do anything at all.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Didn't the things that happened at this E3 basically confirmed Vergeban's leak which means Simon is in? Or am i missing something?

At this point, there have been no more fighter confirmations after the Nintendo Direct, so you should take the idea of Simon Belmont being playable with a grain of salt.

 

[KingIceSonic]

Am I the only one who got more excited for Daisy than Ridley?

Since he was leaked and everyone was expecting him I wasn't too surprised when he got in. But when I saw Daisy I was legitimately SHOCKED lol

 

[Deleted member]

At this point, there have been no more fighter confirmations after the Nintendo Direct, so you should take the idea of Simon Belmont being playable with a grain of salt.

-sigh-

People need to stop thinking like this.
In the leak, literally only RIDLEY was said to be an E3 reveal.

So why the hell would something that wasn't EVER promised to show up within a specific time frame be something to discredit the leak if it doesn't show up within said specific time frame?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Am I the only one who got more excited for Daisy than Ridley?

Since he was leaked and everyone was expecting him I wasn't too surprised when he got in. But when I saw Daisy I was legitimately SHOCKED lol

Honestly yeah. We kind of ruined the Ridley surprise for ourselves. Daisy was a legit shock for everyone I think.

 

[Blargg888]

Also, is it just me, or is Bowser's new Final Smash reminiscent of the Super Mario Galaxy 2 Final Boss?

It's not exactly the same, but it's kinda similar with the punching and the black hole vortex thing behind him.

Sheik is actually in BotW Sheikah armor, so there actually isn't a TP styled character in the game right now.

She is? I don't see the difference, I don't think I ever got that outfit in BotW.

What's the difference between the two?

 

[SquashiniKun]

Guys... is it just me, or does this game feel like it's going to be the very last thing we'll ever see of Smash Bros for a long time? I'm worried that maybe after this game stops receiving content, the franchise will probably go on a hiatus or something.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

http://prntscr.com/ju9upt
Make an account you cowards!

Spoiler

/s

While we're doing random gripes, did anyone notice how bad Falcon's Fsmash looks? It looks like it's a forward-leaning Warlock Punch and it's terrible.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Just a question: Does somebody know what is Pokemon Trainer's final smash now? Or if each pokemon has its own?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I know I said I was not turning back on my prediction roster. But, I wanna start over speculation from scratch because the new direction Sakurai is taking with Smash Ultimate's roster is very interesting and completely changes the ball game on how I view certain newcomers now. Can I do that please? 3:

 

[MBRedboy31]

Guys... is it just me, or does this game feel like it's going to be the very last thing we'll ever see of Smash Bros for a long time? I'm worried that maybe after this game stops receiving content, the franchise will probably go on a hiatus or something.

If the Switch continues to sell well and has a long, long lifespan like the 3DS, they probably won't have a need to make another one for quite a while.
When a new console does show up, though, they most likely will put a new game into consideration.

 

[Hinata]

I know I said I was not turning back on my prediction roster. But, I wanna start over speculation from scratch because the new direction Sakurai is taking with Smash Ultimate's roster is very interesting and completely changes the ball game on how I view certain newcomers now. Can I do that please? 3:

Absolutely not. You made your bed, now you have to lie in it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

-sigh-

People need to stop thinking like this.
In the leak, literally only RIDLEY was said to be an E3 reveal.

So why the hell would something that wasn't EVER promised to show up within a specific time frame be something to discredit the leak if it doesn't show up within said specific time frame?

Considering what happened to Bomberman, there is that risk that Simon Belmont gets the Assist Trophy treatment as well. He would still be in the game, but not as a fighter.

Now, I'm not saying this because I dislike Simon Belmont, but the amount of 3rd party Assist Trophies that have been confirmed so far can make you think twice about some of the 3rd party characters' playable chances.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Am I the only one who got more excited for Daisy than Ridley?

Since he was leaked and everyone was expecting him I wasn't too surprised when he got in. But when I saw Daisy I was legitimately SHOCKED lol

I was more excited about the concept of Daisy than Ridley's reveal. The whole Echo Fighter thing has me feeling good.

She is? I don't see the difference, I don't think I ever got that outfit in BotW.

What's the difference between the two?

Spoiler

"Twilight" Sheik:

BOTW Sheikah Armor:

 

[Zerp]

I know I said I was not turning back on my prediction roster. But, I wanna start over speculation from scratch because the new direction Sakurai is taking with Smash Ultimate's roster is very interesting and completely changes the ball game on how I view certain newcomers now. Can I do that please? 3:

NEVER! /s


I don't think you need to ask us permission to do that.

 

[SciCore]

http://prntscr.com/ju9upt
Make an account you cowards!

Spoiler

/s

While we're doing random gripes, did anyone notice how bad Falcon's Fsmash looks? It looks like it's a forward-leaning Warlock Punch and it's terrible.

The elbow honestly felt like it was close to the knee in terms of how iconic it was to him, don't know why they would change it. We'll see how it ends up playing though, I guess.

 

[Originality]

Do you realize how crippling that would be if you ran out of ink and had no ground still covered, since it does wear off? And even if it was still there, a huge portion of your moveset is sad and crippled and you would need to rush over to a specific part of the stage, which your opponent is aware of and can guard against, in order to leave yourself vulnerable for a period of time just for the privilege of being able to use your normal moveset again.
Sakurai absolutely handled this correctly, he learned from forcing gimmicks like Pokemon Trainer's stamina system.

Also it was never confirmed that they don't charge faster while on their ink, so you could still have your gimmick without it destroying the character's ability to do anything at all.

Your ink recharges over time in Splatoon, even outside of ink, getting caught out of it would be bad but not a death sentence and would promote stage control, just like in Splatoon. I'm not really upset because I see how this way is easier both to implement and to play, but I'm still disappointed in them

 

[mario123007]

How in the world does that make me a hypocrite? Honest question.


If you look at my post history I've always been pro cut. I've never wanted everyone to come back. And what disappoints me, is less that the characters are in the game, and more than Sakurai literally said that that was the focus and to thus not expect many newcomers. That disappoints me. I get plenty of people want everyone back and that's fine. In fact I'm happy for them. I'm not go say the world is ending, I'm still gonna get the game, and I'm still going to enjoy it I'm sure. But I can do all of those things while being disappointed in the roster.

Newcomers have always been the most exciting part of smash games for me. And beyond that part of why I love smash, beyond the gameplay, is how everything Nintendo comes together as a celebration of NIntendo history. And tbh, I wish the roster of playable characters reflected that more.

But ultimately, the point is not everyone wants the same thing and that doesn't make people whose opinions differ hypocrites.

You probably get it wrong or just being defensive on your, again in my opinion, somewhat lofty hopes for Smash Switch, that's why I consider those who bring disappointed hypocrites,especially if your reason was "not much new comers". You know they will reveal more down the line right? Even after the release you will get DLC.

So you are actually thosr who supports character cuts?

Take it whatever you will but having characters being cut was never a good thing in my opinion. I understand when it comes to the clone characters return, but then again isn't more the better?

I haven't watch the tree house yet, but I have yet heard from Sakurai that there won't be much newcomers, even so it is pretty understandable.

I also think the game modes are as important as the newcomers. And with Sakurai's choice being more fan demand, expect to see those highly demanded characters like Ridley.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Guys... is it just me, or does this game feel like it's going to be the very last thing we'll ever see of Smash Bros for a long time? I'm worried that maybe after this game stops receiving content, the franchise will probably go on a hiatus or something.

Well it does feel like in bringing everyone together, it may be a send off.

And ultimate is one of the many words that meant something before it got mangled into "really good thing" (along with "Incredible", "Fantastic" and "Terrific"). In this case, it means last.

This is all stabbing in the dark with a spoon but you're not the only one.

 

[N3ON]

Vergeben has only said Ridley will be revealed at E3. Not Direct, E3. And no comment on the others. Watch out for connecting dots that aren't there. This is how leaks get misconstrued.

Yes, but, Verg isn't the only one who has whispered about Ridley. Should one of those other characters not be present, people are just going to assume Verg was full of it. Even though he never said they would be. Because that's how things work.

At this point, there have been no more fighter confirmations after the Nintendo Direct, so you should take the idea of Simon Belmont being playable with a grain of salt.

And there it is.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

People are excited about Daisy, but do we have any confirmation about her being actually different from Peach? Dark Pit kind of ruined my faith in Sakurai in that regard.

 

[N3ON]

People are excited about Daisy, but do we have any confirmation about her being actually different from Peach? Dark Pit kind of ruined my faith in Sakurai in that regard.

By virtue of being an "echo fighter" she's only going to be as different from Peach as Dark Pit and Lucina are from their respective counterparts.

 

[papagenos]

Ok so years of speculation has taught me that this is a terrible idea for predicting rosters... but years of speculation has also taught me that any idea I think is wrong or cant happen cause thats not how sakurai works ends up wrong cause sakurai changes up his methods EVERY game so here it goes:

We have the characters listed with numbers AND we have been told something to the effect of "you start out with the original 12 and add more" so this game is very much so a celebration of "smash" history itself not just nintendo/gaming history.

The demo roster follows this motif where the order the select screen is in, is the order the character were added to smash NOT placing characters with their respective series.

random? is still its own "spot" on the roster.

so if you take the original 12 characters and build from there you "could" get a roster like the one shown above going with a "base" row number of 12. that would leave "7" spots to fill the whole roster to make it even. obviously a staggered look for the bottom row could happen instead and unless DLC ends up being another 12 characters it would end up with a staggered row on the bottom at the end of all this anyway.

that said this is probably the first time, thanks to knowing all the veterans in advance and a good idea at the way the roster will be ordered, we have the possibility of guessing at exactly how many characters are left to "finish" the roster. its not perfect, it could definitely be wrong, but its probably the best guess we'll ever get at knowing that number before a smash game is out.

so if you subscribe to that logic that would mean 7 more newcomers. if you believe the vergeben leak than simon belmont is added and we are left with 6 more and tbh I dont think thats an unrealistic number at all.

AND just to be really optimistic i'll go out on a limb and say guessing at an additional 12 DLC isnt too crazy if DLC is supported for a few years after the games release... say 4 dlc packs of 3 characters? honestly not that crazy over a large amount of time to support the game.

which at the end of the day all things said and done not counting returning vets would give us a little over 20 new characters for this game which would fall in line with adding a bit more than we got in the past while at the same time sticking with sakurai's "i hope you dont expect too many new characters" as total newcomers would be 10 on the base roster counting daisy an "echo character".

speaking of daisy out of these "7" remaining i expect at LEAST one more "echo" character probably more because its odd to add a "term" for that and only add one character who fits that term. so 7 more characters with some being "echo characters" seems even more plausible given the "not too many newcomers" this time parameter.

71-75 base roster characters (mattering to how you count mii fighters, pokemon trainer, and echo characters).

its not a perfect guess, im more willing to bank on the base roster guess over trying to guess the total after DLC but i figured id follow the logic there anyway, and like i said it IS foolish to think we have the total roster number known... but than again its even more foolish to think we CANT know it just because we've never been able to guess at it properly in the past.

 

[Deleted member]

Unless it was a different, similar stage from Smash 4, I'm pretty sure we saw Fourside with all the Koopalings on it.

Oh dang, that is Fourside. How did I not notice that? Well, guess that's another positive then!

 

[N3ON]

As requested, here is every MISSING stage from #SuperSmashBrosUltimate . 29 stages overall. That really is not a lot. pic.twitter.com/5H14RImIYo

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 13, 2018

Hey PushDustIn , Garden of Hope was in the reveal trailer during Cloud's part.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

By virtue of being an "echo fighter" she's only going to be as different from Peach as Dark Pit and Lucina are from their respective counterparts.

That's the thing, Lucina is different. In Melee, all of the clones were different. But Dark Pit is so similar that he might as well be the same character and he has no real reason to exist... I'm worried that Daisy will be like that, technically not identical framedata, but no new properties that distinguish her from Peach.

 

[SmashChu]

I know I said I was not turning back on my prediction roster. But, I wanna start over speculation from scratch because the new direction Sakurai is taking with Smash Ultimate's roster is very interesting and completely changes the ball game on how I view certain newcomers now. Can I do that please? 3:

There really isn't any point to speculating anymore. You may get a few more characters and a few stages, but you just saw 90% of the game at least. Its not going to add much more than this since the whole point is "hey all the characters are back."

I expect that this game will go down as one of the weakest games. I think after the hype wears down people will realize there really isn't going to be much to this game. People will probably get bored with it really quickly as well as its all stuff from past games.

I also saw a really great point: where does the game go from here. You can't really have a big roster anymore since that's kind of the appeal of this game and its sacrificing new content on the alter of "Hey all the characters are back." I think it may be time for a reboot soon. After this, the series desperatly needs one.

 

[Curious Villager]

As requested, here is every MISSING stage from #SuperSmashBrosUltimate . 29 stages overall. That really is not a lot. pic.twitter.com/5H14RImIYo

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 13, 2018

Hey PushDustIn , Garden of Hope was in the reveal trailer during Cloud's part.

Ooh I hope Pirate Ship and Mushroom Kingdom 64 come back. And I know It's a bit redundant, but I hope Sector Z comes back too.

 

[BluePikmin11]

As of now, these are the newcomers I personally feel are certainties:

1. Octolings
2. Simon
3. Chorus Kids
4. Lycanroc
5. Isabelle
6. Rex OR Elma

Everyone else I predicted I am starting to get somewhat skeptical about, but I am planning to keep Hanafuda for Cutie Gwen .

 

[Zinith]

Is it just me or is Dark Pit and Lucina effectively cut from the game, as in as fighters that stand on their own and can carry their own tournament representation?

 

[blackghost]

Do you have proof for how recoveries have changed? That's a lot of data to submit. I doubt you can support the claim. Between the two of us, I doubt either of us have actual frame data. I sure don't. You agree that it's hard to tell without hands on. You need to hold your claims till we have evidence. I've made it pretty clear that this is just based on what I've witnessed without actual frame data. I'd ask you to do the same.

i have my eyes and four years of experience of how far recoveries went. additionally i have 3 more years of playing brawl. if you missed the fact that magnet hands aren't in smash ultimate at all you weren't watching closely. go back and watch the invitational. multiple characters had recoveries that appeared visibly shorter. characters died being sent at angles they would have made it back from off the top of my head mario, link, ganon, pac man (horzontal is not as flexible), and marth all had worse recoveries.
i dont think i saw a single character with a recovery better than before.

 

[Will]

So, are we gonna get another Rayman Smash 4 "leak" that looks so impressive it certainly couldn't be false and then it is?