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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Opossum

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After Bandana Dee, I think the most likely Kirby character is Magolor.

Popular, potential and one of the few villains that did not disappear forever.

Also planned to be playable in Star Allies, but scrapped. Probably will come as DLC.
Hadn't heard about that. Got any more info? I loved Return to Dreamland and thought Magolor was a neat character with a cute design.
 
D

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Hadn't heard about that. Got any more info? I loved Return to Dreamland and thought Magolor was a neat character with a cute design.
According to the datamine, appearently he was supposed to be playable but was scrapped early on.
 
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Chandeelure

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Hadn't heard about that. Got any more info? I loved Return to Dreamland and thought Magolor was a neat character with a cute design.
The information is in the last pages of the Bandana Dee thread, sorry, it is too hard to write and send links and stuff with a cellphone.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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Alright, Who else reeeeeeeally wants Professor Layton?

I love his games, even though I only actually currently own the Ace Attorney crossover. I loved the movie.

I think Layton is probably my most wanted character for this next game, if only to have some of that sweet, sweet music.
Fellow Layton fan here, what up
I got almost all of his games + PLvs AA and have watched the movie several times

I live to see Layton in Smash
 
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Mega Bidoof

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I'm curious now as to thoughts on new Kirby characters. Is there enough of a demand for someone new, or are we satisfied with Kirby, Meta Knight, and Dedede?

Personally, I'm fine with the line-up we already have. When I was younger, I wanted a REAL Kirby villain added (I don't think of Dedede as a true villain), so I advocated for Dark Matter, in his swordsman form with Zero as a Final Smash.

Since then, Bandana Dee has established itself to a point where many would call him a "main character," and I think he has an interesting enough moveset and fighting style to work with that would be unique to Smash Bros. There's always been other characters, like Galacta Knight, tossed around as well.

But now, with Kirby Star Allies, we're seeing a resurgence of other old favorites, like Gooey and Marx. What do you think?
I’d say as just non-canon free DLC characters, Gooey, Marx, and the animal friends don’t have increased chances, especially since there will be others that will added and it will kinda become a pool of old characters with no one being the “main one,” if that makes any sense.

I think Bandana Dee is the only Kirby newcomer with a solid chance, and I’d also say he has a solid chance in general. He’s both a recurring Kirby character, and would bring something new to the table gameplay-wise, as Smash’s first spear fighter (unless FE16’s protagonist is a spear user and is added in).
 
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Can someone explain the appeal of Layton from a gameplay perspective?
Because the only idea I've heard was "Layton with a sword", which is a poor selling point.
 
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Mega Bidoof

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According to the datamine, appearently he was supposed to be playable but was scrapped early on.
I’d be shocked if he isn’t fully implemented down the line, since they said there will be more characters added in free Dream Friend updates. I’m also expecting Adeline, Taranza, and maybe even Susie. Daroach would be amazing.
 

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Can someone explain the appeal of Layton from a gameplay perspective?
Because the only idea I've heard was "Layton with a sword", which is a poor selling point.
He used a slot machine gun at one point.

That and fencing are the only things I know he's done.

 
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Starcutter

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Can someone explain the appeal of Layton from a gameplay perspective?
Because the only idea I've heard was "Layton with a sword", which is a poor selling point.
They COULD use stuff from notable puzzles or scenes from professor Layton, as he's all about quick and logical thinking, using stuff from the surrounding area as tools or weapons. Like the time he made a slot machine gun from slot machine parts that fires coins.

Luke could also do something, I suppose.

Honestly, I don't care much about the gameplay perspective for layton. There's a lot of different things they could use from the games so he could literally be anything.
 

Chron

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So, it seems to me that the most persistent debate is whether this is an enhanced port or an entirely new game. I have a theory that maybe it’s a little of both. I think overall, if this theory is true, it would ultimately be unpopular with fans. Suppose Nintendo went with a Street Fighter V/Killer Instinct/Dissidia model where content is slowly released via updates during the lifespan of the game.

So at launch, the game would have reduced content as opposed to it being packed with content as per usual. Upon releasing, it would in theory be a Wii U port but will then transition into its own game with continuous updates that would extend past 2018 and maybe even into 2022.

Perhaps the starting roster would be the characters we saw in the teaser including Zelda, Peach, Bowser, Shiek, and the original 12 with Inklings as the sole newcomer. Then, both veterans and newcomers would be unveiled and then a soft trial release period followed by a global release.

That way, content like Pokemon Switch or Gen 8 or Metroid Prime 4 has a chance of appearing post launch. Obviously, content isn’t dedicated solely to characters but a wide range of game content.

I think it wouldn’t go well with the community but I think it’s a possibility.
I would be fine with this if it had a new engine. Most people don't care as long as there are a ton of new characters, but I want new mechanics more than anything.
 

Schnee117

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Okay, here's another one: who are some of your favorite characters from already-existing Smash franchises that you don't think stand a chance, but you think would be fun to play?

I've got Fawful, Lanky Kong, Jimmy T., Hawlucha, Hades, Duster, and Mighty Gazelle.
Mario: Fawful, King Boo, E Gadd
Wario: Captain Syrup
Zelda: Urbosa, Darunia
Pokemon: Darkrai, Tyranitar, Sceptile, Kabutops, Gallade, Zoroark, Hawlucha, Blastoise, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Infernape, Electivire, Metagross, Scizor, Gengar, Alakazam
Kid Icarus: Hades, Viridi, Phosphora, Pyrrhon
Fire Emblem: Lianna, Ephraim, Hector, Frederick, Black Knight, Chrom, Takumi, Haar, Minerva, Tiki, Lute, Nino, Jaffar, Cordelia, Severa, Owain, Lissa, Caeda, Gatrie, Zihark, Joshua, Mia, Reinhardt, Lyon, Hardin, Mae, Ryoma, Azura, Boyd, Jill, Sothe, Oliver, Tibarn, Kurthnaga, Skirmir
F-Zero: Black Shadow, Samurai Goroh, Pico
Earthbound: Giegue, Porky, Kumatora
Punch-Out!!: Mr Sandman
Metroid: Trace, Noxus, Rundas, Dark Samus
Xenoblade: Mumkhar, Dunban, Fiora, Reyn, Riki, Melia, Egil, Morag, Zeke, Nia, Tora, Malos, Jin
Sonic: Blaze, Omega, Chaos
Street Fighter: Rashid, Akuma, M Bison
Bayonetta: Rodin, Masked Lumen Sage
Pac-Man: Spooky
Final Fantasy: Kefka, Noctis, Sephiroth, Ardyn, Vivi, Tifa, Gilgamesh

 

Curious Villager

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Can someone explain the appeal of Layton from a gameplay perspective?
Because the only idea I've heard was "Layton with a sword", which is a poor selling point.
Layton's meat and potatoes are the puzzles, the sword is just a minor part of him that he shows off from time to time in a couple of animated cutscenes, I'd sooner see him use a leadpipe though as far as battering items go as he doesn't even have his own sword. I personally hope they just leave the whole sword thing with him for items like the beam sword or Lip's stick (Since their generally just weapons he finds lying around anyway, even in his games) and just focus entirely on the puzzle and contraptions aspect for his moveset. Bring in the Slot machine gun and Catapult if they need something from the animated cutscenes.
 
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Freduardo

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I’d be shocked if he isn’t fully implemented down the line, since they said there will be more characters added in free Dream Friend updates. I’m also expecting Adeline, Taranza, and maybe even Susie. Daroach would be amazing.
Neat, Kirby Star Allies DLC discussion

Magalor is I’m sure going to be some dream friends DLC. I’d be surprised if Adeline and Daroach weren’t. Same for Taranza and Susie honestly.

I want Lolo and Lala as DLC as well.
 

Double0Groove

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I thik you misunderstand: with no major changes to the engine I mean no major gameplay changes. A port is, by definition, way more similar gameplay wise.
Yeah, but it's not like it'll be the exact same game. It's true that gameplay definitely wouldn't evolve in the same way that it would for a new game, but it really doesn't matter. Well, I say that, but I know there are some people who'd love the prospect of a more competitive smash bros. game. With that being said, that would just make the issue a minor one if nothing else. Which, again, isn't worth arguing about.
 

FlexTapeF0rever

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What do you guys think of the fate of the Third Party Characters we have now
The 6 in Smash Bros 4 :4sonic::4megaman::4ryu::4pacman::4cloud::4bayonetta:
As well as the prisoner of Konami's war :snake:coming back
 
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Chron

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Okay, here's another one: who are some of your favorite characters from already-existing Smash franchises that you don't think stand a chance, but you think would be fun to play?

I've got Fawful, Lanky Kong, Jimmy T., Hawlucha, Hades, Duster, and Mighty Gazelle.
Bowyer, Romani, FElicia, Walrein, Kumatora.
 

?????????????

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What do you guys think of the fate of the Third Party Characters we have now
The 6 in Smash Bros 4 :4sonic::4megaman::4ryu::4pacman::4cloud::4bayonetta:
As well as the prisoner of Konami's war :snake:coming back
I think Sonic is about as close to 100% as you can get. I think Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Bayonetta are right along with there. I think they'll try to bring back Ryu and Cloud if possible, and I don't see any obstacles in the way of that, so I'm expecting them.

I highly doubt Snake will return...
 

Rocket Raccoon

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What Leak?
Some guy who's dad literally works at Nintendo said on reddit that Smash is a new game. Another redditor did some looking into and found out who his dad is and revealed he really did work at Nintendo and is an exec there. Several hours later, the guy who revealed the dude's father deleted his 2 year old account.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I’d be shocked if he isn’t fully implemented down the line, since they said there will be more characters added in free Dream Friend updates. I’m also expecting Adeline, Taranza, and maybe even Susie. Daroach would be amazing.
Agreed too on that, really - though I hope he doesn't overlap too much with Marx.

On my end, I'd love to see Chuchu, Pitch and Nago in same vein as Rick, Coo and Kine were - but mainly for Pitch. I absolutely loved that birdie in KDL3.
 

Chron

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Some guy who's dad literally works at Nintendo said on reddit that Smash is a new game. Another redditor did some looking into and found out who his dad is and revealed he really did work at Nintendo and is an exec there. Several hours later, the guy who revealed the dude's father deleted his 2 year old account.
So is it confirmed that actually is his dad?
 

FlexTapeF0rever

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Yeah, but it's not like it'll be the exact same game. It's true that gameplay definitely wouldn't evolve in the same way that it would for a new game, but it really doesn't matter. Well, I say that, but I know there are some people who'd love the prospect of a more competitive smash bros. game. With that being said, that would just make the issue a minor one if nothing else. Which, again, isn't worth arguing about.
I think that id we have any chance of getting another SquareEnix rep it will either be Geno for obvious reasons or a Dragon Quest character since the series has a long history with Nintendo.
 

?????????????

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I think that id we have any chance of getting another SquareEnix rep it will either be Geno for obvious reasons or a Dragon Quest character since the series has a long history with Nintendo.
I don't REALLY know how likely either of those options are, but I love them both. Geno is such a fun character idea, and there's SO much you could do with a Dragon Quest character.
 
D

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What do you guys think of the fate of the Third Party Characters we have now
The 6 in Smash Bros 4 :4sonic::4megaman::4ryu::4pacman::4cloud::4bayonetta:
As well as the prisoner of Konami's war :snake:coming back
I'd say most of them are pretty safe, Pac-Man's a lock if Namco's co-developing this entry (and we currently don't know whether or not that's the case, before anyone responds to this) and is pretty safe otherwise, Cloud could go either way, and there's still some unanswered questions regarding Snake's exclusion from Smash 4 and the current state of Konami.
 

Chron

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Just had a cool idea. Remember how to Characters Select is semi-transparent in Smash 4? Also remember how the characters do a short animation when chosen on Smash Bros. 64? Well do the same thing but behind the character selection.
 

Morbi

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Can someone explain the appeal of Layton from a gameplay perspective?
Because the only idea I've heard was "Layton with a sword", which is a poor selling point.
This is subjective; however, in the case of most third-party characters, the game-play does not seem to have much to do with anything. Sakurai cut Chrom and was hesitant about Corrin and yet made Cloud when the only real difference was a superior KO punch mechanic and a projectile.

Sonic just spins, he has made some iterations, but Sakurai was clearly not tapping into what makes Sonic unique. And while Mega Man and Pacman are love letters to their games, that is just it. He just sort of threw together aspects of their move-set, crammed even, and called it a day.

Snake, which was the first, was the only third-party that felt as though care was put into making it work.

Again, subjective. Maybe you adore one of those characters and believe the play-style is coherent. But for the most part, Banjo and Kazooie is my dream third-party, outside of Goku, and I literally already know the move-set. There would be a couple of moves that are surprises, but other than that, I actually genuinely know what everything would be as the characters are practically ports or just the essence of the character.

So, while Layton does not seem entirely appealing from the game-play perspective, I feel as though people do not care because subconsciously, they realize it does not matter. If the character has a kit, it will be a port. If not, they will just throw something together. It is more about having the character than anything else.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Agreed too on that, really - though I hope he doesn't overlap too much with Marx.

On my end, I'd love to see Chuchu, Pitch and Nago in same vein as Rick, Coo and Kine were - but mainly for Pitch. I absolutely loved that birdie in KDL3.
Actually, there's one more guy I wondered if could make a surprise appearance:

 

Morbi

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I'd say most of them are pretty safe, Pac-Man's a lock if Namco's co-developing this entry (and we currently don't know whether or not that's the case, before anyone responds to this) and is pretty safe otherwise, Cloud could go either way, and there's still some unanswered questions regarding Snake's exclusion from Smash 4 and the current state of Konami.
Even if Namco was not co-developing the game, it is still essentially a lock.

"Unanswered." Yeah... Sure.

I think that id we have any chance of getting another SquareEnix rep it will either be Geno for obvious reasons or a Dragon Quest character since the series has a long history with Nintendo.
Realistically, it might be Sora if they take ballot results vaguely seriously. Who knows, maybe Geno or a Dragon Quest character somehow topped one of Square Enix's biggest characters.
 

ColietheGoalie

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Recurring characters in general are pretty few and far between, outside of sequels and remakes. Fire Emblem is set up like Final Fantasy where each game is usually a radically different world, barring specific circumstances.

There are some pretty good villains though. Some fan favorites include Hardin from FE3/12, Berkut from FE15, Arvis from FE4, Lyon from FE8, and the Black Knight from FE9 and FE10. Of them Hardin is probably my favorite (he's among my favorite Fire Emblem characters in general), and if he got in he'd likely use his Emperor persona, wielding the Gradivus lance and being heavily armored.

Hardin's honestly a pretty tragic character too. In the War of Shadows (the war that took place in Shadow Dragon that was the start of Marth's story), he was his among Marth's closest allies, leading the Aurelian troops alongside Marth's Altean League and helping to keep Princess Nyna, the last living member of the Archanean royal family, safe. Come FE3/12, the sequel, and he marries her...for political reasons. He thinks it's genuine love, but it's not. I won't get into why here, but he sinks into a depression and in his moment of vulnerability, he's corrupted by the dark sorcerer Gharnef and brainwashed, basically, using his immense power to try to rule over the entire continent with an iron fist.

He only regains his old mind when Marth kills him, realizing what he'd done while possessed. He's a sad and really interesting character for a lot of reasons, but none that are relevant to Smash, haha.

That being said, due to the way Fire Emblem characters are chosen, a villain is more than likely not gonna happen, especially since they don't tend to be as popular as the game's protagonist anyway (even the Black Knight, the most popular antagonist, isn't as popular as Ike).
Hmm, interesting. I just feel (even though Smash hasn't worked this way) that any major series should have a villain included...

For Kirby, I'm fine with who we have. The hero, the anti-hero, and a (mostly) main villain.

If they were to add more:
- Bandana Dee could be fine, although I find nothing really interesting about him as a character
- Marx/Dark Matter would be awesome, as I love the idea of adding more outright villains. Throw Zero in while we're at it :p
 
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MSmariosonic

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Okay, here's another one: who are some of your favorite characters from already-existing Smash franchises that you don't think stand a chance, but you think would be fun to play?

I've got Fawful, Lanky Kong, Jimmy T., Hawlucha, Hades, Duster, and Mighty Gazelle.
Et voila:

Mario Bros: King Boo, Petey Piranha, Pink Gold Peach, Waluigi,
Donkey Kong: Rambi, King K Rool, Funky Kong
Legend of Zelda: Urbosa, Ghirahim, Darunia, Sidon
Metroid: Ridley, Trace, Weavel
Kirby: Rick, Bugzzy, Bonkers
Pokémon: Emboar, Feraligatr, Torterra, Spoink, Garchomp, Zoroark
Fire Emblem: Henry, Vaike
Kid Icarus: Magnus
F-Zero: Bio-Rex
Animal Crossing: Peanut
Sonic the Hedgehog: Tails, Knuckles, Big, Vector
Mega Man: X, Zero, Sigma,
Street Fighter: Balrog, Blanka, Juri, Alex
Final Fantasy: Lightning, Sephiroth,
Metal Gear: Raiden, Big Boss
 
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"Unanswered." Yeah... Sure.
For example, what was the exact reasoning behind Snake's absence? I'm sure most will agree that the state of Konami during Smash 4's DLC period probably didn't help matters then, but what about the base roster?
 

Curious Villager

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This is subjective; however, in the case of most third-party characters, the game-play does not seem to have much to do with anything. Sakurai cut Chrom and was hesitant about Corrin and yet made Cloud when the only real difference was a superior KO punch mechanic and a projectile.

Sonic just spins, he has made some iterations, but Sakurai was clearly not tapping into what makes Sonic unique. And while Mega Man and Pacman are love letters to their games, that is just it. He just sort of threw together aspects of their move-set, crammed even, and called it a day.

Snake, which was the first, was the only third-party that felt as though care was put into making it work.

Again, subjective. Maybe you adore one of those characters and believe the play-style is coherent. But for the most part, Banjo and Kazooie is my dream third-party, outside of Goku, and I literally already know the move-set. There would be a couple of moves that are surprises, but other than that, I actually genuinely know what everything would be as the characters are practically ports or just the essence of the character.

So, while Layton does not seem entirely appealing from the game-play perspective, I feel as though people do not care because subconsciously, they realize it does not matter. If the character has a kit, it will be a port. If not, they will just throw something together. It is more about having the character than anything else.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
It's not so much that he lacks from a gameplay perspective, quite the opposite, he has a lot to work with, wether it's from the tools he build, to the animal buddies from his assistant, to the thousands of puzzles he can use. Not to mention the general theme of the game regarding critical thinking and throwing off the player and keeping them guessing. All of which can be incorporated into his general playstyle.

It's moreso that the handful of fencing scenes are generally the more hype parts of the games for the fans so whenever they suggest Layton for Smash, those fencing cutscenes are generally the first thing that pops up into their minds, which leads those who are unfamiliar with the series to believe that Hershel is pretty much just a British Marth with a Top hat. So he's kind of been stuck with that stereotype ever since. Although I guess by that logic, you are right in that regard that It's more about having the character rather than what he'd bring to most of his fans.

I have no doubt in my mind though that if Sakurai where to ever include him, that he'll represent the character and the franchise he hails from as a whole, rather than what he has done within a handful of cutscenes.
 
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Morbi

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Okay, here's another one: who are some of your favorite characters from already-existing Smash franchises that you don't think stand a chance, but you think would be fun to play?

I've got Fawful, Lanky Kong, Jimmy T., Hawlucha, Hades, Duster, and Mighty Gazelle.
Black Shadow and Ganon. Not a Ganondorf rework, but the literal monster form of Ganon. The worst part is, even if one of these came true by a miracle, the other likely would not.

Those are the only characters that I truly want. Other than that, I am more interested in veterans, reworks, clones (hopefully not as lazy as last time), new IP, and third-party characters.
 

Zeallyx

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Inherently your second point is untrue_
we arent sure this game coming isnt a port, and it is generating massive hype.
It makes me very sad that you are holding yourself back from feeling the power that smash is back, simply because the game engine may or may not be different. That's actually the only difference between if it is a port or not. And I suppose if there are massive cuts that is also a difference, and a fair one.

That said, I am a Wii owner. I bought three first day and gave two to friends. Few love Wii U like I did.
And still I am very happy the games are coming to the Switch. I do hope that I can transfer all of my non Wii U digital games over to the Switch, THAT would be more of a failure to exclude, from my eyes. I don't have any issue with the ports of certain games, and have even rebought Mario Kart and Pokken, with intention to buy Hyrule Warriors and Tropical Freeze again.
That does not make my point untrue. It just means that you do not agree. I was talking about what the difference between it being a port and it being a new game is to me. If the engine is (nearly) the same then that means Smash Bros. is another step in the opposite direction of Wii U owners. I just will not pay 300 (Switch) + 60 (any game) + 80 (Pro controller) euros for what is essentially DLC for games I have already bought.

Yeah, but it's not like it'll be the exact same game. It's true that gameplay definitely wouldn't evolve in the same way that it would for a new game, but it really doesn't matter. Well, I say that, but I know there are some people who'd love the prospect of a more competitive smash bros. game. With that being said, that would just make the issue a minor one if nothing else. Which, again, isn't worth arguing about.
I still completely disagree. If it is not something you think is worth discussing, then that doesn't mean the same is true for others. To me, it being a port would mean I wouldn't really care for this, imo, falsely advertised DLC. If this is a new game, then that means a legitimately new game for the Switch, and thus possibly another reason to buy the console.
 

Morbi

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For example, what was the exact reasoning behind Snake's absence? I'm sure most will agree that the state of Konami during Smash 4's DLC period probably didn't help matters then, but what about the base roster?
I might be mixing up the timeline; however, I am fairly certain the Konami fiasco started during the development as is. Even if not, there was the behind the scenes aspect that Sakurai would have likely been aware of, albeit, I am fairly certain Kojima said he wanted Snake or something to that effect (although, again, notably not during the ballot).

I had this old theory that Snake was more or less just a personal request and once Sakurai fulfilled it, that it was done. So to that end, perhaps Konami was not involved; however, the circumstances would be worse regardless. We will probably never get a direct answer. Apparently he just said Ridley would not be Ridley without flight or some nonsense to explain that decision. So whatever the explanation, it is not as though it is going to be satisfying.

I am quite sure it was just Konami troubles and those have only gotten worse since then.
 
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