Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ZephyrZ]

I've always been very suspicious about Verg's claims about Pokemon and Square Enix. They seem too conveniently vague. I won't deny that they guy has real sources, but I something really rubs me the wrong way about him only knowing who we're not getting and the like.

 

[Schnee117]

Don't get me started on how this box theory implies we've got 2 characters left and...
...3 months.

I'm not sure that's how marketing works. I mean that genuinely, not snarkily. Why would we have 2 characters unrevealed when this game has almost 3 months to go of marketing, knowing very well the characters are the draw?

They're really bigging Spirit Mode up though.
They want that to be a selling point too.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Vergeben only has one source saying a Squeenix character is in the cards, which is why he hasn't said who the character is yet. His other sources are giving him nothing about the character.

So it's possible it's not actually coming to fruition,

I was under the assumption he was told of a Square Enix character but only one of his sources had a name?

Sounds similar to his Gen 7 Pokémon situation; sources telling him who it wasn't, while only one or two told him it was Incineroar.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Any disclaimer on the photo saying, "product not final" or something?

I mean it definitley isn’t final if there’s two empty spaces.

 

[Wyoming]

There can't be 72 characters because in smash down the final number of fighters must be divisible by 4 and since mii fighters are not included in smash down that means there are 71 characters for smash down. 71 isn't dividable by 4 so this box theory is broken.

Do we know for sure the same character can"t be picked twice in the same round?

 

[Will]

What did I miss?

Keep missing and don't look back.

 

[MargnetMan23]

But what if Sakurai does something wacky and has a trainer with Litten, Dartrix (or Rowlet) and Primarina? Wouldn't put it past him.

Well, to give further context here's how I rank Sun and Moon starters

Rowlet>Litten>Popplio
Dartrix>Brionne>Torracat (honestly all 3 of them are meh)
Decidueye>>>>>Incineroar=Primarina

I like the Rowlet line, but Sun and Moon's starters aren't great overall imo. If you were talking Hoenn or Unova (no Emboar pls) I'd be down but that's never happening rip.

I kind of hope Verg is wrong about the pokemon newcomer, but at this point I think he's probably right unfortunately.

 

[Luigi The President]

What did I miss?

They're really bigging Spirit Mode up though.
They want that to be a selling point too.

Good point.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Not only that, but assuming Incineroar and ken would be the last reveals is super low hype material for the final pushing of the marketing of this game. It just doesn't make sense.

Besides, If the big mural could be altered to add more characters, I'm pretty sure the Stinkin Box Art could be changed to fit more characters.

 

[Starbound]

And they ALSO seem split on Incineroar.
Show me where his sources seem split? He seems confident there will be an SE rep of some kind.

Yes, that's true that they are also split on Incineroar. Really, it could be any Gen 7 mon that in't Decidueye or Lycanroc.

Sources on the Squeenix character: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77000204/908714553
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77000204/908712528

 

[Shroob]

ffs, Vergeben never said "6 Unique characters"

He said "At least half a dozen more"


Nowhere there did he use the word "Unique"


People just choose to believe "When Vergeben says characters, he means uniques, not Echoes, because Echoes aren't 'real' characters".

 

[Deleted member]

This is all assuming both sides of the box will have that. The proportions of the arts could easily be resized and all of the roster fit one side of the box with however many real characters we are gonna end having. I will let you guys have fun with the two sides idea, but there is no proof that both sides are showing that, to me it just seems pointless to think of at the moment. Peace

I'm quite confused why people are so adamant that the art can't be changed and resized...like, it's not final. Isabelle isn't on it. Why are we freaking out and crying doom? It's like if we assumed that the only characters in the game were the ones silhouetted in Inkling's trailer.

Goodness, this is really all starting to get super silly.

 

[AlphaSSB]

At this point, the I feel only way the box art theory can be debunked is if there are newcomers listed on the back.

Can't be the original eight, unless Dark Samus was with them. Even then, that would leave nine newcomer and/or 'Echo' clone slots on one side, which would mess up the 'groups of nine' thing.

Likely isn't an early version of the box art either, since it takes a potential 'Echo' clone somewhere between Palutena and Ryu into account.

 

[Untouch]

That is a good point, the Miis aren't on the Smashdown screen.
The Smashdown screen in the direct has 3 empty slots, missing Isabelle, K Rool and Mii Fighters.

 

[Chandeelure]

I guess now it's time to change my avatar pic to this again.

Nah, I will wait until the game releases...

 

[GAINAX]

You guys ever stopped to think that the marketing/graphic design team has limited knowledge of who's going to be in the final roster?
Maybe they only know of the newcomers for the coming month and had to whack something together last minute to advertise the collector's edition.

 

[Starbound]

Besides, If the big mural could be altered to add more characters, I'm pretty sure the Stinkin Box Art could be changed to fit more characters.

The mural was designed to be altered.

That's a pretty big reach.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

God I dont even want to imagine not getting shadow

It's already bad enough being a sega fan and having bayonetta of all people repping purely out of marketing but now no shadow, probably no eggman boss, and hardly any sonic remix?

Oof

 

[Nazyrus]

Besides, If the big mural could be altered to add more characters, I'm pretty sure the Stinkin Box Art could be changed to fit more characters.

Yeah it's just ridiculously easy to edit by resizing the proportions of the character arts. I could do it myself in photoshop now, but i'm too lazy to prove something so obvious when it comes to an unfinished version of a product / placeholder version, people just want to be scared about it anyways, lol.

 

[The DanMan051]

That is a good point, the Miis aren't on the Smashdown screen.
The Smashdown screen in the direct has 3 empty slots, missing Isabelle, K Rool and Mii Fighters.

Remember when the ESRB leak was fake when the Mii FIghters weren't included on the CSS?
It's very possible that it was taken in a build where nobody had done anything with them-- and if you haven't created one they don't show up on the CSS.

 

[drag0nscythe]

There can't be 72 characters because in smash down the final number of fighters must be divisible by 4 and since mii fighters are not included in smash down that means there are 71 characters for smash down. 71 isn't dividable by 4 so this box theory is broken.

It does not have to be. The mode could end when the number of remaining characters is less than the number of players. They are also not going to release characters in packs of 4 and to top it off, it needs to also be divisible by 3.

Smashdown theory i do not buy. Sorry.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I just can't buy that the most basic, easy to add echo Shadow wouldn't be added when he already has a model in Smash 4 and Sonic is the 3rd party that has been in the most games. Why give Ryu and Simon echoes but not Sonic when everything you need is already there? Not to mention the Knuckles AT and missing Shadow. Shadow being in has way more of a chance then the chance of this box theory being correct.

I’m trying to keep the belief alive for Shadow, but if everything is lining up in the way it looks to be, we might have to wait for DLC.

Although I’m not entirely believing this Box deal yet. It is very interesting however, there’s also Verg not knowing everything as seen with K Rool and several Echoes so it’s highly possible that the box theory and Verg don’t hold all the secrets.

There however is also the very real possibility this is true. Who knows at this point? But the points raised are quite interesting.

 

[Luigi The President]

You guys ever stopped to think that the marketing/graphic design team has limited knowledge of who's going to be in the final roster?
Maybe they only know of the newcomers for coming month and had to whack something together last minute to advertise the collector's edition.

Great point.
Many people working on Ultimate weren't even aware "Everyone Is Here!"

 

[Nethermoosen]

Source for that?

My notes are saying he didn't use unique.

I don’t, but I’m fairly certain. I’ll do my best to find it. Google help me on this one.

 

[Misery Brick]

It's not so much that as it is that it all fits together too snugly.

If Ken and Incineroar are all that remains, then the box could look something like this.
View attachment 164346

This fits quite snugly on both sides of the box. Sure, there could be more. But either one side would be uneven, or it would be completely different. If there were more than two on the visible side, why not just make K.Rool the last one in the placeholder?

The following Twitter thread explains things nicely as well. @Swamp Sensei originally posted this earlier. https://twitter.com/ConnorEatsPants/status/1040744991176486912?s=19

This being the final roster also confirms what Sakurai implied. The total amount of stages on base roster for Smash Ultimate is 103. Neither Isabelle, Incineroar or Ken would require a new stage, which would now make three connections that corroborate 2 more Newcomers.
---
Now, this isn't directed at you Luigi The President , but I want to say this, and I really don't want to be that guy but I'm gonna say it.

You guys call this Smash speculation? Speculation is based on taking the information and dissecting it, analyzing it, and coming to a conclusion. The people saying it's "just a boxart" are literally coming to that conclusion by ignoring ALL OF THE INFORMATION that seemingly stacks up.

That's not speculation. That's willful ignorance. Sorry, but that's the truth.

I personally want there to be more characters waiting for us. But the information we've been given seems to piece together so snugly that it just makes too much sense.

Again, everybody needs to take a deep breath and think about it.

I'm sorry, but it's literal willful ignorance to consider that this is exactly how it's going to be.
Already consider the fact that Isabelle isn't included in the boxart, there's potentially three characters missing, and the fact that we actually don't have the full design of the box. Not to mention, promotional teams actually don't know the content of the game outside of materials they're handed.
Even Sakurai said no one knew about the veterans and newcomers.

What you're relying on is literally a mock up.
It's subject to change at any time, just like how all mural theories got shot down.

Your claims for two more potential characters, Ken and Incineroar, rely on Vergeben's rumors. Yet, you still ignore the fact that there's a potential Square Enix character.
And people have been dismissive of it, due to vagueness, but then that means Incineroar is out of the running.
Given only one source was completely confident on the starter's inclusion. Every one of his other sources couldn't actually pin down a Pokémon.

Like I get it if you want to keep expectations low, but it's outright bewildering me if you're going to take this as objective fact and the basis for the roster.
Like you said, this is a thread on speculation. Apart of speculation is putting evidence against it and seeing how it holds.

 

[Deleted member]

The mural was designed to be altered.

That's a pretty big reach.

I think what they were trying to say is that this box art is not final and really shouldn't be taken as the final word.

To each their own, though.

 

[Starbound]

Yeah it's just ridiculously easy to edit by resizing the proportions of the character arts. I could do it myself in photoshop now, but i'm too lazy to prove something so obvious when it comes to an unfinished version of a product / placeholder version, people just want to be scared about it anyways, lol.

If they could do that, why wouldn't they design the WIP box to not have any blank space?

 

[Pyra]

My favorite part about this is that the there's now a tear in the Vergeben discourse again.

Keep going

 

[Will]

If they could do that, why wouldn't they design the WIP box to not have any blank space?

Because I'm pretty sure that would be literally impossible.

 

[NintenRob]

Don't get me started on how this box theory implies we've got 2 characters left and...
...3 months.

I'm not sure that's how marketing works. I mean that genuinely, not snarkily. Why would we have 2 characters unrevealed when this game has almost 3 months to go of marketing, knowing very well the characters are the draw?


That's just silly. More reason then any Echo, or even Isaac? Can you explain as to why?

Well I'm talking strictly about the unique character.

And I definitely don't think it's Isaac, as I believe there are no more stages.


Skull Kid just has the most stuff for me to believe him.

And I'm bias, but I've come this far, I'm not not backing down now.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

ffs, Vergeben never said "6 Unique characters"

He said "At least half a dozen more"


Nowhere there did he use the word "Unique"


People just choose to believe "When Vergeben says characters, he means uniques, not Echoes, because Echoes aren't 'real' characters".

Ken is the only echo his ever claimed to have known anything about besides Isabelle Isabelle where he said she was an echo and then turned out to be unique. Ken could be unique. He could. But that would break the box theory either way. If Ken is an echo as Verge says then he's also likely correct about AT LEAST the Square character and Gen 7 Mon. Which ALSO breaks the box theory. You can either trust Vergeben or believe the box theory and so far Verge has been far more reliable than the marketing.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So which one is fake? Gen 7 Rep or Square Enix Character

 

[UberMadman]

You guys ever stopped to think that the marketing/graphic design team has limited knowledge of who's going to be in the final roster?
Maybe they only know of the newcomers for coming month and had to whack something together last minute to advertise the collector's edition.

In that case, why did they leave a spot for Ken?

 

[Will]

In that case, why did they leave a spot for Ken?

Why would they know Ken is in if he's not on the box? You're relying on Gematsu 2: Electric Boogaloo to say who's gonna be on it whenever we get more info.

 

[TheCJBrine]

For the record, Vergeben wasn't completely sure Isabelle was an echo, but he was for Ken being one.

 

[DevaAshera]

Bayonetta highly requested and expected...no she wasn’t (requested yes, but not highly and definitely not expected), and even with sales going down TR never ended up dead like Crash did. She kept on going and going and never dying...also Legends and Underworld were acclaimed by critics (and so far the current reboot series)

You must not have been in the Spectulation Thread during the time up to Smash 4's release, there were a ton of people expecting her to be in the base game due to Nintendo bankrolling Bayonetta 2.

I didn't mean as badly as Crash, but unlike Sonic, Cloud, Mega Man, Snake, Ryu, etc, she didn't really stay part of gaming pop culture. Her popularity as a gaming icon faded. There's a reason we see names like Cloud and Sora thrown around for Smash newcomers but not Lara's.

Not to mention, as I said, the reception of a 3rd Party character should probably be big worldwide and not just in the West.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So I'm predicting that Incineroar would be fighter 69 and then Geno the final being fighter 70.

I'd also expect there to be four more echos (Ken included who'd be fighter 60e) to round up to 80 characters. What do you guys think?

Who I think those other echos maybe.

Black Knight, Impa or Octoling
Dixie
Shadow

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't know who to believe anymore

for now I'll just assume my remaining wanted newcomers have been Thanos'd

it'll help me focus on other things too like potential jobs, still on the job hunt

see you guys in December. Or if somehow someone that isn't Incineroar, Ken or any Square character is announced next, I may return sooner

my profile has all alternate means of reaching me. till then, ciao

 

[AugustusB]

This is all assuming both sides of the box will have that. The proportions of the arts could easily be resized and all of the roster fit one side of the box with however many real characters we are gonna end having. I will let you guys have fun with the two sides idea, but there is no proof that both sides are showing that, to me it just seems pointless to think of at the moment. Peace

A million times this ^. Until 'The Box' is shown in its full glory (back and both sides) this is all speculation and certainly not the final nail to our character speculating.

Maybe the original 8 are on the back of the box in a row?
-Gives us 10 more characters to look forward to.

The original 8 could be on the back and those blank spaces are just there for ***** and giggles
-That gives us 8 more characters to look forward to.

Maybe I am crazy? But in the end, we're all a little crazy.

All in all, nothing is set in stone until the next direct.

 

[Luigi The President]

I don't know who to believe anymore

for now I'll just assume my remaining wanted newcomers have been Thanos'd

it'll help me focus on other things too like potential jobs, still on the job hunt

see you guys in December. Or if somehow someone that isn't Incineroar, Ken or any Square character is announced next, I may return sooner

my profile has all alternate means of reaching me. till then, ciao

D...damn buddy
Be safe? This is...this is kinda sudden. Hang in there