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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Freduardo

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I'm most excited for that game. I was sad that there was so little animation.
  • Mario
  • Luigi
  • Peach
  • Daisy
  • Yoshi
  • Birdo
  • Baby Mario
  • Baby Luigi
  • Baby Peach
  • Baby Daisy
  • Baby Rosalina
  • Wario
  • Waluigi
  • Donkey Kong
  • Diddy Kong
  • Bowser
  • Bowser Jr.
  • Toad
  • Toadette
  • Rosalina
  • Luma
  • Boo
  • Dry Bowser
  • Dry Bones
  • Shy Guy
  • Fly Guy
  • Koopa Troopa
  • Paratroopa
  • Cappy
  • Tiara
  • Nabbit
  • Cheep Cheep
  • Blooper
  • Bullet Bill
  • Metal Mario
  • Pink Gold Peach
We’re doing Mario Tennis Rosters now?

Alright, I’m in.

  • It’sa him, Mario!
  • Luigi
  • Wario
  • Waluigi
  • Peach
  • Daisy
  • Bowser
  • Bowser Jr
  • Yoshi
  • Birdo
  • Toad
  • Toadette
  • Donkey Kong
  • Donkey Kong Jr
  • Diddy Kong
  • Dixie Kong
  • Koopa Troopa
  • Paratroopa
  • Boo
  • Shy guy
  • Pauline
  • Cranky Kong
  • Morton Koopa
  • Kamek
  • Nabbit
  • Professor E. Gadd
  • Dry Bones
  • King Boo
  • Captain Toad
  • Toads-worth
  • Larry
  • Lemmy
  • Wendy
  • Ludwig
  • Roy
  • Iggy
  • Boom Boom
  • Pom Pom
  • Ma Broodal
  • Girl Broodal
  • Lanky Broodal
  • Stout Broodal
  • Link
  • Zelda

I’m going to stop before I get to Mario rpg characters

You're setting your hopes WAAAAAAAAY too high buddy. If you think Mario Tennis Aces is gonna have a roster the size of the Mario Baseball games you're living in a cartoon.
Bullet Bill? Really?
Oh I set my hopes higher.

And I don’t regret it at all
 
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D

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You're setting your hopes WAAAAAAAAY too high buddy. If you think Mario Tennis Aces is gonna have a roster the size of the Mario Baseball games you're living in a cartoon.
Bullet Bill? Really?
We've had weirder things happen than a Bullet Bill playing tennis.
 

PeridotGX

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GET HAIP BOIZ! :D

The last Direct dropped one heckuva bombshell with Dark Souls: Remastered, so that got me thinking: what surprise game do they have in store for us now? :3
I don't expect much new information, at the most maybe a name for Yoshi 2018 and a few new amiibo.
 

TheLastJinjo

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I don't expect much new information, at the most maybe a name for Yoshi 2018 and a few new amiibo.
If it's a deluxe enhancement of Smash than I can see them announcing it before E3. I'm just tired of people sitting through the whole direct like "Is it gonna be smash? Is it gonna be smash? Is it gonna be smash? Is it gonna be smash?" and no matter what is in the direct, they'll whine and cry because Nintendo doesn't talk about Super Smash Bros.
 

MamaLuigi123456

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If it's a deluxe enhancement of Smash than I can see them announcing it before E3. I'm just tired of people sitting through the whole direct like "Is it gonna be smash? Is it gonna be smash? Is it gonna be smash? Is it gonna be smash?" and no matter what is in the direct, they'll whine and cry because Nintendo doesn't talk about Super Smash Bros.
Well that's the Smash fanbase for ya
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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An HD Melee seems rather doubtful, since everything would have to be recreated from scratch. If you really want Melee so bad, the best you could probably hope for is wait for the Nintendo Switch to announce GCN Virtual Console.
 

AwesomeAussie27

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And the winner was Caeda, probably because most would want to see her fight her hubby. Minerva was pretty popular and she was close to winning. Everyone forgot Navarre and Medeus exists.

Next will be the first of two Fire Emblem Gaiden/Echoes polls. Your choices are Alm, Celica, Tobin, and Leon.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Go on.

 

Guybrush20X6

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*Sigh*

Virtual Console... where art thou?
 

TheLastJinjo

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An HD Melee seems rather doubtful, since everything would have to be recreated from scratch. If you really want Melee so bad, the best you could probably hope for is wait for the Nintendo Switch to announce GCN Virtual Console.
Why do people ask for remakes of games that are all about NEW content?! Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart...

The whole selling points of these games is the new content. Even if they weren't, the developers would inevitably add new content to these games at which point they would say to themselves "Well, why don't we just actually make a new game?"

*Sigh*

Virtual Console... where art thou?
It took them ****ing forever to get N64 games that worth a **** and now we gotta start all over again! They need to step it up because I am tired of this!

They need to scrap the "Virtual Console" brand and make something better. No more ****ty, dark, blurry emulators. Add some borders or backgrounds based on the corresponding console that make the player feel like they are really playing an NES/SNES/N64 game. Obviously they can't do GameCube because there are no analog triggers on the Nintendo Switch, but bring back Sega consoles, have all the Nintendo consoles at the start, including Wii, and most importantly, have a pixel perfect mode.
 
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Cosmic77

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Why do people ask for remakes of games that are all about NEW content?! Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart...

The whole selling points of these games is the new content. Even if they weren't, the developers would inevitably add new content to these games at which point they would say to themselves "Well, why don't we just actually make a new game?"
I'm actually scared of a Smash port being announced this year, and here's why:


The longest gap between Mario Kart releases was waaaay back between Mario Kart 64 (December 14, 1996) and Mario Kart Super Circuit (July 21, 2001). That was about a four and a half year gap. The latest Mario Kart game, Mario Kart 8, was released on May 29, 2014, and we're quickly approaching the four year mark for that game. Unless Nintendo can magically reveal AND release a new Mario Kart before the end of November, we'll be facing the longest gap between MK releases. Since MK8D came out just last year, that seems unlikely for a number of reasons.

I'm afraid that a Smash port could have similar consequences. Yeah, we might get some Smash Bros. content sooner, but at what cost? If Nintendo releases a Smash port this Holiday season - four years later after the release of Smash Wii U - then we could have to wait 7-8 years before we get a proper sequel. Might be even longer if Nintendo is making preparations for the Switch's replacement by then.
 
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D

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I'm actually scared of a Smash port being announced this year, and here's why:


The longest gap between Mario Kart releases was way back between Mario Kart 64 (December 14, 1996) and Mario Kart Super Circuit (July 21, 2001). That was about a four and a half year gap. The latest Mario Kart game, Mario Kart 8, was released on May 29, 2014. We're quickly approaching the four year mark for that game. Unless Nintendo can magically reveal AND release a new Mario Kart before the end of November, we'll be facing the longest gap between MK releases. Since MK8D came out just last year, that seems unlikely for a number of reasons.

I'm afraid that a Smash port could have similar consequences. Yeah, we might get some Smash Bros. content sooner, but at what cost? If Nintendo releases a Smash port this Holiday season - four years later after the release of Smash Wii U - then we could have to wait 7-8 years before we get a proper sequel. Might be even longer if Nintendo is making preparations for the Switch's replacement by then.
Then again, keep in mind that the gap between Melee's release and Brawl's release was between six years and a little more months ( before you call me dumb, it is actually not seven years. Japanese's Melee's release was at November 21st, 2001 and Japanese Brawl's release date was in January 31st, 2008. Brawl in Japan would have to be released in November 21st, 2008 or longer for it to be seven years.

Either way, I am not on board with a Smash 4 port either. I want something new, something fresh and a new meta. A new meta away from the Smash 4 meta would be nice. New items, new stages, new characters even! A Smash 4 port would not be bad, it would be disappointing as the potential for a new Smash game would have to wait.

Edit: Excited for Nintendo Direct. I know they will not talk about Smash for Switch, but hyped for it either way. :)
 
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TheLastJinjo

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I'm actually scared of a Smash port being announced this year, and here's why:


The longest gap between Mario Kart releases was waaaay back between Mario Kart 64 (December 14, 1996) and Mario Kart Super Circuit (July 21, 2001). That was about a four and a half year gap. The latest Mario Kart game, Mario Kart 8, was released on May 29, 2014, and we're quickly approaching the four year mark for that game. Unless Nintendo can magically reveal AND release a new Mario Kart before the end of November, we'll be facing the longest gap between MK releases. Since MK8D came out just last year, that seems unlikely for a number of reasons.

I'm afraid that a Smash port could have similar consequences. Yeah, we might get some Smash Bros. content sooner, but at what cost? If Nintendo releases a Smash port this Holiday season - four years later after the release of Smash Wii U - then we could have to wait 7-8 years before we get a proper sequel. Might be even longer if Nintendo is making preparations for the Switch's replacement by then.
Nintendo has probably already been working on a Mario Kart and may very well reveal it tomorrow or definitely at E3. Hopefully a Double Dash sequel called "Mario Kart Switch" (get it?) since we already have a normal installment on Switch: Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.

As for Super Smash Bros, 2020 would make it five years, which is a reasonable year to expect a new installment to be released. Or 2021.
 
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KniteBlargh

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Here's a challenge for everyone. Try to add one newcomer (or cut veteran) to each of the 27 franchises currently in Smash. You can add whoever you want and it doesn't have to be someone likely to get in. The only rule is that is that the character you choose has to be from a game that's already released. You can't just say "Pokémon from Gen VIII" or "Fire Emblem Switch character".


Here's mine:

Super Mario: Pauline
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
Legend of Zelda: Mipha
Metroid: Ridley
Yoshi: Kamek
Kirby: Bandana Dee
Star Fox: Wolf
Pokémon: Lycanroc
F-Zero: Black Falcon
EarthBound: Ninten
Fire Emblem: Lyn
Game & Watch: Chef
Kid Icarus: Medusa
WarioWare: Ashley
Pikmin: Alph
Famicom: Diskun
Animal Crossing: Isabelle
Wii Fit: Wii Fit Board
Punch-Out!!: King Hippo
Xenoblade Chronicles: Rex & Pyra
Duck Hunt (or any game to use NES Zapper): Wild Gunman
Sonic: Tails
Mega Man: Zero
Pac-Man: Ghosts
Street Fighter: Ken
Final Fantasy: Black Mage
Bayonetta: Jeanne
I'm rather late, but want to try my hand at this...

Super Mario: Daisy
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
Legend of Zelda: Tetra
Metroid: Sylux
Yoshi: Kamek
Kirby: Bandana Waddle Dee
Star Fox: Slippy Toad
Pokémon: Marill
F-Zero: Pico
EarthBound: Poo
Fire Emblem: Tiki
Game & Watch: Stanley the Bugman
Kid Icarus: Viridi
WarioWare: Jimmy T.
Pikmin: The President of Hocotate Freight
Famicom: Ayumi Tachibana (Wasn't quite sure what would qualify here; would have chosen Takamaru or Donbe & Hikari if it could be any Famicom game character.)
Animal Crossing: Isabelle
Wii Fit: Mii Dancer
Punch-Out!!: Glass Joe
Xenoblade Chronicles: Elma
Duck Hunt (or any game to use NES Zapper): Day Dreamin' Davey
Sonic: Tails
Mega Man: Roll
Pac-Man: Ms. Pac-Man
Street Fighter: Chun-Li
Final Fantasy: Vivi Ornitier
Bayonetta: Loki

Also, looking forward to the direct tomorrow! Not sure what to expect, although I'm not expecting anything about Smash. Hey, if I'm wrong, good! :)
 

Cosmic77

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Nintendo has probably already been working on a Mario Kart and may very well reveal it tomorrow or definitely at E3. Hopefully a Double Dash sequel called "Mario Kart Switch" (get it?) since we already have a mainstream installment: Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.

As for Smash, 2020 would make it six years, which is a reasonable year to expect the game to be released.
A new Mario Kart being announced this soon seems unlikely, but I'll try to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt.

That year (2020) is only reasonable to expect if Nintendo doesn't release a Smash port this year. There's no way Nintendo could create a port, make a brand new Smash in less than two years, and still somehow stay on track with the whole "six years between releases" pattern.
 
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Freduardo

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A new Mario Kart being announced this soon seems unlikely, but I'll try to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt.

That year (2020) is only reasonable to expect if Nintendo doesn't release a Smash port this year. There's no way Nintendo could create a port, make a brand new Smash in less than two years, and still somehow stay on track with the whole "six years between releases" pattern.
It’s very likely Mario kart has a new version at this direct.

The phone one.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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An HD Melee seems rather doubtful, since everything would have to be recreated from scratch. If you really want Melee so bad, the best you could probably hope for is wait for the Nintendo Switch to announce GCN Virtual Console.
The GameCube Controllers do not work perfectly on the Switch. The L/R pressure system is treated as a single button click. They have to fix that up to properly port the game over. If it's not a 1:1 port, then it's not going to be popular or sell well at all. That L/R difference is a huge thing for competitive players, and people will definitely want to hold tournaments with the newer system. In order for it to sell, it has to be done right.

So if it they can't perfectly emulate every bit of it(removing some glitches aside, maybe, but note what I'll say later why this is fruitless), they're better off remaking it instead of having a lesser port of it. This isn't feasible either. But at this point, it looks more like a GameCube problem they need to fix before releasing it. I don't remember if other games depend on the L/R pressure system, but it's pretty important for Melee at least. So if they can fix that, they're golden. If not, remakes are just plain smarter and will do better. The only other option is to not bother with a VC release of some games. Melee may be wanted, but people want it the way it originally played or an update HD port. Realistically, there isn't a good 3rd option from a business perspective.
 

Freduardo

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The GameCube Controllers do not work perfectly on the Switch. The L/R pressure system is treated as a single button click. They have to fix that up to properly port the game over. If it's not a 1:1 port, then it's not going to be popular or sell well at all. That L/R difference is a huge thing for competitive players, and people will definitely want to hold tournaments with the newer system. In order for it to sell, it has to be done right.

So if it they can't perfectly emulate every bit of it(removing some glitches aside, maybe, but note what I'll say later why this is fruitless), they're better off remaking it instead of having a lesser port of it. This isn't feasible either. But at this point, it looks more like a GameCube problem they need to fix before releasing it. I don't remember if other games depend on the L/R pressure system, but it's pretty important for Melee at least. So if they can fix that, they're golden. If not, remakes are just plain smarter and will do better. The only other option is to not bother with a VC release of some games. Melee may be wanted, but people want it the way it originally played or an update HD port. Realistically, there isn't a good 3rd option from a business perspective.
But fixing that isn’t impossible, is it? I mean doesn’t it work with the adapter for Wii U? So it just has to be patched to read that adapter the same
 

TheLastJinjo

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Two IPs I've been contemplating as newcomers are The Brain Games & Pilotwings.

Pilotwings to me would be a very likely newcomer to me, but no matter how popular a game is, it doesn't matter if there's not a character worth adding. A generic pilot named "Pilot" is a possibility, but I don't think that works as well as "Ice Climber" or "Balloon Fighter". I'm fully aware there is a cast of characters in Pilotwings 64, but like I said, if nobody is going to recognize or care about the character, it really doesn't matter. You can't just have "Lark" show up as a newcomer. It doesn't work.

I'm not sure how well selling Big Brain Academy is, but if it is, I can totally see a newcomer from there. Brain Age is no doubt an extremely popular Nintendo game, but there are no characters from it.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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But fixing that isn’t impossible, is it? I mean doesn’t it work with the adapter for Wii U? So it just has to be patched to read that adapter the same
It does not work for the GameCube Controller Adapter at all, actually.

It only works on the Wii due to it being a normal controller port. The adapter has not made it work. Also, it does not work whatsoever on the Switch with the Adapter. This means they do have to fix it first. We don't know how easy it is. It might be per game download(but yes, we already know the Switch does not recognize the pressure system. Also keep in mind the Adapter was not designed to make it an automatic controller. It was kind of mishandled in that sense. When you put the Adapter in, it's up to the game to recognize whether it's usable). This means that by design, they'd have to make an entirely new Adapter model or program each individual game to recognize it's full functionability. It's remotely possible they could release a Switch Patch for it, but considering it doesn't exist for the Wii U at all, it's more likely they'll do it per game. Mind you, that means they have to modify the data of Melee. If it's "too old to modify", that means they're left with 3 choices; release a downgraded game, remake it entirely, or don't release it at all. Depending what they can pull out, and honestly I hope simply modifying the game for that small bit is possible(though I'd like a remake, there's other games to consider redoing), we might never see it on VC at this point. I know Sunshine also has the pressure system. I don't know of other games beyond that, though. Anybody got a nice list?

But I can tell you directly that the pressure system is a pretty big deal for Melee gameplay. It's not an underused glitch, but actually serves a purpose in it(perhaps less so than Sunshine's usage, but that isn't the point).
 

Krysco

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I'm not sure if PoR does this but I know RD does where if you use a Gamecube controller, the L/R buttons make the HUD transparent and the further in you press, the more transparent it becomes. Completely disappears if you have it fully pressed in.

I wanna say Luigi's Mansion made use of the L/R feature too but I don't remember.
 

lady_sky skipper

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Two IPs I've been contemplating as newcomers are The Brain Games & Pilotwings.

Pilotwings to me would be a very likely newcomer to me, but no matter how popular a game is, it doesn't matter if there's not a character worth adding. A generic pilot named "Pilot" is a possibility, but I don't think that works as well as "Ice Climber" or "Balloon Fighter". I'm fully aware there is a cast of characters in Pilotwings 64, but like I said, if nobody is going to recognize or care about the character, it really doesn't matter. You can't just have "Lark" show up as a newcomer. It doesn't work.

I'm not sure how well selling Big Brain Academy is, but if it is, I can totally see a newcomer from there. Brain Age is no doubt an extremely popular Nintendo game, but there are no characters from it.
Actually, people hardly remembered Nana and Popo or the game Ice Climbers before Super Smash Bros Melee but once Nintendo put them in people started caring about them and checked out the game Ice Climbers. So if Nintendo were to put in a character from the SNES or N64 Pilotwings game it would allow new fans to check out the games. So I still want to see a Pilotwings character in Smash.
 

MamaLuigi123456

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Two IPs I've been contemplating as newcomers are The Brain Games & Pilotwings.

Pilotwings to me would be a very likely newcomer to me, but no matter how popular a game is, it doesn't matter if there's not a character worth adding. A generic pilot named "Pilot" is a possibility, but I don't think that works as well as "Ice Climber" or "Balloon Fighter". I'm fully aware there is a cast of characters in Pilotwings 64, but like I said, if nobody is going to recognize or care about the character, it really doesn't matter. You can't just have "Lark" show up as a newcomer. It doesn't work.

I'm not sure how well selling Big Brain Academy is, but if it is, I can totally see a newcomer from there. Brain Age is no doubt an extremely popular Nintendo game, but there are no characters from it.
Actually, people hardly remembered Nana and Popo or the game Ice Climbers before Super Smash Bros Melee but once Nintendo put them in people started caring about them and checked out the game Ice Climbers. So if Nintendo were to put in a character from the SNES or N64 Pilotwings game it would allow new fans to check out the games. So I still want to see a Pilotwings character in Smash.
Well hey if I can make a moveset for Light Plane of all things I'm sure Nintendo could come up with something :p
 

TheLastJinjo

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Actually, people hardly remembered Nana and Popo or the game Ice Climbers before Super Smash Bros Melee but once Nintendo put them in people started caring about them and checked out the game Ice Climbers. So if Nintendo were to put in a character from the SNES or N64 Pilotwings game it would allow new fans to check out the games. So I still want to see a Pilotwings character in Smash.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's a free for all when it comes to adding random characters. I specifically mentioned that I don't think "Lark" or "Pilot" works the same way that Ice Climbers would.

Ice Climbers are actually interesting. As interesting as a Pilotwings character would be, a generic "pilot" is not a very interesting addition. As for "Lark", it's not the same as a retro famicom addition. The point of Ice Climber's inclusion is because the director thought a retro famicom character would be interesting. A poorly designed, completely unmemorable character, from an early N64 launch title, isn't exactly interesting.

If Lark got in Super Smash Bros, it would be because he's memorable or interesting. Not just because he's the only Pilotwings character available from the only installment where any existed. You can't just put "Lark" on the character select screen like that. "Oh, yeah. LARK."

If Pilotwings doesn't have a character worthy of inclusion, it shouldn't have one at all. Maybe if they were a team and called the fighter "Pilots" or something like that, it could work. What I take issue is trying to sell a Pilotwings character as "Lark".
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Ice Climbers are hardly memorable either(and were not really interesting either. They're literally just characters who jump and platform in a pretty poor game that was highly unbalanced. What actually mattered is the potential due to what they were, as it was all pretty much made up instead). It was an actual unpopular game and the only reason people remember them is Melee at this point realistically. They got in due to a mechanic idea they had. If Lark had a mechanic idea that works, he'd be easy to throw in.

It's the same situation at this point. It'd just be a retro character(and the n64 is an old system) when it came to how recent they've been/system-wise but also an easy option if they find a good idea moveset-wise. They don't need an interesting personality to get in whatsoever and it's actually pretty irrelevant to character additions. What matters more is what they need to do to add them. What do they bring to the table moveset-wise? What unique gimmicks can they give? That kind of thing.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Ice Climbers are hardly memorable either. It was an actual unpopular game and the only reason people remember them is Melee at this point realistically. They got in due to a mechanic idea they had. If Lark had a mechanic idea that works, he'd be easy to throw in.

It's the same situation at this point. It'd just be a retro character(and the n64 is an old system) when it came to how recent they've been/system-wise but also an easy option if they find a good idea moveset-wise. They don't need an interesting personality to get in whatsoever and it's actually pretty irrelevant to character additions. What matters more is what they need to do to add them. What do they bring to the table moveset-wise? What unique gimmicks can they give? That kind of thing.
Did you black out or something when I said that having unmemorable characters and unmemorable FAMICOM characters, isn't the same thing? Because it would really frustrate me if you INTENTIONALLY ignored that.

By your logic, ANYBODY works as long as you give them a unique move set. You can't just go "Well, Ice Climbers, therefore Doshin The Giant."
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Did you black out or something when I said that having unmemorable characters and unmemorable FAMICOM characters, isn't the same thing? Because it would really frustrate me if you INTENTIONALLY ignored that.

By your logic, ANYBODY works as long as you give them a unique move set. You can't just go "Well, Ice Climbers, therefore Doshin The Giant."
And that is my logic. Anybody can work if you can find them a moveset. I don't see an issue here.

I don't see a reason to be highly picky for characters either. You look at a list of options and see if you find something interesting. There can be tons of other reasons. Like promoting a revival or VC release, or a character you find really interesting potential-wise. Personality doesn't get characters in anywhere near as much as potential movesets. There's tons of reasons to add someone. You want something from the n64 era? You look for the easiest options before going to the 3rd parties, which cost way more. Movesets have to be possible before any character can be added. Also, yet another example of where a moveset outshined everything was Greninja. He saw a moveset. Personality was irrelevant. He was looking for someone from the latest game, but that was the sole prerequisite and nobody would've gotten in unless he found someone with clear moveset potential. That's the only real reason Ice Climbers got in over all the other retro options. They were not "interesting" in their game, he just saw an easy to make moveset.

This is also why many characters didn't get in. Chrom had no interesting moveset options to Sakurai. Nor Toad. Meanwhile Robin and Rosalina actually did, hence who got in.(albeit, they are different types of examples, but the point completely stands. Movesets are the most important for being playable. Clones still count for this because the moveset needs to match up animation-wise).
 

TheLastJinjo

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And that is my logic. Anybody can work if you can find them a moveset. I don't see an issue here.

I don't see a reason to be highly picky for characters either. You look at a list of options and see if you find something interesting. There can be tons of other reasons. Like promoting a revival or VC release, or a character you find really interesting potential-wise. Personality doesn't get characters in anywhere near as much as potential movesets. There's tons of reasons to add someone. You want something from the n64 era? You look for the easiest options before going to the 3rd parties, which cost way more. Movesets have to be possible before any character can be added. Also, yet another example of where a moveset outshined everything was Greninja. He saw a moveset. Personality was irrelevant. He was looking for someone from the latest game, but that was the sole prerequisite and nobody would've gotten in unless he found someone with clear moveset potential. That's the only real reason Ice Climbers got in over all the other retro options. They were not "interesting" in their game, he just saw an easy to make moveset.

This is also why many characters didn't get in. Chrom had no interesting moveset options to Sakurai. Nor Toad. Meanwhile Robin and Rosalina actually did, hence who got in.(albeit, they are different types of examples, but the point completely stands. Movesets are the most important for being playable. Clones still count for this because the moveset needs to match up animation-wise).
I'm not being highly picky. I'm trying to be realistic here. And I didn't say I wanted a character from the N64 era. EVER. We're talking about Pilotwings characters.

I think it's incredibly disingenuous for you to act like a character's notoriety doesn't matter WHATSOEVER. Not even in the SLIGHTEST. Obviously their uniqueness is the most important part. You can't say that was the ONLY reason Rosalina and Bowser Jr were added. It's clear that there are certain characters that get looked at before other characters.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'm not being highly picky. I'm trying to be realistic here. And I didn't say I wanted a character from the N64 era. EVER. We're talking about Pilotwings characters.

I think it's incredibly disingenuous for you to act like a character's notoriety doesn't matter WHATSOEVER. Not even in the SLIGHTEST. Obviously their uniqueness is the most important part. You can't say that was the ONLY reason Rosalina and Bowser Jr were added. It's clear that there are certain characters that get looked at before other characters.
There's a reason it doesn't apply for every character. But for some, yeah, it does. Ice Climbers is literally a pure case of "we saw a unique gameplay potential". They were not honestly memorable. Also, it's not like the whole idea is solely looking at the Famicom era here. Honestly, that wasn't even the point being made. Just that taking a non-memorable character and putting them in Smash is a great way to make them more well known. That was the point they were clearly making, and they're right. A lot of obscure characters get heavily known due to Smash, even when it comes to simply being nothing more than cameos/trophies. Smash is the best way to streamline characters to the world. Even Japanese characters. Lucas, Roy, Marth, they were extremely obscure in the US, and not really notorious there at all.

That said, I did miss some context, but I disagree with the idea that a game can't have a character worth adding just because they're obscure. That just feels like ignoring a potential option for the sake of it. If they can't make them work and be interesting, then they're not worth it. Obviously there may be better options at the time, due to things like moveset, what would appeal better, easier licensing issues, etc. But I'd say Lark is a perfect example of someone who would be great to add, if they can create a good moveset. Pilotwings is actually not that obscure of a franchise either(and frankly, Lark is just as memorable as Ice Climbers, that is, not at all, which is what undermines the entire comparison trying to be made beforehand. They're both exact examples of the same situation. The only difference is Pilotwings was an actual popular game. Otherwise, no real difference beyond moveset potential being seen, and that's questionable).
 

TheLastJinjo

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There's a reason it doesn't apply for every character. But for some, yeah, it does. Ice Climbers is literally a pure case of "we saw a unique gameplay potential". They were not honestly memorable. Also, it's not like the whole idea is solely looking at the Famicom era here. Honestly, that wasn't even the point being made. Just that taking a non-memorable character and putting them in Smash is a great way to make them more well known. That was the point they were clearly making, and they're right. A lot of obscure characters get heavily known due to Smash, even when it comes to simply being nothing more than cameos/trophies. Smash is the best way to streamline characters to the world. Even Japanese characters. Lucas, Roy, Marth, they were extremely obscure in the US, and not really notorious there at all.

That said, I did miss some context, but I disagree with the idea that a game can't have a character worth adding just because they're obscure. That just feels like ignoring a potential option for the sake of it. If they can't make them work and be interesting, then they're not worth it. Obviously there may be better options at the time, due to things like moveset, what would appeal better, easier licensing issues, etc. But I'd say Lark is a perfect example of someone who would be great to add, if they can create a good moveset. Pilotwings is actually not that obscure of a franchise either(and frankly, Lark is just as memorable as Ice Climbers, that is, not at all, which is what undermines the entire comparison trying to be made beforehand. They're both exact examples of the same situation. The only difference is Pilotwings was an actual popular game. Otherwise, no real difference beyond moveset potential being seen, and that's questionable).
God, your posts are so long.

First of all, you said Ice Climbers had an "easy to make move set". You said it had nothing to do with them being interesting and now you're saying that they were added for being unique.

I also think you're being dishonest for implying that I'm against characters for no other reason then that they are obscure.
 
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PSIguy89

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Completely random and off topic but after seeing so many people List Ninten as a 3rd Mother rep....it made me think. What if we got Ana to rep the first Mother game? If they largely changed Ness and Lucas’s specials they could give Ana PK fire, thunder, freeze as three of her specials and reserve PK beam as her final smash! Then we have a character that actually uses those abilities! Just a thought.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Completely random and off topic but after seeing so many people List Ninten as a 3rd Mother rep....it made me think. What if we got Ana to rep the first Mother game? If they largely changed Ness and Lucas’s specials they could give Ana PK fire, thunder, freeze as three of her specials and reserve PK beam as her final smash! Then we have a character that actually uses those abilities! Just a thought.
I don't understand. Why Ana?
 

Bowserlick

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The next game should be Smash: Blade - Psychic - Space ships.

The characters are all Fire Emblem characters w/ the same specials vs. Earthbound characters w/ the same specials vs. Star Fox characters w/ the same specials.

There are 50 characters.
 
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TheLastJinjo

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Hopefully the character as alternate costumes thing can be explored more. A lot of people want Ninten and Impa who would probably work best as alts for Ness & Sheik. Leif as an alt of Marth and Ms. Pac-Man would be neat too.

Though, I REALLY wanna see Ninten as his own character. Equipped with Rising PK Flash, PK Beam, Rolling PK Thunder, and PK Vacuum.
 

NintenRob

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Hopefully the character as alternate costumes thing can be explored more. A lot of people want Ninten and Impa who would probably work best as alts for Ness & Sheik. Leif as an alt of Marth and Ms. Pac-Man would be neat too.

Though, I REALLY wanna see Ninten as his own character. Equipped with Rising PK Flash, PK Beam, Rolling PK Thunder, and PK Vacuum.
I'd like it too. Injustice 2 did it pretty well I'm pretty sure (although still not sure what I think of Vixen as a Cheetah alt though) I hope that game comes to Switch. Maybe we can get Superman as a guest character :troll:
 

PSIguy89

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Well I chose Ana because for one, she was the only party member who was psychic aside from Ninten, and used those famous PK moves. Plus a lot of people don’t like how similar Ninten looks to Ness, Ana offers much more of a contrast. (Those frying pans tho)
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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Ana, Paula, Ninten, Ness, and Lucas should all be costumes for the same character. Custom moves can switch out frying pans and yo-yos for bats and snakes.
 

SlickWylde

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There won't be any Smash announcements tomorrow. You already know what I'll do if I'm wrong. I'll even actually chew on a real shoe this time, no cop outs.
But I'm sure it will be a fun direct regardless. And I do feel we'll get some kind of Smash information at E3 this year. It seems like a good time! :)
 
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