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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Autumn ♫

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Does anyone else here think that Hyrule Warriors might be the first spinoff title to receive a playable character? I've always sort of felt like it was possible. I'm playing Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition right now, and it's crazy how much love went into this game. There's tons of content spanning many eras of Zelda. On top of that, they've remade the game twice now, with new upgrades coming to each version.

When discussing Zelda characters, people have only focused on the mainline characters. I could see Lana or Linkle happening. Everyone has a hard time deciding who the best possible Zelda newcomer is due to the nature of characters who are not Link/Zelda/Ganondorf. Lana and Linkle have both appeared in 3 titles which all have decent differences between them. Lana is one of the main characters, and Linkle now has her own full story as well. Both characters, especially Linkle, were well received by fans.

I understand thinking spinoff characters won't happen, but I'm saying this in the same thread that supports Waluigi and (sometimes) Daisy as characters to represent Mario spin offs. Nintendo clearly believes in the success of Hyrule Warriors, so why not have a character in Smash?
If we get someone from Hyrule Warriors, I hope it's Impa. I think her HW incarnation is the funnest we've had so far! Oh, and having Ganondorf's redesigned to look like his HW counterpart would be great too.
 

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If we get someone from Hyrule Warriors, I hope it's Impa. I think her HW incarnation is the funnest we've had so far! Oh, and having Ganondorf's redesigned to look like his HW counterpart would be great too.
I wouldn't personally expect a canon Zelda character to be the Hyrule Warriors character, unfortunately. I really like HW Impa as well, but I think they'd take one of the characters developed specifically for that game as a way to keep HW a separate canon from mainline Zelda.
 
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BlondeLombax

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There’s one way it’s a far better solution: it gives him a shot as a DLC character. Having such an overwhelming presence on Pyrosphere makes it impossible for Sakurai to pull an Alfonzo and have someone else appear in his place when Ridley is one of the playable fighters.

I’d much rather Ridley get only a trophy or a Smash 64 Zebes-style background appearance if it meant he had another chance.
Well, I'm not that into Metroid, but I keep remembering that the Ridley seen in Pyrosphere is a clone (not a moveset clone, an actual, genetically identical copy of the original). I feel like a compromise could potentially be made: address the clone as an alternative name (from what I recall, "Neo Ridley" seems to be the most popular) and use Ridley's classic design for him as a fighter.
Come to think of it, that could make a potentially killer event match, just having the original wale on the clone. It could be just as cathartic too, if fan opinion on Other M is taken into consideration.
 

Pakky

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If we get someone from Hyrule Warriors, I hope it's Impa. I think her HW incarnation is the funnest we've had so far! Oh, and having Ganondorf's redesigned to look like his HW counterpart would be great too.
That's what I'm saying. That's the best looking Ganondorf so much power and he has Ganon as a STAND.

I've been thinking though is there any real barrier for Midna?

I mean Sheik is from one game and she's a mainstay.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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That's what I'm saying. That's the best looking Ganondorf so much power and he has Ganon as a STAND.

I've been thinking though is there any real barrier for Midna?

I mean Sheik is from one game and she's a mainstay.
As I said earlier in regards to Impa, I doubt they'd use a HW appearance for a mainline character in order to not cross over the seperate canons. Ganondorf is the same issue.

Sheik got in as a unique gimmick for Zelda. Part of me doubts she ever would've gotten in had she not originally been part of Zelda.

Midna and Skull Kid sort of sit in the same place, but Skull Kid has had more canon appearances. Midna, outside of HW, only appeared in Twilight Princess with little easter eggs here and there in BotW. I really like Midna but I think her time has passed.
 

Pazzo.

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Tingle would be a good character for Smash.

In Tingle we Trust.
 

PeridotGX

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Does anyone else here think that Hyrule Warriors might be the first spinoff title to receive a playable character? I've always sort of felt like it was possible. I'm playing Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition right now, and it's crazy how much love went into this game. There's tons of content spanning many eras of Zelda. On top of that, they've remade the game twice now, with new upgrades coming to each version.

When discussing Zelda characters, people have only focused on the mainline characters. I could see Lana or Linkle happening. Everyone has a hard time deciding who the best possible Zelda newcomer is due to the nature of characters who are not Link/Zelda/Ganondorf. Lana and Linkle have both appeared in 3 titles which all have decent differences between them. Lana is one of the main characters, and Linkle now has her own full story as well. Both characters, especially Linkle, were well received by fans.

I understand thinking spinoff characters won't happen, but I'm saying this in the same thread that supports Waluigi and (sometimes) Daisy as characters to represent Mario spin offs. Nintendo clearly believes in the success of Hyrule Warriors, so why not have a character in Smash?
Does anyone else here think that Hyrule Warriors might be the first spinoff title to receive a playable character? I've always sort of felt like it was possible. I'm playing Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition right now, and it's crazy how much love went into this game. There's tons of content spanning many eras of Zelda. On top of that, they've remade the game twice now, with new upgrades coming to each version.

When discussing Zelda characters, people have only focused on the mainline characters. I could see Lana or Linkle happening. Everyone has a hard time deciding who the best possible Zelda newcomer is due to the nature of characters who are not Link/Zelda/Ganondorf. Lana and Linkle have both appeared in 3 titles which all have decent differences between them. Lana is one of the main characters, and Linkle now has her own full story as well. Both characters, especially Linkle, were well received by fans.

I understand thinking spinoff characters won't happen, but I'm saying this in the same thread that supports Waluigi and (sometimes) Daisy as characters to represent Mario spin offs. Nintendo clearly believes in the success of Hyrule Warriors, so why not have a character in Smash?
I don't think a character will happen, but I can definitely see music and an AT, maybe even a stage.

Speaking of, didn't Bandai develop Pokken? I think we should expect some stuff from there too.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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Tingle makes more sense than most other than Impa honestly.
Could you or someone else explain to me how Impa makes a significant amount of sense? Her appearances have no consistency, most recently being an old decrepit woman. She's a Sheikah, and everyone who argues for her wants her to be a ninja, which is literally what Sheik is. I don't understand the idea of Impa as a playable character, besides the cool appearance she had in Hyrule Warriors.
 

BlondeLombax

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Tingle would be a good character for Smash.

In Tingle we Trust.
Well, that wouldn't be such an issue if it weren't for the fact that most American fans DESPISE Tingle. That's easily his biggest roadblock; despite being adored in Japan and set parts of Europe, fans in the states hated him so much that when asked about localizing one of his own games, they voted "no" on it by a landslide.
I'm personally all for him, but so long as his hatedom retains its power, I don't think we'll be seeing Mr. Fairy anytime soon.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Wait like the race of monster or the one wearing the mask?
The race. The Masked version has one canon appearance. Skull Kid, the race, has at least 3.

Albeit, Tingle shows up even more. And Impa the most, since we're talking about reoccurring characters.

To note something else; Zelda only got in as a gimmick with Sheik. Sheik wouldn't have gotten in without Zelda or the other way around.

Beyond that, Shiek barely got in Brawl, due to them having concept art for TP. Without that, she would've been cut. Seeing as how Sakurai split Zelda/Sheik later on, I doubt he was that worried about keeping their transformation gimmick.
 

Freduardo

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If you want moveset potential for Ganon, make him a giant moblin looking guy with a trident.

He’s good at that.
 

MopedOfJustice

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Speaking of, didn't Bandai develop Pokken? I think we should expect some stuff from there too.
I disagree with a lot of the design choices made in that game, but Machamp is sick and he'd be really fun even though he'd also never get in.
I'm fairly certain that nothing from that game will effect the roster unless it's Decidueye.
 

Pakky

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The race. The Masked version has one canon appearance. Skull Kid, the race, has at least 3.
Yeah okay thank you that's what I thought, and you're right the monster race has three. While the Character wearing the mask has one.

If you want moveset potential for Ganon, make him a giant moblin looking guy with a trident.

He’s good at that.
I wonder would it be better to have multiple or one Ganon that has everything?

-Blades
-Magic
-A Trident
- Can summon big monster hands (like Bayo)

I disagree with a lot of the design choices made in that game, but Machamp is sick and he'd be really fun even though he'd also never get in.
I'm fairly certain that nothing from that game will effect the roster unless it's Decidueye.
Which objectively speaking I just can't see happening. Pokken is the only thing the owl has.

- Mimikyu is in everything including Pokken.
- Incenaroar is probably going to be Ash's lead on the tail end of the anime, additional anime appearances, and fought Charizard in that movie.
-Lycanroc was pushed in the anime and the games
- Let's go Pikachu and Eevee have the potential along with the movie to give us a new Eevee

Decidueye just has Pokken as its claim to fame. That's not bad but there are many others out in front of it for various reasons with the line having the potential to grow longer.
 
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Bradli Wartooth

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I don't think a character will happen, but I can definitely see music and an AT, maybe even a stage.

Speaking of, didn't Bandai develop Pokken? I think we should expect some stuff from there too.
I could definitely see music and possibly a stage from Pokken. I think the music for that game was way too good to pass up. Smash Switch will be a mistake without Magikarp Festival.

On the topic of a HW stage, I don't even know if that's too possible as the maps in that game are largely based on places that already exist in Legend of Zelda. There's a couple exceptions, but I don't think there's any point in having one of those over an actual canon LoZ stage.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I could definitely see music and possibly a stage from Pokken. I think the music for that game was way too good to pass up. Smash Switch will be a mistake without Magikarp Festival.

On the topic of a HW stage, I don't even know if that's too possible as the maps in that game are largely based on places that already exist in Legend of Zelda. There's a couple exceptions, but I don't think there's any point in having one of those over an actual LoZ stage.
Though it'd be neat to have a stage more inspired by HW's design instead of the regular ones in the main games. But honestly, it's only worth doing if we get an actual HW character(whether one of the original characters or a design based upon it as an update to someone, like Ganondorf).
 

Bradli Wartooth

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Though it'd be neat to have a stage more inspired by HW's design instead of the regular ones in the main games. But honestly, it's only worth doing if we get an actual HW character(whether one of the original characters or a design based upon it as an update to someone, like Ganondorf).
I just don't know how you'd clearly differentiate a stage between Hyrule Warriors and canon LoZ. I guess they could make those purple time gate things from Warriors pop up and change various elements about the stage to things that reflect different portions of LoZ history. That's how characters from the different eras appear in Warriors, after all.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I just don't know how you'd clearly differentiate a stage between Hyrule Warriors and canon LoZ. I guess they could make those purple time gate things from Warriors pop up and change various elements about the stage to things that reflect different portions of LoZ history. That's how characters from the different eras appear in Warriors, after all.
Pretty much. Plus, the enemies spawning could be the HW design too. As well as some bosses, like Manhandla. It generally appears in Dungeons, and I don't remember it appearing in HW in a regular dungeon? Or for a better example I know more about, King Dodongo. He doesn't appear outside of a volcano, but easily appears in a regular forest area. And so on.
 

YoshiandToad

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I just don't know how you'd clearly differentiate a stage between Hyrule Warriors and canon LoZ. I guess they could make those purple time gate things from Warriors pop up and change various elements about the stage to things that reflect different portions of LoZ history. That's how characters from the different eras appear in Warriors, after all.
Temple of Souls seems like a good one to me. Pictures and statues of Link everywhere, rose gardens, weird portals in the background...
 

Curious Villager

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Well, that wouldn't be such an issue if it weren't for the fact that most American fans DESPISE Tingle. That's easily his biggest roadblock; despite being adored in Japan and set parts of Europe, fans in the states hated him so much that when asked about localizing one of his own games, they voted "no" on it by a landslide.
I'm personally all for him, but so long as his hatedom retains its power, I don't think we'll be seeing Mr. Fairy anytime soon.
Is his hatebase still prevalent these day's? I know his hatebase is the reason why he hasn't reappeared in the mainline Zelda series other than some cameo's here and there, though nowadays I think he seems to be viewed more as a meme character more than anything, but maybe that's just me...
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Is his hatebase still prevalent these day's? I know his hatebase is the reason why he hasn't reappeared in the mainline Zelda series other than some cameo's here and there, though nowadays I think he seems to be viewed more as a meme character more than anything, but maybe that's just me...
Nowhere near as much, no. His addition to HW was met more with praise than hate, as it's his first playable appearance in the US, and he was also based upon his more popular appearance from MM. It's WW that started the hate for him, and considering his role in the game, it's not unjustified.
 

Curious Villager

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Nowhere near as much, no. His addition to HW was met more with praise than hate, as it's his first playable appearance in the US, and he was also based upon his more popular appearance from MM. It's WW that started the hate for him, and considering his role in the game, it's not unjustified.
Oh I see, though in WW HD I believe they heavily dumped him down to where he only requires to decipher a few maps rather than all of them as well as increasing the wallet size you can carry so perhaps that may also have helped in softening the blow on him?
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Oh I see, though in WW HD I believe they heavily dumped him down to where he only requires to decipher a few maps rather than all of them as well as increasing the wallet size you can carry so perhaps that may also have helped in softening the blow on him?
Possibly . The Tingle Bottle might've helped. I personally liked the Tingle Tuner, but yeah.
 

Pazzo.

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Well, that wouldn't be such an issue if it weren't for the fact that most American fans DESPISE Tingle. That's easily his biggest roadblock; despite being adored in Japan and set parts of Europe, fans in the states hated him so much that when asked about localizing one of his own games, they voted "no" on it by a landslide.
I'm personally all for him, but so long as his hatedom retains its power, I don't think we'll be seeing Mr. Fairy anytime soon.
Screw the Americans! Full speed ahead!

First we had Shulk time... then Witch Time... we want Tingle time.

Also, Waluigi Time. There are dozens of us!

I'd rather Waluigi than Tingle tbh.
 

BlondeLombax

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Nowhere near as much, no. His addition to HW was met more with praise than hate, as it's his first playable appearance in the US, and he was also based upon his more popular appearance from MM. It's WW that started the hate for him, and considering his role in the game, it's not unjustified.
Well, that's good to know. On the other hand, this is how I feel about learning these sorts of things:

Let the hype resume then. Tingle, Tingle, Kooloo-Limpah!
Also, Waluigi Time. There are dozens of us!
WAH! I couldn't agree more!
 
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Fenriraga

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Friendly reminder that Tingle has had multiple games of his own and they're all really, really good.

Like I hated that man for the longest time, as most do, but when I got around to Rosy Rupee Land and more recently Balloon Trip of Love, I REALLY gained some admiration for the guy. I would not object in the slightest if he made it into Smash.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Friendly reminder that Tingle has had multiple games of his own and they're all really, really good.

Like I hated that man for the longest time, as most do, but when I got around to Rosy Rupee Land and more recently Balloon Trip of Love, you REALLY gain some admiration for the guy. I would not object in the slightest if he made it into Smash.
Honestly, if they'd just release all the games in every region, it would boost fan support quite a bit. Weird part is, the games might not sell all that well due to some pointless hatred, but him being in Smash might be received better since it's just one of many characters. It's rare for people to refuse to buy a game simply because it has one character they don't like. Obviously if most of the roster is unfavorable to them, it makes sense not to get the game. But there's something always alluring with Smash, even if the roster isn't one's favorite. Modes, items, music, stages, etc.
 

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I’ve been hoping to get playable Tingle in Smash since the early days of Smash 4. I think he would do a really good job of representing the “weird” part of Zelda, and he’s plenty iconic... for better or worse :laugh:

He could even represent his own series with a Rupee as the icon. Three games under his belt, I think that’s enough for his own classification, if they wanted it.
 

Pazzo.

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Well, that's good to know. On the other hand, this is how I feel about learning these sorts of things:

Let the hype resume then. Tingle, Tingle, Kooloo-Limpah!

WAH! I couldn't agree more!
A brother in WAAAA-arms! Sakurai can't ignore us forever!

 

Icedragonadam

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Did any new rumours come out? I need something to wash the taste of that horrible looking Thundercats GO reboot.
 

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Tingle? I wouldn't say I support him, but I wouldn't mind his inclusion. I cant see him happening though, he hasn't had much relevancy recently.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Does anyone else here think that Hyrule Warriors might be the first spinoff title to receive a playable character? I've always sort of felt like it was possible. I'm playing Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition right now, and it's crazy how much love went into this game. There's tons of content spanning many eras of Zelda. On top of that, they've remade the game twice now, with new upgrades coming to each version.

When discussing Zelda characters, people have only focused on the mainline characters. I could see Lana or Linkle happening. Everyone has a hard time deciding who the best possible Zelda newcomer is due to the nature of characters who are not Link/Zelda/Ganondorf. Lana and Linkle have both appeared in 3 titles which all have decent differences between them. Lana is one of the main characters, and Linkle now has her own full story as well. Both characters, especially Linkle, were well received by fans.

I understand thinking spinoff characters won't happen, but I'm saying this in the same thread that supports Waluigi and (sometimes) Daisy as characters to represent Mario spin offs. Nintendo clearly believes in the success of Hyrule Warriors, so why not have a character in Smash?
Lana would honestly make a very interesting character, being a magic user able to create and manipulate those blocks. Although if anyone from Hyrule Warriors were to get in I'd prefer that incarnation of Impa, both her weapons in that game were awesome, if they could make a moveset using both that'd be cool.
 

blackghost

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I'd actually like to see more "Mega Man" and "Greninja" characters. I feel like Sakurai went way overboard with the gimmicks in Smash 4. There was Luma, Little Mac's power meter, Palutena's customizable moveset, Miis, Robin's tomes, Monado Arts, Ryu's directional inputs, Limit Break, and the hot mess Bayo and her magic guns ended up being.

Not every character needs a flashy gimmick to be unique. Just make a character who feels and plays differently from everyone else and that's good enough for me.
Think you should separate gimmick from character mechanic. Because your examples are not.gimmicks. they are unique character traits that make charavters feel and play u uniquely. If you truly want more variety between characters you sjould want unique traits for them. Characters dont just magically play different they need new mechanics.

Ryu inputs, Robin tome usage, miis being customizable, and limit break are all great carryovers from a characters source game into smash. Ryu using imputs was brilliant. People loves that. Fgc people loved it it was natural fpr them and it honors ryu legacy. Limit break is a central mechnic in 7 it shoupd be there. Mois are buolt to be cistomizable that was thie entire purpose to be avatars both in smash and wii.


Also still love the casual shade bayo gets. Of all the characters with carries over mechnics bayo is easily the most toned down. She has one weapon set, her combos (unlike ryu) are structured the same, and witch time doesnt maintain all its utility like clouds limit does.
Bottom line i expect new charcters to have new mechanics as well most of the ones in 4 did.
 
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MopedOfJustice

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Think you should separate gimmick from character mechanic. Because your examples are not.gimmicks. they are unique character traits that make charavters feel and play u uniquely. If you truly want more variety between characters you sjould want unique traits for them. Characters dont just magically play different they need new mechanics.
All of them other than what was mentioned for Bayo are gimmicks, and no they aren't necessary for making a character that plays differently. If you have an adequately wide design space, you can make every character from the same set of mechanics and have them all work differently. The easiest example here is Fox's lasers versus Falco's in Melee. No new mechanic was added to Falco's, but it isn't used the same way at all. Another example is Roy's hitboxes compared to Marth's. One makes you keep your opponent at a distance to hit the hardest, the other is closer-quarters with the option of weaker hits from further away.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Think you should separate gimmick from character mechanic. Because your examples are not.gimmicks. they are unique character traits that make charavters feel and play u uniquely. If you truly want more variety between characters you sjould want unique traits for them. Characters dont just magically play different they need new mechanics.
To clarify, gimmick and mechanic are often used interchangeably here. Moreso for characters than anything else.

I get why gimmick isn't liked, as it sounds negative, but it's not inaccurate anyway. With how Smash is developed, mechanics can refer to things beyond characters, as well as stuff that isn't character-specific. Like Air Dodging is a mechanic that anyone can use. Whereas Shulk's Monado Arts is his "gimmick". Gimmicks are extremely specific to something. Mechanics are not inherently like that, being a broader term. Make sense?

Not saying either word is bad, or one should inherently used more than the other, just one has a literally more specific meaning by design.
 

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Lana would honestly make a very interesting character, being a magic user able to create and manipulate those blocks. Although if anyone from Hyrule Warriors were to get in I'd prefer that incarnation of Impa, both her weapons in that game were awesome, if they could make a moveset using both that'd be cool.
I completely understand why people want HW Impa. Heck, her role in HW is probably more significant to the game than Impa's role in any other game. However as I said earlier, I just don't forsee a canon Zelda character being implemented to Smash using their non-canon appearance. And that goes for any characters non-canon vs canon appearances, not just Zelda.

The reasons I think Lana or Linkle would both be valid considerations from Hyrule Warriors is because that's the only game they're from. They've never appeared in a different Zelda game, so Hyrule Warriors is their canon.
 

SuperSmashStephen

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I know I’m probably opening a can of worms here, but what about a mobile rep. Nintendo seems to be dedicated to pushing their mobile games. Fire Emblem Heroes has done extremely well, and Dragalia Lost is a new IP entirely.

I don’t see it happening myself, but maybe? Thoughts?
 

Tree Gelbman

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I just thought of another hurdle about Sora. At least West side. I don't know how his voice work is handled in the East, but in America he's voiced by Haley Joel Osment.

I think it'd be a lot of work for Nintendo to have to call up a Hollywood actor to come record a few lines and grunts for Smash Brothers.

Is Sora's voice actor in the west a famous Japanese actor like in America or nah?
 
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