Mr. Johan
Smash Hero
Disclosure: This thread is heavily inspired by Dekar173's old Doubles Comprehensive Guide in the Brawl Competitive Discussion from 2010, and is where I derived some aspects of this thread’s intent. Credit and inspiration apply here: https://smashboards.com/threads/doubles-and-you-a-comprehensive-guide-to-2v2s.260661/
With a new Tier List out, we have a fresh idea on how some characters compete in the Singles meta. But Doubles is an entirely different meta. In fact, some people think Doubles is the future for Smash 4 in itself. For as much a character's weaknesses are mitigated by having a teammate, a character's strengths are also potentially a liability in the chaos of 4 players on screen.
The purpose of this thread is for the community to provide an overview of on how a character's qualities correlate in doubles, and what that character does best at in teams play. Rating them into tiers is not the endgoal right now – we’ve seen how potent Cloud + character and double Mario are in doubles. Finding what a character’s purpose in doubles is the primary goal right now. With those in mind, it can then be used to try to find optimal team strategies with these characters, and find the best characters these characters can team up with and reap the maximum benefit.
Just as well, Interference is important to consider. If a character’s tools run a risk of ruining a teammate’s combo string or survivability, then it has to be considered. This can include attacks being too large for someone to properly avoid, projectiles capable of hitting teammates easily on accident, etc.
Example:
For an idea on how a character would look with these archetypes in mind, let’s use Robin as an example. My own personal opinion, of course:
- Offensive Zoner
Carry – 4/10
Stock Tank – 5/10
Sweeper – 9/10
Damage Racker – 8/10
Offensive Support, Slight Gimmick
Liable Interference
Robin has the tools necessary to play Damage Racker and Sweeper easily. His aerials do 10%+ and combo into and from other moves, and his grab KO combo can start working around 85%. Robin’s quick and large aerials, along with Thunder and Elthunder, allow him to zone efficiently in doubles. Arcthunder helps with the speed issue when it comes to sweeping, putting opponents in a tough spot between this move and Robin’s teammate, giving him the opportunity come in and get his KO from there.
Robin’s kit also lets him play offensive support. Levin Fair sends people at good angles for followups and is a followup tool itself, and Uair can be used as a combo KO finisher. The teammate can also be the combo finisher thanks to Arcthunder and Arcfire locking opponents in place, giving them time to align themselves for the final hit. Also, Robin has the benefit of a % recovery move in the form of a command grab. Nosferatu also forces an air release, leading to punishment from the teammate with the right tools if the situation allows it. Though gimmicky, Nosferatu can also be used on a low-percent teammate when they have the chance, and allow Robin to recover upwards of 40% in a single go. Having a Little Mac, Cloud, or Lucario teammate for this gimmick aids both teammates.
Robin does require babysitting and a teammate that knows about his projectiles, however. It can be easy for Robin to accidentally hit his partner with a spell, allowing for the opposing team to use their own combo finishers, so Robin needs to use his spells smartly, and have someone who can avoid the spells or work around them. Robin also caves under close pressure, so his partner needs to be ready to come in case Robin gets overwhelmed. He is also lacking in ways to support his teammate defensively. Robin’s slow ground speed will always be a hindrance. Every aerial bar Nair is a killing move, so attempts to save his partner in the air can backfire if the spacing is wrong. Thunder is a decent interruptor, but not anything noteworthy, and while Elwind can help his teammate in recovering with the upward-knockback, Robin’s now in helpless and needs to be immediately supported.
Key Moves:
Levin Fair
Levin Bair
Levin Uair
Discarded items
Arcthunder
Thunder
Elthunder
Offensive support:
Levin Fair
Arcthunder
Arcfire
Fthrow/Dthrow
(NOTE: You are not restricted to making writeups like this example. If you don't want to adhere to the numbering and role system, that's fine. This is just a way to cleanly display the qualities and shortcomings of a character in a format that be used comparatively to others. Just ensure your writeup and commentary still display the strengths and weaknesses of the character in doubles.)
In order to keep focus on a group of characters at a time so as to get the best discussion for them possible, I intend to go through each tier in Version 2.0 of the current Smash 4 tier list per week. So, this week, from 8/24-9/1, is dedicated to the current top seven characters of the Singles meta:
Please keep all doubles discussion primarily on these seven characters for this week. (It is fine to give insight on other characters during the week, just don't make the discussion revolve around them. Using other characters as a point of reference or as ideas for doubles partners is accepted). Next Wednesday, on 8/31, A tier characters will be discussed.
Schedule:
With a new Tier List out, we have a fresh idea on how some characters compete in the Singles meta. But Doubles is an entirely different meta. In fact, some people think Doubles is the future for Smash 4 in itself. For as much a character's weaknesses are mitigated by having a teammate, a character's strengths are also potentially a liability in the chaos of 4 players on screen.
The purpose of this thread is for the community to provide an overview of on how a character's qualities correlate in doubles, and what that character does best at in teams play. Rating them into tiers is not the endgoal right now – we’ve seen how potent Cloud + character and double Mario are in doubles. Finding what a character’s purpose in doubles is the primary goal right now. With those in mind, it can then be used to try to find optimal team strategies with these characters, and find the best characters these characters can team up with and reap the maximum benefit.
Roles:
For Doubles, it’s important to consider what roles a character can play in a team. With the right teammate, a character’s shortcomings in one particular area can be circumvented, allowing for the strengths of the character to come to light. With that in mind, here are four (or five, given your perspective) roles to consider in Smash 4 doubles.
Carry:
A slightly ambiguous term, Carrying correlates to how well a character operates in a 2v1 format. This is not wholly indicative on how well a character is off when his teammate has been eliminated; this trait also indicates how well a character can play the role of bodyguard if his partner either wants to get something charged or set up, is caught in a bad pressure predicament, or is trying to recover back from a bad spot, typically offstage.
Things to look for in a Carry character:
Things to look for in a Carry character:
- Do the 1v1s traits of this character translate well into Doubles?
- Can this character reliably make a 2v1 comeback?
- Can this character function as a wall well enough for his partner to regain footing and get back to neutral?
- Can a partner’s setup/long term strategies be aided by this character’s defensive and offensive capabilities?
Stock Tank:
This type of character is great at keeping their stocks around, and keeping them safe from being taken away. Not just his own stocks, but his partners’ too. If you keep your stocks safe, your opponents will be hard-pressed to get any momentum going anywhere.
Things to look for in a Stock Tank character:
Things to look for in a Stock Tank character:
- Is this character heavy enough and versatile enough to keep himself going well into the high percentages?
- Is this character fast enough and safe enough to not even worry about those high percentages in the first place?
- Does this character have quick, interrupting moves to keep his partner alive and free from dangerous KO combo setups?
- Can this character reliably save his partner from being spiked or gimped?
- Is this character’s recovery flexible enough that being offstage is not a perilous spot in doubles?
- Does the character have a unique quality that can mitigate stock risk without compromising his overall gameplan?
Sweeper/Punisher:
These guys have one clear purpose: Getting the KO as fast and early as possible. The quicker you take a stock from a team, the likelier that team will be forced to Share Stock later down the match, heavily tipping the momentum physically and psychologically to your favor.
Things to look for in a Sweeper:
Things to look for in a Sweeper:
- Can this character keep himself safe enough in a 2v2 format to capitalize off one misspaced move?
- Does this character have a quick and early KO move or combo that risks minimal interruption?
- Can this character potently abuse rage mechanics and get opponents’ stocks incredibly quick?
- How potent is their gimping and spiking ability?
Damage Racker:
Can be seen as the opposite to the Sweeper, though not completely antithetical, the Damage Racker is someone who can get opponents from 0-80 in a heartbeat. These guys want their enemies in KO range the second they are off the revival platform, and they have the means to do it.
Things to look for in a Damage Racker:
Things to look for in a Damage Racker:
- Does this character have an extensive combo game that can be adjusted to not risk interruption when needed?
- Is this character’s damage output on singular attacks high enough that one or two hits can swiftly shift momentum?
- Are this character’s ledgeguarding and offstage tools reliable enough to rack up damage in the most dangerous place in the match?
- Does this character have tools designed to feed off and add onto team combos?
Support:
Related to the archetypes above also is how well of a support role the character can perform. Granted, support can be surmised based on how well they are in the above roles – A good Carry character will be able to provide decent Defensive Support – but I feel it’s important to differentiate between Offensive Support and Defensive Support when applicable.
Just as well, Interference is important to consider. If a character’s tools run a risk of ruining a teammate’s combo string or survivability, then it has to be considered. This can include attacks being too large for someone to properly avoid, projectiles capable of hitting teammates easily on accident, etc.
Example:
For an idea on how a character would look with these archetypes in mind, let’s use Robin as an example. My own personal opinion, of course:
- Offensive ZonerCarry – 4/10
Stock Tank – 5/10
Sweeper – 9/10
Damage Racker – 8/10
Offensive Support, Slight Gimmick
Liable Interference
Robin has the tools necessary to play Damage Racker and Sweeper easily. His aerials do 10%+ and combo into and from other moves, and his grab KO combo can start working around 85%. Robin’s quick and large aerials, along with Thunder and Elthunder, allow him to zone efficiently in doubles. Arcthunder helps with the speed issue when it comes to sweeping, putting opponents in a tough spot between this move and Robin’s teammate, giving him the opportunity come in and get his KO from there.
Robin’s kit also lets him play offensive support. Levin Fair sends people at good angles for followups and is a followup tool itself, and Uair can be used as a combo KO finisher. The teammate can also be the combo finisher thanks to Arcthunder and Arcfire locking opponents in place, giving them time to align themselves for the final hit. Also, Robin has the benefit of a % recovery move in the form of a command grab. Nosferatu also forces an air release, leading to punishment from the teammate with the right tools if the situation allows it. Though gimmicky, Nosferatu can also be used on a low-percent teammate when they have the chance, and allow Robin to recover upwards of 40% in a single go. Having a Little Mac, Cloud, or Lucario teammate for this gimmick aids both teammates.
Robin does require babysitting and a teammate that knows about his projectiles, however. It can be easy for Robin to accidentally hit his partner with a spell, allowing for the opposing team to use their own combo finishers, so Robin needs to use his spells smartly, and have someone who can avoid the spells or work around them. Robin also caves under close pressure, so his partner needs to be ready to come in case Robin gets overwhelmed. He is also lacking in ways to support his teammate defensively. Robin’s slow ground speed will always be a hindrance. Every aerial bar Nair is a killing move, so attempts to save his partner in the air can backfire if the spacing is wrong. Thunder is a decent interruptor, but not anything noteworthy, and while Elwind can help his teammate in recovering with the upward-knockback, Robin’s now in helpless and needs to be immediately supported.
Key Moves:
Levin Fair
Levin Bair
Levin Uair
Discarded items
Arcthunder
Thunder
Elthunder
Offensive support:
Levin Fair
Arcthunder
Arcfire
Fthrow/Dthrow
(NOTE: You are not restricted to making writeups like this example. If you don't want to adhere to the numbering and role system, that's fine. This is just a way to cleanly display the qualities and shortcomings of a character in a format that be used comparatively to others. Just ensure your writeup and commentary still display the strengths and weaknesses of the character in doubles.)
Scheduling
In order to keep focus on a group of characters at a time so as to get the best discussion for them possible, I intend to go through each tier in Version 2.0 of the current Smash 4 tier list per week. So, this week, from 8/24-9/1, is dedicated to the current top seven characters of the Singles meta:
Please keep all doubles discussion primarily on these seven characters for this week. (It is fine to give insight on other characters during the week, just don't make the discussion revolve around them. Using other characters as a point of reference or as ideas for doubles partners is accepted). Next Wednesday, on 8/31, A tier characters will be discussed.
Schedule:
8/24-8/30 – S tier characters
8/31-9/6 – A tier characters
9/7-9/13 – B tier characters
9/14-9/20 – C tier characters
9/21-9/27 – D tier characters
9/28 – 10/4 – E tier characters
10/5-10/11 – F tier characters
10/12 – 10/18 – G tier characters
10/19 – 10/25 – H tier characters
8/31-9/6 – A tier characters
9/7-9/13 – B tier characters
9/14-9/20 – C tier characters
9/21-9/27 – D tier characters
9/28 – 10/4 – E tier characters
10/5-10/11 – F tier characters
10/12 – 10/18 – G tier characters
10/19 – 10/25 – H tier characters
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