Smash Bros and the Martial Arts

[Lyserdon]

First off, let me say hello and I'm happy to be a member of this community after many years of browsing all the great content constantly being generated.

I'm currently trying to decide on a martial art to practice. Most importantly I'm looking to get fit and learn to defend myself.

But beyond that, I had a thought. Can my skills, preferences, or styles in Smash Bros inform my decision at all? Obviously I'm not looking for root vegetable based anti mugger strategies or the martial art that most incorporates wavedashing. I don't want to learn which strikes have the best knockback, and I don't want the frame data on the punch about to land on my face. But as I've begun to play with a more studious, mindful focus, and during my preliminary research on different martial arts styles, I couldn't help but notice a lot of the same concepts coming up, which makes sense, as it is fighting game.

So I guess the purpose of this thread is to discuss whether playing Smash in general or any specific elements of one's game are useful to choosing a martial art in terms of ease of learning, potential for mastery, or just enjoyment.

 

[Cyn]

Pick a martial art and stick with it, then wait for the DLC.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I remember reading about someone on one forum who won a local karate tournament by imitating 's jab combo.

's Ftilt is practical as well, as are a number of and 's standard attacks. They tend to have their fighting styles more grounded in reality. Pay close attention to how their arms and legs are in sync with each other.

While it can be tempting, do not try to imitate . They work and look cool in a video game, but what they do are way too fancy to be of any real world use.

If you're determined to develop a real fighting style based on Smash, use common sense. If a move takes you into the air at all, don't use it. If it leaves you with a gaping vulnerability, don't use it. If you think you'll wind up hurting yourself by trying it, don't use it.

 

[Poppy JR.]

I think Little Mac is the most realistic character in Smash Bros., in terms of fighting style. You could try doing some Mac-esque boxing techniques.

 

[M.C.Jeducation]

I'd definitely take a few fighting tips from Falco, stand far away from your opponent and shoot them. That being said I don't think short hops would be necessary between shots in real life.

 

[Gutei]

You are literally going to find zero inspiration from this game, friend. Sorry to disappoint you. As detailed above, you would probably get a little bit from Mac's boxing... But that's boxing. Other than learning what a punch looks like, you're not going to get anything.

If you're interested, I'm sure there's a vast amount of info out there on the internet. I would suggest starting with something simple like kickboxing, judo, or just straight-up karate. I would advise against taekwondo, as most schools I have seen are very poor quality and offer a "fast track" to black belt with little actual training. If you need to be particularly inspired, look up some muay thai, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, aikido, capoeira, or others. I met someone who once trained in drunken fist and he could beat me miserably. Just know you absolutely need to start small - you won't be roundhouse kicking anyone's face in the next year or so. Learn some aerobic and muscular endurance first through calisthenics, then work your way into it. And get a teacher; it'll hurt you otherwise.

If you're looking for inspiration from games, some of the CQC techniques used in Metal Gear Solid are solid (heh), and probs some basic stuff in Punch Out!!! for boxing, but you won't find too much in fighting games (but I don't have a lot of experience with those).

Source: 12 years of mixed martial art practice

 

[srn347]

As someone who fences and plays smash, both quite often, I've found that while the two don't have much in terms of explicit mechanics in common (the physics are obviously quite different), a lot of the general heuristics such as "don't be predictable" and "work on executing your techniques more efficiently" are shared between the two. Though admittedly this could be applied to practically any martial art (or fighting game).

 

[Lyserdon]

Thanks everyone for your input. While I think it would be hilarious to study character movements and apply them to real life (as well as super impressive if you pulled it off), I think srn347 comes closest to what I was getting at, except maybe one step further.

Just to clarify completely, I would like to study a real martial art, taking classes from a well regarded instructor. The only inspiration I would like to take from Smash is to help me choose a style I'd be suited for. For instance, someone who grabs heavily might enjoy Judo, an aggressive spacie player might like a discipline focusing on speed and strikes. Maybe a defensive/trapping player would do well with aikido.

Or maybe none of that has to do with anything and I'm just talking out my ass, haha.

 

[Gutei]

So you're looking more at concepts than actual styles. Ahhhhhh gotcha gotcha.

Really, the style you pick isn't about what you like, but what your body can physically do. Like how I'm so much better at judo and muay thai because I have a very strong base and I'm good at using my leverage to take down an opponent. Jeet kun do is definitely NOT something I could do. However, it does come down to preference as well. No matter how strong your base is if you don't understand/want to learn how to do something. Watch some videos; see what you like.

 

[Lyserdon]

I appreciate the advice Gutei, even if the ridiculous part of my brain really wants to apply *something* from Smash to martial arts, but I guess that's where srn347's observations come in.

Now to break out the video camera and start looking at my frame data...

 

[Gutei]

If you ever want specific help, I took the martial arts stuff I learned way back when and started applying it into condensed workouts since I had to stop going because of time and money. About 30-40 mins a day 9 or 10 days every two weeks and I've dropped 20lbs in five months and built some good lean muscle.

By the way, this may help you:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...sDVSSDupq4/w920-h1301/solid-snake-workout.jpg

 

[1DeadRabbit]

*Deep breath*

@ Gutei 's points are pretty dead-on. Smash Bros does near nothing to help train techniques. But I don't think you're wrong to think that a game that involves a lot of situational awareness and timing can relate to real martial arts.

I've considered using Smash Bros to help with my sparring, specifically my Taekwondo sparring (I also take Hapkido). Sparring is like a chess match, where you try to anticipate your opponent's next move while calculating your own. Having a game plan is important. Identifying your opponent's weakness is important. Being able to land multiple kicks (or combos) is important. And being able to switch up your strategy is important, because your next opponent is sitting there on the sidelines, absorbing everything you do.

Competitive Smash Bros is exactly the same. @ srn347 touched on this a little bit, but it does go deeper. It teaches you how to think on your toes, rather than just react.

Anyway, I hope you find an artform to your liking! Sorry if I sort of just repeated the sentiments of everyone here.

 

[Lyserdon]

@ Gutei -
I'd love to see some of your workouts as I do a lot of home exercise and I'm trying to drop weight and build muscle. I do still plan on finding a class for a particular style though to make sure I develop proper form for whatever I learn as well as learning how to properly defend myself.

@ 1DeadRabbit -
I think that what you're saying is kind of how I came up with this idea in the first place. I've been trying like hell lately to up my smash game, reading tons about the different strategies and concepts that need to be in your head to play successfully. Spacing, baiting, grab game, setups, mindgames, stage control, recovery, etc. I used to play with sort of a mindless aggression, but all of the tactical considerations are finally starting to sink into my brain. And as I've been reading aboit different martial arts, I think about how the same things all apply, even if you can't directly apply the execution of them. Sparring does seem to be the area where it would most help to "think smash" so to speak, so you've given me some stuff to think about.

 

[Octavium]

You can't really use smash as a basis for learning martial arts, smash has a tendency to be flashy and colorful, and most of these ''flashy'' techniques are either inaplicable or seriously impractical in any real life situation.

The characters that feel more realistic as fighters to me are:

---Little Mac---
Stance: Realistic boxing stance (Hands up protecting face, Chin tucked in to avoid being uppercut)

Jab: Mostly Realistic(Jab>Straight>Uppercut or Flurry of jabs&straights into big uppercut)
F-tilt: Realistic (Strong Jab + Strong Straight)
U-tilt: Impractical (Weird Uppercut, does a large awkward movement, no power, takes to long to get back into stance)
D-tilt: Impractical but funny (Crounching down to hit your opponent in the shins ain't very useful)

F-smash: Kinda Impractical (Learns back brings back his fist far then releases it into a strong Straight, leaning back doesn't give you much power and its practically telling your opponent when you plan on hitting them)
D-smash: You'd probably look hilarious trying to replicate that.
U-smash: Kinda Impractical (Similar to F-smash leaning down won't give you any extra power, also the uppercut movement is large and takes awhile to get back into stance)

Dash: Kinda Practical (Keeps his head down while dashing in to avoid his face from getting hit, weak balance when dashing)
Dash Attack: Meh (Leaps while punching in a downward motion with his momentum, useful for breaking your hand on your opponents skull, but could potential be practical for breaking a clavicle.)

---Captain Falcon---
Stance: Kinda Practical (Spread legs for tough foundation, stands tall, arms not very well positioned for blocking)

Jab: Mostly realistic(Jab>Straight>Knee or Flurry of Straights into a front hand uppercut)

F-tilt: Realistic (Roundhouse, pivots feet, leans back, Hip muscles kinda feel left out of it, still great for a game)
U-tilt: Realistic (Circular movement into axe kick, a bit less practical than a traditional axe kick)
D-tilt: Realistic? (Not knowledgeable in leg sweeps so I can't judge, looks fine though)

F-smash: Mostly Realistic (Nice elbow strike, nice lower body movement, not very good to lean back)
U-smash: Realistic (Jumping Double slap kick to the face, looks nice)
D-smash: Kinda Practical (Does a low roundhouse to the thigh, then proceeds to back kick the knee joint from behind, leans very badly before kicking)

Dash: Realistic (Does a nice sprint)
Dash Attack: Realistic (Does a shoulder bash)

Fair: Realistic (Apparently its a thing, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knee_(strike)#Flying , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEJYo6sH5OQ Top comment is Cptn Falcon reference XD )
Bair: Impractical (A back hand strike while hitting behind using your shoulder muscles seems kinda odd)
Uair: Impractical (Kind of a weird version of the street fighter flash kick, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOPUU8YNRbY )
Dair: Impractical (As cool as it looks ingame, you'd look pretty silly trying this out)
Nair: Realistic? (Pretty sure there's a similar looking kick that works really well in real life)



---Zero Suit Samus---
Stance: Practical (Knees slightly bent, legs are slightly spread, lightly bouncing to keep her calf muscles warm, hands holding the paralyser)

Jab: Mostly Impractical (Jab[Side of the hand...?], she exposes the back of her front leg when jabbing, Jab>Hook>ElbowStrike)

F-tilt: Realistic (Nice roundhouse, leans more backwards than captain, pivots feet, seems to have a bit of trouble finishing the spin, but I can't blame her.... she has heels)
U-tilt: Impractical (Looks good, but would honestly be completely useless in RL)
D-tilt: Realistic? (Still unsure about legsweeps, looks better than Captain Falcon's though)

F-smash: Realistic (Roundhouse to the ribs>lands on kicking leg>spinning back kick [Leans a bit much backwards on last kick])
U-smash: Huh? (Whip attack, can't judge)
D-smash: Heh? (Paralyser ground shot, she seems to be bracing herself)

Dash: Realistic (Looks like a good sprint, any inaccuracies could be linked to her heels)
Dash attack: Realistic (A flying knee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knee_(strike)#Flying )

Fair: Realistic? (Pretty sure there's a similar looking kick that works really well in real life, like captain's Nair)
Bair: Realistic ( Jumping spinning heel kick to the ribs... oww.)
Uair: Impractical (Kind of an wierd version of the street fighter flash kick, unlike Captain's this might not be possible)
Dair: Impractical (Like possibly all Dairs)
Nair: Kinda Practical? (Does a full 360 spin while releasing her whip, seems useless but I wouldn't enjoy getting hit by an electric whip)

 

[Octavium]

If you don`t know which Martial Arts to pick, here are some suggestions:

For deh stylez (Martial Arts that can help with defending yourself, but not ideal for fighting sports)

(ITF) Taekwondo: I prefer ITF over WTF since it keeps the roots of the art istead of sacrificing power for extra speed to score points. The training for the most part seem to be pretty intense, being a traditional art usually means it carries a philosophy for discipline and persistance.

(WTF) Taekwondo: Unlike ITF, this taekwondo is built upon the foundation of Olympic sparring, focuses on speed and performance for the Olympic ruleset, discipline seems to be weak for the most part. And from my experiences so far, the training isn`t particularly hard(depends on your teacher). There is better martial arts for actual fighting, since the Taekwondo sparring rules don't mimic realistic fighting at all.

Kyokushin Karate: The art I currently train in, the karate with the most dynamic kicking since it was built on early foundations of early taekwondo before WWII, extremely disciplined and philosophy of continuous improvement both mentally and physically at all cost, they will always try to push you to your limit just so you get the chance to break it. The training can reach near horrific levels, but so far its been seriously worth it. Sparring is similar to kickboxing, no pads are used, allowed kicks to the head, but not punching to the face(without gloves).

Shotokan Karate: Another karate that is considered good and offensive, however it seems much more static than Kyokushin, since its built on ''one-step sparring'', art about mixing up your moves and countering whatever your opponent throws at you, i'm unsure about the training difficulty nor have I done any Shotokan before.

Aikido: Art about using your opponent's momentum against himself, follows a philosophy that no one should be hurt in a fight, multiple techniques are taught to disarm the opponent, you don't have to worry about getting hurt when training in this. Unsure of the training difficulty.

Judo: Art of stand-up grappling, utilizes ways to throw opponents on the floor with minimum use of muscles. That's all I know about it, but its very popular.

Capoeira: An art that hides its striking by making them look like harmless movements, can be deadly if the opponent knows nothing about it. A martial arts mostly based on dancing and controlling your center of gravity to kick out of many different positions.


For the sport of fighting (Martial Arts based completely on fighting)

Muay Thai: Similar to boxing, utilises kicking, knee strikes, elbow strikes and all basic punching techniques. Kicking in this sport has a much more circular motion which makes it generally slower but also much stronger.(It doesn't matter if your oponent's reflexes are fast enough to block, if the kick can break his arm). Training difficulty depends on how competitive the gym is.

Boxing: Awesome art that has developed alot in technique since it was created, fun and easy to learn techniques and very hard to master, no need to have flexible legs(for kicking). Training difficulty depends on how competitive the gym is.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: Very practical ground fighting martial arts, shares similarities to wrestling, its very hard to master, it takes years and years to become good at it, but is very good for self defence and very deadly when mastered. (you should be fine unless your opponent has a knife), I'm unsure how Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu competition works. (I have a particular grudge against BJJ for making UFC look like lovemaking) training involves a lot of technique, but usually its only physically demanding when sparring good opponents.

Mixed Martial Arts: Utilizes the best of the martial arts world in hopes of developing the most deadly fighting style for cage/ring fighting. Rules aren't as limiting as most other fighting sports. Uses alot of Muay Thai, brazilian Jiu-jitsu and wrestling as its basis. Training difficulty depends on how competitive the gym is.

 

[Gutei]

---Captain Falcon---

I think it fun to point out that Falcon is a street fighter - meaning he DOES use mixed martial arts as his style - but "the knee" is actually a very specific technique used in muay thai fighting. It makes me think that someone in early development was a big Gracie/Tsuruta/MMA fan. Or just knew that people get rekt with knees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knee_(strike)#Flying

 

[Octavium]

Snip

Damn that is sick as hell, I didn't know that was a thing. Thanks!

 

[Lyserdon]

That was a fascinating analysis of the characters, @ Octavium . And that's awesome that the flying knee is actually a technique haha. Your description of styles was very helpful too. Gave me lots to think about.

 

[Octavium]

@ Lyserdon
Hopefully you find something you like, most of the time people don't join martial arts because they're afraid of the pain involved, and also they don't want to be injured.

But you've got nothing to worry about, if you don't want to spar, you usually won't need to and if you do, its going to be very light and relaxed for practice. You'l have to make it clear that you don't want any rough sparring though. You can practice martial arts as a way to get in shape, and after a few years, if you feel ready, you could probably try some more serious sparring.

You don't need to fight to learn some cool techniques though.

 

[NuttiGeeza]

First off, let me say hello and I'm happy to be a member of this community after many years of browsing all the great content constantly being generated.

I'm currently trying to decide on a martial art to practice. Most importantly I'm looking to get fit and learn to defend myself.

But beyond that, I had a thought. Can my skills, preferences, or styles in Smash Bros inform my decision at all? Obviously I'm not looking for root vegetable based anti mugger strategies or the martial art that most incorporates wavedashing. I don't want to learn which strikes have the best knockback, and I don't want the frame data on the punch about to land on my face. But as I've begun to play with a more studious, mindful focus, and during my preliminary research on different martial arts styles, I couldn't help but notice a lot of the same concepts coming up, which makes sense, as it is fighting game.

So I guess the purpose of this thread is to discuss whether playing Smash in general or any specific elements of one's game are useful to choosing a martial art in terms of ease of learning, potential for mastery, or just enjoyment.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Captain Falcon uses the martial art "Man" it involves steak and a steady regimen of stepping on children like ness.

I dunno. Until your nipples are deadly weapons, you aren't a warrior.