Social Smash 4 Social Topic 2.0

[PsychoIncarnate]

Could they just be regular form changes like legendaries have been getting nearly ever generation?

 

[Knight Dude]

I can only really bring myself to be interested in a remake if I never played the original. Or if the remake offers some new features.

Could they just be regular form changes like legendaries have been getting nearly ever generation?

Possibly. Though given that Mega-Evolution is the big thing in Pokemon now, it would seem ideal to give it to popular Legendaries. I'm a little surprised that some of these forms weren't retconned into being Mega-Evolution.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Kind of funny the chamelemon are the enemies in this episode of digimon, keeping baby digimon in cages and whipping the cage with their tongue while they force the father to cook for them

Because they are an armor digivolve using the digi egg of kindness

It's ironic if you don't know everything about Armors. Every Armor form has a regular level and many Digimon can digivolve into it without an Egg. If they don't use an Egg, the irony is lost. Chamelemon is not always coming from an Armor Digivolution, so them being jerks is completely believable. Remember when Puppetmon was a nice guy in Fusion? Exactly. Remember when Beelzemon(Fusion) was a completely heroic person in every way? Yeah. Lore and some technical stuff mean little with personalities ultimately.

 

[SmashShadow]

1 GBA
1 GBC
4 GBSP's
1 N64
1 XBox
1 GameCube
1 PS2
1 PS3
1 Wii
1 DS
1 3DSXL

I still have the GBSP's, my GameCube, and my 3DS but the rest were either sold or broken.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

The official Xbox Twitter account advertising Nintendo property strikes again!
https://twitter.com/Xbox/statuses/475701269374328833

Microsoft going third party confirmed.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

The official Xbox Twitter account advertising Nintendo property strikes again!
https://twitter.com/Xbox/statuses/475701269374328833

Sounds to me like they're just talking about their favorite games. Not quite as mind blowing as that Zelda one from earlier where they specifically asked about what Zelda game you'd want to play forever, and even then I believe they were still just talking about their favorite games.

 

[Saito]

The official Xbox Twitter account advertising Nintendo property strikes again!
https://twitter.com/Xbox/statuses/475701269374328833

KOTOR?

Damn, I didn't know xbox had such good taste.

 

[Arcanir]

Spoiler

They didn't even say that. Not sure where you're getting that form. No, from the page with the scans, they said "These 'Mega Evolutions' are something called Ancient Devolutions." in a nutshell. They were speculating on them being Mega Evolutions, nothing more. They didn't actually say they were anywhere near similar to Mega Evolution at all. Unless you can link the proper page where they say that, but I didn't read that.

http://www.serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/prehistoric.shtml

These Pokémon seem to work in a similar manner to Mega Evolution through a process called Ancient Devolution, and sends the Pokémon back to their prehistoric state. Full details on this feature are not known

It seems I forgot to include the "Seem," but yes, they did imply that it was related to Mega Evolution.

Are you purposely missing the point or just trolling me now? Both return to the same original form for whatever reason. That's the similarity. Nothing more. My assertion is blatantly correct because of how I specifically am saying it. Evolution and Devolution are severely irrelevant to my point in every way. I don't care about the terms at all.

I'm not arguing about that, I'm arguing about the differences and how they affect the idea that they "devolve" or "evolve." If you agree that the Evolution and Devolution is irrelevant, then I don't see the point of continuing this.

You need to properly read something to disagree with it. You are entirely strawmanning my entire argument about "returning to base forms" and making up what I'm talking about at this point. You're right. They're not devolutions. But that wasn't even my point in the first place. Read up to see what my real point is.

No, here's what you said:

And yes, Kyurem is the same thing as a devolution at that point. It went to its original form instead. That's what de-evolving means, going to your first form, which is what it did. It's just a different name, yes, but they work the same way, returning to their primal forms. Just like Kyogre and Groudon are doing.

Kyurem is returning to one of his original formes, and is effectively a devolution. So is Mega Aerodactyl, as he's actually based upon his oldest form.
They weren't shown as Megas either in any of the writing, but origin formes when translated from what people can tell. Forme changes, easily.

If there was any confusion, it came from the way that you stated your posts, I did not mishandle any of your words when responding.

Fusions, not forms. Fusions are specific to Kyurem and beyond special. It's not a Mode. It's not a Mega Evolution. It's not an Ancient Devolution, it's a beyond unique mechanic. I don't call them Formes because it's not even in the name, which all Forme changes have. They actually say Forme specifically. "Concept" doesn't matter, name does. They're not Formes and never were.

Fusion is a method unique to Kyurem, but it's considered to be a part of the group of "Forms," that is not arguable and is an accepted classification. Similarly, just because they lack a name doesn't mean much as it's still considered a part of that group. Going against it because you feel otherwise doesn't negate that fact.

You're missing the point. I knew they'd transform back to the original shape due to the lore. It was bloody obvious by that point. That was the only thing they could do with Kyurem, a fusion dance with his pieces. Nothing else would make sense.

Then you predicted it, but it was not officially given out information, which is the point. The fact of the matter is it was not concretely known, assumption does not equal fact, it's just hypothesis until confirmed.

I don't see how ripping off Digimon and Dragon Quest Monsters completely is anywhere near interesting. The fusion idea was to be frank, one of the dumbest I ever heard. It became more dumb when you couldn't even get the real Original Dragon by combining all 3. It was a movie exclusive. Hell, they didn't even bother to code it in and make it DLC at the very least. Literally, all the Fusion was was either exactly how Digimon did it, or exactly how Dragon Quest Monsters' style of breeding worked.(parents leave, get new guy)

By that logic, Castlevania Symphony of the Night ripped off Metroid by taking on the "Metroid" formula. That is not how that works, there's a difference between blatantly taking ideas and forcing them into the franchise, or drawing from a similar concept and expanding on it and incorporating it into your own. Pokémon does the latter, it takes some ideas, but uses them in a way unique to themselves, it doesn't blatantly rip off anything.

Honestly, it's that type of thinking that causes Digimon to be called a "Pokémon rip-off."

No mega stones shown = not there, not mentioned even for them. It would've blatantly been mentioned if they were Megas. Automatic "nope" by default. In addition, they were confirmed to not be Mega Evolutions by blatantly using a different name and is an entirely new thing. Those are minor changes, which all Mega Evolutions are major changes. Doesn't add up. They won't require Mega Stones, period, because if they did, they would've mentioned it properly the first time. It doesn't make sense.

"The Absence of Evidence is not the Proof of Absence," just because we don't see it doesn't mean they aren't there. Otherwise, by that same train of thought, the DNA Splicers did not exist for Kyurem as we did not see them in any of the scans.

Also, I'm not arguing that they're 100% Megas, I'm arguing that they're a concept that's related, but does its own thing.

Going to be blunt; I am not going to believe in any possible way they are any form of Mega Evolution barring them saying it straight out. In other words, I will not be convinced no matter what. This piece of conversation is over now. You're wasting your time.

Alright, then lets just leave it to the future.

The names are blatant differences too. Ignoring that is ludicrous. Mode Changes, Forme Changes, Mega Evolutions, Fusion, and Ancient Evolutions are all currently different things. Yes, they're different, very different. That's my final word on it, and it will not change. Consider this conversation piece over as well permanently.

Then kindly take it up with the classification, that's how they consider it.

That only counts for some, not all. Many don't have anything to do with the actual canon. Some are, some aren't. Only those shown with continuity from the movie are actually provable as canon. Which is only a very small amount as is. The first movie, Mewtwo's Return, Rise of Darkrai, and that's it so far. Maybe the Lucario movie because Ash was confirmed to have aura abilities. That only counts for Genesect(which is unlikely due to the fact that the Mewtwo in the Genesect movie can't be the same Mewtwo that Ash met long ago. "She" didn't recognize him, she had a slightly edited backstory) if they spoke of that particular Red Genesect.

Genesect was referred to by N in the first episode of that arc IIRC, nothing was brought up about Mewtwo. Also, the Mewtwos are not the same and they state as much, and the second one had a special where a character from the anime appeared and the character was not Ash, but rather someone he did meet.

Also, the fact that some movies are considered canon shows that potentially all of the movies are canon, that's how it's written unless stated otherwise.

In addition, to be honest, I'm done. You're failed to convince me of almost everything, and it's very clear you never will. I don't really care if I convince you either. After misrepresenting a lot of my argument tons of times, I don't feel it's even worth continuing this regardless. With that, entirely new subject or please don't reply to me about this at all. And yes, if you do continue it, I will ignore it, because I don't have any wish to talk about it anymore due to the fact you are completely missing the point(horribly so) and even saying exactly what my exact point is with exact precision isn't working.

Very well, I will just leave these points here, feel free to read them if desired. Personally though, I agree that neither of us are budging, and quite frankly, there seems to be a lot of misinterpretation on both sides, so we're not going to gain any traction continuing this. Feel free to read if desired, but I'll end it here.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Depending on how this ancient devolution works, it would be cool to see Ancient Charizard, Ancient Blastoise, and Ancient Venusaur

Although they should make the ancient forms look more beastly

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

People still believe GC VC is a thing? They still aren't able to release N64 VC games...
It's not happening, let it go. If plugging the good ol' Gamecube back is such a hassle for you, overpriced HD remakes is the next best thing you can hope for.

No, if anyone needs to relax about the situation, it would be YOU!!!

 

[Saito]

Depending on how this ancient devolution works, it would be cool to see Ancient Charizard, Ancient Blastoise, and Ancient Venusaur

Although they should make the ancient forms look more beastly

Honestly I can see ancient devolution being a thing for most of the fossil type pokemon.

And MAYBE the regis.

That is, if their bodies are ready.

 

[Kenith]

I currently own

- Nintendo 64
- GameCube
- Wii
- Wii U

- GBA SP
- DS
- 3DS

- PS3
- Xbox
- Xbox 360

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Honestly I can see ancient devolution being a thing for most of the fossil type pokemon.

And MAYBE the regis.

That is, if their bodies are ready.

That would be cool

If their revived fossil forms aren't their TRUE forms but a cloned imitation

So through Ancient devolution they reveal their true forms

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Spoiler

http://www.serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/prehistoric.shtml


I forgot to include the "Seem," but yes, they did imply that they thought it was related to Mega Evolution



I'm not arguing about that, I'm arguing that the difference between them obtaining the forms are what makes them similar. If you agree that the Evolution and Devolution is irrelevant, then I don't see the point of continuing this.



No, here's what you said:




If there was any confusion, it came from the way that you stated your posts, I did not mishandle any of your words when responding.



Fusion is a mechanic unique to Kyurem, but it's considered to be a part of the group of "Forms," that is not arguable and is an accepted classification. Similarly, just because they lack a name doesn't mean much as it's still considered a part of that group. Going against it because you feel otherwise doesn't negate that fact..



Then you predicted it, but it was not officially given out information, which is the point. The fact of the matter is it was not concretely known, assumption does not equal fact, it's just hypothesis until confirmed.



By that logic, Castlevania Symphony of the Night ripped off Metroid by taking on the "Metroid" formula. That is not how that works, there's a difference between blatantly taking ideas and forcing them into the franchise, or drawing from a similar concept and expanding on it. Pokémon does the latter, it takes some ideas, but uses them in a way unique to themselves, it doesn't blatantly rip off anything.

Honestly, it's that type of thinking that causes Digimon to be called a "Pokémon rip-off."



"The Absence of Evidence is not the Proof of Absence," just because we don't see it doesn't mean they aren't there.

Also, I'm not arguing that they're 100% Megas, I'm arguing that they're a concept that's related, but does its own thing.



Then alright, then lets just leave it to the future.



Then kindly take it up with the classification, that's how they consider it.



Genesect was referred to by N in the first episode of that arc IIRC, nothing was brought up about Mewtwo. Also, the Mewtwos are not the same, and the second one had a special where a character from the anime appeared, and the character was not Ash.

Also, the fact that some movies are considered canon shows that potentially all of the movies are canon, it may not fit, but that's how it's written unless said otherwise.

Very well, I will just leave these points here, feel free to read them if desired. Personally though, I agree that neither of us are budging, and quite frankly, there seems to be a lot of misinterpretation on both sides, so we're not going to gain any traction continuing this. Feel free to read if desired, but I'll end it here.

I'll reply to two bits; Do you mean the similarities between the Original Dragon and Ancient Digimon or the similarities between the Ancient Devolutions and Original Dragon? I am unsure due to how odd the conversation is. The first one, they're clearly similar if not identical to a point. The second, probably different overall. Ancient Devolution is unlikely to split them into two different Pokemons, so that's why I didn't specifically made that exact type of comparisons with Kyurem. Also, keep in mind I was under the assumption Kyurem is still the Original Dragon, just without its parts. I didn't realize it was three distinct personalities akin to what the Ancient Digimon did. If that's the case, then my comparison shouldn't make as much sense, because I used a different criteria to make it.

If N just said Genesect, that means little. According to the games, Team Plasma resurrected Genesect in general. We see little of Team Plasma. If he was referring to the Shiny Genesect, that's different. But regardless of that, they did refer to it in the movie as Awakening Forme(the Genesect/Mewtwo movie specifically) first. Anyway, could you quote exactly what N said, translated properly from Japanese and the Dub text? That'd help determine it. Saying Red Genesect would actually prove that particular one was canon, although many don't really fit. And as I said, I doubt the 3rd and 4th Mewtwo movies were canon. Mewtwo didn't technically refer to the original Mewtwo, she actually said that was her backstory, pretty much identical to the original's. It does actually matter if the second Mewtwo shows up in the anime proper due to the movies not being consistent entirely with the regular movie canon. Overall, they don't actually tie it into the anime in most movies, just a few of them. The one main thing is that Ash is always used, because he's Red's anime counterpart, so he's the logical choice. I think it's more of a cameo than anything, or just because Ash is severely recognizable that he's the perfect fit. He takes Chosen One to a whole new level. Also, nobody knows if all the movies are canon, except the ones that directly are referenced in the Anime. Bulbapedia, a notable source who avoids stating facts if they aren't there makes it clear it's unknown. GameFreak nor the movie/anime creators have actually said they share a continuity, so it's up to the fans at this point.

 

[Kenith]

Regardless of what is canon in Pokemon, I think we can all agree that Ghirahim's E3 reveal trailer will be fantastic.

 

[Substitution]

Regardless of what is canon in Pokemon, I think we can all agree that Octorok's E3 reveal trailer will be fantastic.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Regardless of what is canon in Pokemon, I think we can all agree that Toon Ganondorf's E3 reveal trailer will be fantastic.

Fixed.

Fixed that for ya.

I'm going to eat you for that comment.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Regardless of what is canon in Pokemon, I think we can all agree that Tails' E3 reveal trailer will be fantastic.

As expected, since all you ever talk about is Ghirahim.

GHIRAHIM THIS, GHIRAHIM THAT!!!!!!

(Man, we're really doing a dogpile on KTG)

 

[Kenith]

As expected, since all you ever talk about is Ghirahim.

GHIRAHIM THIS, GHIRAHIM THAT!!!!!!

I know, don't you love it?

 

[Substitution]

I'm going to eat you for that comment.

But I'm not what's for dinner.

 

[Sebagomez]

As expected, since all you ever talk about is Ghirahim.

GHIRAHIM THIS, GHIRAHIM THAT!!!!!!

What's this about Ghirahim?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I know, don't you love it?

Not really, it looks like he's always taking all of his clothes off before you fight him, and we don't need porn characters in Smash

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not really, it looks like he's always taking all of his clothes off before you fight him, and we don't need porn characters in Smash

Samus strips off her clothes to turn into Zero Suit Samus in Brawl.

ZSS is ridiculously dressed. Remember, porn doesn't mean lack of clothes, it's all about how they're drawn, and ZSS is overly sexy... but so is Snake. Dat ass...

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

But I'm not what's for dinner.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Samus strips off her clothes to turn into Zero Suit Samus in Brawl.

ZSS is ridiculously dressed. Remember, porn doesn't mean lack of clothes, it's all about how they're drawn, and ZSS is overly sexy... but so is Snake. Dat ***...

Zero Suit Samus is not a porn character, she's still wearing her zero suit.

 

[Kenith]

Not really, it looks like he's always taking all of his clothes off before you fight him, and we don't need porn characters in Smash

I never thought of it that way...

Now I want him even more!

 

[Substitution]

I never thought of it that way...

Now I want him even more!

Not until Octorok gets in first!

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Regarding the supposed objectification of Samus, this is what I'll say on the matter.

I think Samus was more objectified when the reward for beating a Metroid game in a certain amount of time was her taking off more of her armor. The faster you beat it, the more she undressed. I think that's more objectifying than a pair of jet heels will ever be.

 

[Kenith]

Zero Suit Samus is not a porn character, she's still wearing her zero suit.

What about Krystal and her slave tribal bikini she borrowed from Princess Leia?

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Nah, Groose should be in before Girahim. Who can resist this face?

 

[LiteralGrill]

Pics or didn't happen.

I don't have a real roster, I spose I could find a pic of me leaking the PSASBR DLC if I searched their forums long enough.

 

[Kenith]

Nah, Groose should be in before Girahim. Who can resist this face?

No. He's in my way and the sight of his appalling hair makes my gorge rise.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I never thought of it that way...

Now I want him even more!

 

[Substitution]

I don't have a real roster, I spose I could find a pic of me leaking the PSASBR DLC if I searched their forums long enough.

So then you lied. You're a blasphemer!
DESTROY THE BLASPHEMER!

 

[LiteralGrill]

So then you lied. You're a blasphemer!
DESTROY THE BLASPHEMER!

or I just can't tell you since I'd lose my job at Nintendo I MEAN

Nope, no roster!!! Please Understand.

 

[Frostwraith]

Zero Suit Samus is not a porn character, she's still wearing her zero suit.

Define porn character.

I'm pretty sure that what HyperFalcon meant by "porn characters" was fanservice-y characters. In other words, characters drawn with sex appeal. Zero Suit Samus is a good example of such a character.

And with Bandai Namco on board, that is hardly surprising...

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

What about Krystal and her slave tribal bikini she borrowed from Princess Leia?

DONT TURN THIS AROUND ON ME!!!!!! Krystal was never a porn character

 

[Kenith]

View attachment 15741

No, CliffJumper, King Harkinian is not a porn star.

 

[Substitution]

or I just can't tell you since I'd lose my job at Nintendo I MEAN

Nope, no roster!!! Please Understand.

...I'm watching you. Bub.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Zero Suit Samus is not a porn character, she's still wearing her zero suit.

Stripping is a sexual act, period.

The fact that your main goal is many games is to remove her clothes outright sexualizes her. Also, the joke blatantly went over your head. I'm finding it hard to believe you understand what actual porn is. Having clothes on doesn't make something non-porn as is. Many actions can be fully clothed while still clearly being pornography. Clothes being on or off is pretty much irrelevant to the genre.

However, I cannot tell if you actually don't know much about porn or you're just being silly. Ghirahim is no more a porn character than Samus at all. Literally. Neither of them do anything worse than each other. One strips their clothes, one is creepy in a sexy-like way. Both are pretty tame overall anyway.

Frostwraith gets exactly what I mean. Sexualization is just one way to create porn. That's part of the joke. I don't like explaining the joke, but you're confusing the point regardless.