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Smash 4 Facts and Details! (+ Videos including M2K, Armada, HBox, HugS as Samus, Zero and more)

Rhus

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Fox would have been top tier if he didn't have 3 -3 match-ups with Ice Climbers/Pikachu/Shiek. Literally only thing holding him back were those three hard counters.
I won't argue this, he was definitely fine in Brawl and very solid, but I'm quite worried about his nerfs being really over the top, specifically the nerfs to his shine and more importantly, his lasers. I can handle damage/kill power reductions because I don't consider that iconic to his gameplay, but his defensive/neutral and mobility based game is.

If he can no longer laser cancel out of short hops, his mobility options downgrade considerably, and his identity as an extremely fast defensive character with great long range game will be all but ruined. He really needs to retain his high movement while lasering in order to make literally any use of his laser. That being said, we would have to experiment with him in order to find out if laser cancelling has actually been removed.

If everyone moves faster in this game and Fox still has the same range on his blaster as in Brawl but can no longer lag cancel, Fox has less than any reason to even pull the thing out.

I'm likely worrying too much, but just thought I would voice what I think about it here.
 

Chiroz

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Well, I am going to sleep. Tomorrow I will probably leave for E3 as soon as I wake up so I will probably update the thread when I get back home at night. Tomorrow I will go a lot more in depth into every single character.

I will leave the overall mechanics/physics of the game for the last day, that way I will have had the longest time to get used to the game and have a conclusion based on a lot of experience with the game.



I will however read this thread while at E3 (even if I don't update or answer it), so feel free to ask anything or request anything and I will try to do my best to check for those things. Just a heads up I won't check things such as voice actors or visuals, I am strictly going to check for gameplay. That being said, you can ask for things as trivial as: "Test if this move from character X spikes" (actual question which I will check tomorrow :p) or things as complex as: "Can you DACUS?"

Fire away with the questions :).
 

New_Dumal

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Fox could never been top-tier in Brawl...High tier okay, but never top-tier.
His recovery is a real problem in Brawl, as I punish him hard as Pit (and many other chars can do).
He don't have great aerials moves too, only a few viable moves.
But he is good in overall. Okay High tier if wasn't the MU's you talked about, Top tier is out of question.

Fox = Pit or slightly better in Brawl, and I think both are a little underestimated.
This is not the topic to discuss Brawl anyway.
 

New_Dumal

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I will give you 3 things to check :

1) Palutena's Arrow (Pit) are seriously nerfed ? It looks smaller, slower ... worse.

2) It's possible to cancel anyone jab in a Usmash or something ? Try crouching, comboing into this, I don't know

3) Pit new Down-B (reflector shield, I forgot the exact name) still block physical atacks or just energy or projectiles? Test it please.

Thanks Raykz, you're a nice person and a lucky one too (E3 *___*)
 

Yomi-no-Kuni

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How much lag does dropping your Shield have? Is Shielding a good option in general? Powershield?

It seems most characters have high jump ranges in general. Can you confirm? (Greninjas jumps are insane for example)

Can you DACUS? xD
 

Tristan_win

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Here's a few things you could test for Sheik, I'm assuming there's 3ds there at e3.

1)Test to see if her new side B can be controlled in any way. From controlling where the grenade are directed to delaying the explosion at all.

2) Observer using the side B in the air, see if it cancel horizontal momentum or not. Please do the same thing for sheik needles

3) Spam Fsmash, basically in melee and brawl Sheik fsmash 2nd hit isn't guaranteed at all. It would be nice if we had someone who could reassure us that it might be guarantee.

4) Like for the side B ANY information you could give on Sheik new down B would be amazing. What I would especially like is if the attack was optional like zero suits.

If it was a more control environment I would suggest trying to do the ftilt lock. From the little gameplay I have seen for Sheik it still looks very possible and mix with how little they seemed to change her, increase stun without being about to cancel early, and higher falling speeds makes me think it will function very similar to brawl.... Which would be sex.....
 
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Lanuigi

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The things I would like checked for Luigi

1. I have yet to see Luigi's Side B actually misfire. Have you seen this?
2. How is Luigi's kill potential with Up-B while standing close for the ching. In all of the videos of Luigi, I don't recall him attempting a ching Up-B yet.
3. How does his new jump function like? I think his neutral jump is reminiscent of the oid SMB game where it looks like Yoshi's jump.

Thank you kind soul if you are able to get this information or even try to
 
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Chiroz

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I am standing in a line right now to play the other Nintendo games. I'll write a bit down:

First Hungrybox, D1, Prog, Scar, Zero and some others are walking around playing. I got a few recordings of them. Hopefully I find them again later on, I migh not.



I played 4 games of 3DS right now, one with each new character. Here is a summary for now.

Sheik: You cannot control where the Side B goes, it always goes a set path in a downwards parabola. You can control when it explodes though. Before it explodes it always does a small "jump" before exploding, so you should aim at a character's feet. When Sheik does it she gains height but she loses all horizontal momentum, also she lags so much you end up at a worse position if you use it to "help your recovery". If you want to understand just do Up-B with solo Popo in Brawl. It feels exactly the same. Whats more interesting is that if you get hit out of the Side B then it never detonates and it becomes the deku nut item and anyone can pick it up.

The Down B is completely non-controllable. It goes a set path and always attacks. It does auto-sweepspot though, so you can use it as recovery.

F-Smash feels the same as previous games. I got both hits off but it seems the same as always. F-Tilt combos into itself much better than before. It is actually faster and has less lag.



Luigi:

His Up-B seems the same as Brawl in power. I only landed it once, I kept missing, I landed i at 30% and got the person to the height of the top platform of Battlefield.

His Side B can still misfire for sure and its still random.

Luigi still has very little traction.

His 1st jump is very closely the same as Yoshi's 2nd jump. He can even do rising aerials.



Toon Link: Still same final smash. Down Air doesn't plummet as much, it still makes you fall but not as fast as it did in Brawl. Neutral Air seems different, its 2 slashes now, was it always 2?



Yoshi: New Up-Smash. It seems to be the same but with a new animation. Yoshi now kicks instead of using his tail. Yoshi's Side B is much faster, has much less end lag and doesn't put you in free fall. You can actually use it outside of the stage and still survive if you wanted. Up-B has a much lower flight path, it still makes Yoshi "jump" if used in the air. Yoshi's Down B on the ground now doesn't make him jump incredibly high. He jumps just enough to reach Battlefields lower platforms, he cant reach the high platform from the ground



More to come soon.



Armada and M2K are about to play 2 matches too. I'll record them in a sec.
 
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Tristan_win

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...Disappointing results...

I have a new question.. Raykz if I was female would you let me have your children? No but seriously thanks for the quick respond back.

If you happen to find the time to play more Sheik here's a few more things to look into

1) Overall in your opinion how does Sheik killing power compare to Brawls? Is she weaker, stronger, or have she stay the same while everyone else has gotten weaker? Normally for Sheik beyond usmash and gimps she would kill around 110-150%

2) This question is kind of a extension to the first but it needs to be addressed, how strong is Sheik Fair now? Has it received any buffs?

3)
Grabs, how are they? Does the fthrow and bthrow set people up somewhat nicely if they DI incorrectly(I know you can't check their DI, I'm just asking if they go in the same angle) how dthrow now? Still 'meh' and hows the knock back on the grabs in general, are they so strong that like Kirby we can't follow them up anymore?

4) This question a bit silly but its like my favorite small thing. When facing the ledge or edge of a platform please roll toward it while spamming up B. In brawl when sheik does this she will slide off and go into a non moving aerial up B, is this still in the game?
 

Chiroz

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I'll try to do as much as I can.

Armada vs M2K was kind of disappointing. Not dissing on them, they are both nice guys and I know they are extremely skilled but they were avoiding each other, teaming up against the player in 1st and then kill trading to win the medal, so the actual match was extremely lame. They also both picked Kirby based on his throw kill % which apparently makes him OP in their eyes. I guess we would all do the same if we had 1 chance to get the medal (I probably would have done that too if I had a friend who would let me kill him so I could get the medal) :p, not blaming them, but the match was lame.

I'll still upload. And I got my match right after they did. Won my medal with Sonic. Its shiny :p.


Note: Sonic's final smash is indeed still Super Sonic. Only 1 final smash left to confirm, Yoshi.
 
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New_Dumal

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Finally footage about M2K playing... You know if he played Marth,Mario or another character after the Kirby match ?
Also, waiting for Pit's footage.
One more time, thank you for everything Raykz
 

Chiroz

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Finally footage about M2K playing... You know if he played Marth,Mario or another character after the Kirby match ?
Also, waiting for Pit's footage.
One more time, thank you for everything Raykz
I don't I was playing for my medal after them so I don't know where they took off. But Hungrybox told me this morning they would be around most of the day, so I might run into them a few more times.

I'll definitely play Pit a lot to learn stuff about him. Footage is hard, I am by myself and I can't record and play at the same time. And Pit is definitely the least picked character. I have not seen a single match of him in the whole day.

Once I finish checking out the other games (Hyrule Warriors, Mario Party 10 and such) I'll test Pit out.
 

New_Dumal

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YES!
Enjoy E3 over anything else.I'm not from USA so I can't play Smash 4 in any best buy. But if I could...
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more :sadeyes:

I believe all top-professional players will give their sincere feelings about SM4SH, so I'm more relaxed for now.
 

Rhus

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Oh, one small thing, @ Chiroz Chiroz

I'm not sure if you are aware, but in Brawl, Fox's Fair had a hover effect that hoisted him upward if he used it immediately after his double jump, and it also suspended him in the air somewhat during short hops to help all of it connect properly. This was called the "Foxcopter," as you may or may not recall.

Can you just briefly test this and see if it's still in/the degree it is in Smash 4? Thanks so much in advance.

I also saw Fox can act after his illusion in the air, which is awesome.
 
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Fuqua

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Just watched the treehouse thing with ssb4 for wii u being shown. It looked really easy to meteor smash with marth's down air, like you don't have to sweetspot it at all anymore
 

bentendo222

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Its hard to get the stage you want in 3DS. Its up to a vote between all 4 players. I am also more focused on gameplay than aesthetics.
That's fine, I already figured out that Rainbow Road plays a remix of Mario Kart 7's Rainbow Road theme. Now I just need to find the song for Prism Tower.
 

Aninymouse

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Just watched the treehouse thing with ssb4 for wii u being shown. It looked really easy to meteor smash with marth's down air, like you don't have to sweetspot it at all anymore
After getting murdered by everyone when I picked DK the first time, I picked Marth the second time. And you are correct, Marth's Dair is way more powerful. I can confirm this. Very satisfying to pull off.
 
D

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If you really played as Sonic, please give a concise explanation of his smash 4 transition. I think I speak for many fans that, especially due to the fact he wasn't picked in the tournament, we are still anxious to know more about how sonic plays in the new game. Thanks.
 

Chiroz

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Sorry I havent updated or uploaded the pro videos. I went to a friends house yesterday to play some Smash and got home at 3 AM. Had no time to update. I have checked everything in the thread including the music question (The theme from the Greninja trailer plays in Prism Tower dude). I will update when I can later today since I will also be playing today.
 

---

鉄腕
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After some talk I have decided to unlock this thread for now. This thread was very borderline under some of our guidelines and could still be closed at some point, but for now enjoy. :)

@ Chiroz Chiroz
 

-dMT-

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I went in to the Nintendo World Store to play today. I haven't seen too much Sheik info out yet, so after trying her out on the 3DS I thought I'd share some things, because I really liked what I saw.

First off - the 3DS demo was a single player experience where I got 5 minutes to go through Smash Run (essentially running around killing monsters and gaining buffs) and at the end of it I was put up against 3 other CPUs. This was the only way to demo the 3DS version, and Sheik is only available in the 3DS version.

Naturally, the whole premise of the demo to me was "I have 5 minutes to mess around with Sheik without 3 other players probably trying to kill me on a small platform." So I tested a few things in isolated sectors before receiving any movement buffs, and then went on to test attacks on enemies.

Let me first say, it's hard to get a grasp on how strong her attacks are when hitting monsters and not smash characters. They behave differently. The only real opportunity I had to test Sheik's power was during the FFA at the end, and in this case all CPUs and myself had various degrees of power, defense, speed, jump, etc buffs. I can say she felt much stronger than Brawl, but it doesn't mean much when buffs are involved.

So let's get to the juicy stuff. Her mobility is fantastic. Overall, save for the lack of dash-dancing and wavedashing, Sheik feels much closer to her Melee self than her Brawl self. All of my aerials short hopped landed with virtually no lag, save for dair. Dair still has that straight-down effect as it did in Brawl but has a much shorter start-up animation and also falls significantly faster than in Brawl. Furthermore, the landing lag of dair, even when initiated rather close to the stage, is shorter.

Her side-B is completely out of player control as far as I could tell. I tried aiming it, I tried holding B to time explosions. I tried anything I could think of. It simply flies in it's set path, lands, then flies up and blows up. When I did it in the air, it would blow up after a set amount of time in the air if it didn't land soon enough. The range on the explosion seems more than reasonable, and more than what one would expect.

Her down-B is essentially ZSS' down-B, but it always has a hitbox at the end. You don't input any attack button. It's direction can be controlled right/left regardless of where Sheik is facing or moving, but the path seems more or less set. The hitbox is further different from ZSS in that if it connects with a target, shield or not, it will bounce off after delivering the hit - essentially making it relatively safe on shield as a first impression. It also has decent knockback. I think it was mentioned before, but the down-B will grab the ledge if being used to recover.

Her up-B seemed more or less the same as Brawl. I wasn't able to test the strength of the explosion.

Needles can be stored by shielding, like usual. They function like they did in Brawl, where you tap to begin charging and tap again to fire. Needle Canceling is back! Landing while shooting needles resulted in no noticeable lag, both isolated and when hitting a target. I was able to land whilst shooting needles and go right into a grab.


In general, her ftilt is still amazing, her smashes are the same, and she functions as one would expect. As with the rest of the cast, her fall speed is significantly faster. Her animations for the fair, nair, bair, uair all seemed polished with more details although they are functionally the same.

Hope that helps. I have to say though, the 3DS version definitely feels more polished than the WiiU version in terms of character movement, attack/special landing lag, expected knockback. I had no trouble comboing the CPUs from dthrow to a cocktail of ftilts and aerials (this WITH the buffs). Considering the 3DS version is the more complete product (and feels like it) I think it's safe to say we have a solid Smash game ahead of us.
 

SmashBroski

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Donkey Kong has a new dash attack!?!

Is it the classic Donkey Kong Country roll a la Project M?
 

Chiroz

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Donkey Kong has a new dash attack!?!

Is it the classic Donkey Kong Country roll a la Project M?
Yes




If you really played as Sonic, please give a concise explanation of his smash 4 transition. I think I speak for many fans that, especially due to the fact he wasn't picked in the tournament, we are still anxious to know more about how sonic plays in the new game. Thanks.

Sonic is one of my favorite characters from Brawl. He still plays very similar to Brawl. His side B is now much faster and hits much harder. I have actually been able to kill at high % with it, although it was probably because of incredibly bad DI on my opponents part. Sonic can still shield cancel his side-B. I tried Spin-Dash-Jumping (Don't know how that's called) and wasn't able to, but I only tried it once because I thought I had discovered another technique and I invested all my time on that other technique and it turns out it might not have been a technique at all (still unsure, have to go through video footage).

Side-B in the air is completely different, its much, much faster and it travels in a diagonal pattern downwards, so don't use it for recovery unless you know you can reach the stage. The faster nature of it will allow you to reach the stage very fast so that's good. Down-B is exactly the same as before. You can still cancel Side-B charge by pressing shield but you cannot cancel Down-B with a shield upon landing like you could before. Down Smash was changed, nerfed, less knockback, less range, but at least its technically faster. Its a split kick, so it hits both sides instantly instead of having to wait. Neutral B comes out much faster but seems to travel less distance. Also it seems to stop short many, many times, even when I am extremely close to my target, the homing attack would just stop right before hitting them, incredibly frustrating. It's still laggy as hell. Spring from Up-B doesn't dissapear after hitting someone and can potentially hit multiple targets.

Dash attack is now a multihit, if you hit with the first hit it pulls your opponent towards Sonic and you get an assured 2nd hit (Sonic kicks forward). His dash attack now sets up for Up-Air (With or without spring depending on %). Sonic's Side-B now jumps instantly when hitting an opponent and pressing A, I don't know exactly how to explain this, going from Smash 4 to Brawl its like if Brawl "lags" a bit before jumping, basically following up from Spin Dash is much easier and faster. Up Smash is now a kill move (And you can dash into an Up-Smash, soooo good). Everything else seems about the same. There is something weird about Back Air though. Twice when I did back air when dropping from a platform I actually rose up for a split second. I have no idea why





Can Zelda's phantom be used in the air? Is it possible to drop it on opponents; like over ledges and such?
It can, but it doesn't drop, it goes in a straight line through the air. Zelda drops while the phantom is moving (but the phantom stays in the same height), she doesn't stay put.





Oh, one small thing, @ Chiroz Chiroz

I'm not sure if you are aware, but in Brawl, Fox's Fair had a hover effect that hoisted him upward if he used it immediately after his double jump, and it also suspended him in the air somewhat during short hops to help all of it connect properly. This was called the "Foxcopter," as you may or may not recall.

Can you just briefly test this and see if it's still in/the degree it is in Smash 4? Thanks so much in advance.

I also saw Fox can act after his illusion in the air, which is awesome.


Fox cannot "float" slightly, he drops through his F-Air in all circumstances.




...Disappointing results...

I have a new question.. Raykz if I was female would you let me have your children? No but seriously thanks for the quick respond back.

If you happen to find the time to play more Sheik here's a few more things to look into

1) Overall in your opinion how does Sheik killing power compare to Brawls? Is she weaker, stronger, or have she stay the same while everyone else has gotten weaker? Normally for Sheik beyond usmash and gimps she would kill around 110-150%

2) This question is kind of a extension to the first but it needs to be addressed, how strong is Sheik Fair now? Has it received any buffs?

3)
Grabs, how are they? Does the fthrow and bthrow set people up somewhat nicely if they DI incorrectly(I know you can't check their DI, I'm just asking if they go in the same angle) how dthrow now? Still 'meh' and hows the knock back on the grabs in general, are they so strong that like Kirby we can't follow them up anymore?

4) This question a bit silly but its like my favorite small thing. When facing the ledge or edge of a platform please roll toward it while spamming up B. In brawl when sheik does this she will slide off and go into a non moving aerial up B, is this still in the game?


Sheiks kill potential seems about the same quite honestly. She just seems like she can combo so much more. Specially with tilts. Specially since now in Smash 4 you can pivot tilt and you can slide tilt to start a tilt lock combo.





After some talk I have decided to unlock this thread for now. This thread was very borderline under some of our guidelines and could still be closed at some point, but for now enjoy. :)

@ Chiroz Chiroz
Thanks for the help :). I will rename the thread so it doesn't get confused. This thread is more a "facts I found out about Smash 4" more than an impressions thread really.





I will update the thread soon. Going to upload all the videos, I got videos from many different pros to upload.
 
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Chiroz

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All the videos are now up including the videos with M2K, HugS, Armada, HBox, CT Zero, TheRapture, PPMD, Team Curse, Ken, many more pros and even a special video with EgoRaptor from Game Grumps.

I am very tired so I will go to sleep and update the OP tomorrow with more detailed info on every character including the ones that are already written (doing a more in depth analysis).
 
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