"Show'em Whatcha Got, Baby" - Little Mac Moveset Thread - WIP

[LCC Son-in-Law]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I will have the OP cleaned up my tomorrow(Sunday) night!

Edit: Finished updating the opening post. We will try to keep things updated on it in the future.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I assume we'll post any changes in 1.04 in here?
Also try to find any info on any Mac changes, since I don't have the game on me now

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

I might be wrong, but I think they made the distance of his side-B in the air even worse...

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I might be wrong, but I think they made the distance of his side-B in the air even worse...

Yeah they did, same with the Up B in the air its very short compared to pre 1.04 (from pbnj's stream), his rolls are slightly slower and they also changed the jab combo damage by 2-3% as well. Pretty sure Super Amour and smash attack damage was mostly unaffected, but I can't say for sure though.

 

[Oblivion129]

I think he has more aerial mobility, even though his recovery is nerfed. That second jump seems to have more horizontal distance.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Is his recovery nerf confirmed? It sure feels like it, but I'm also hearing that the only changes were his jabs nerfed and KO punch buffed.

 

[Nat Goméz]

Out off all the things I expected them to buff or nerf. They nerf Mac's recovery and buff his KO punch.

My God, Samurai, I wonder how your mind works -w-

 

[ChampKing]

His recovery seems the exact same as before. It was always short distance. Up+B recovers the same as it did before. Side+B does seem a bit shorter though. Not by much though.
Other than Jab nerf and KO Punch buff(lol), his aerials seems slightly faster though it's probably placebo.

 

[Daeyrat]

Mac's aerial Side B comparison between 1.0.3 and 1.0.4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Os9AWCJRI

 

[TheReflexWonder]

As per this post, shields were purported to come out on Frame 2 in the base version of the game:

Re: Defensive Mechanics

Action | Active | End
Roll | 4 – 20 | 30
Spot Dodge | 3 – 19 | 26
Shielding | 2 - 11 | 18

Shielding has been nerfed. From a minimum shield hold of 7 frames to 10, and actually having start up. Shield dropping is still 7 frames, as like Brawl.

Mac's 1.02 frame data suggests that his Jab is active on Frame 1. On a grounded grab-release, Mac releases Wario and Bowser Jr. close enough for an immediate Jab to reach. I don't know if it was a guaranteed grab-release combo in a previous version, but I tested it this morning on my 1.04 version and they can shield the Jab.

I'd like to know what this means. Are shields Frame 1? Is the Frame 1 hitbox out before his fist fully extends? Is Mac's Jab1 just Frame 2 or worse? Does a grab releasee have slight frame advantage in this game? As I was holding A to get the Jab out, I assume that both grab releasers and grab releasees can buffer options out of a grab release now (as opposed to Brawl, where grab releasees couldn't, which is why Squirtle could pummel release -> Jab most characters guaranteed).

 

[Shaya]

SORRY REFLEX, it seems it's still 1 frame, just 3DS itself doesn't have it come up straight away (for whatever reason).

People did the mac 1 frame jab test against shields and it came up in time.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

SORRY REFLEX, it seems it's still 1 frame, just 3DS itself doesn't have it come up straight away (for whatever reason).

People did the mac 1 frame jab test against shields and it came up in time.

Sorry to quote you everywhere; just wanted a straight answer. I'll edit all my posts elsewhere.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I don't know if it's always been there or not, but I noticed this morning that Mac's KO Punch has super armor for a very short amount of time. The punch hitbox is out on Frame 9, and it seems to have armor at least a frame or two beforehand (which can be tested via Proximity Mine spacing). Anyone with 1.03 want to test that?

 

[Nat Goméz]

I don't know if it's always been there or not, but I noticed this morning that Mac's KO Punch has super armor for a very short amount of time. The punch hitbox is out on Frame 9, and it seems to have armor at least a frame or two beforehand (which can be tested via Proximity Mine spacing). Anyone with 1.03 want to test that?

Wow Reflex I'm impressed, Really nice find. I can confirm that KO punch has super armor now. I can't post a gif but i surely can post a few photos. (Might not be the best quality though)

Ko punched The Blast Box and survived in around 120%. And I'm pretty sure this move didn't had armor before.

Now I don't now in what exact frames the super armor starts but I'm sure is already activated when the punch hitbox is out.

 

[deepseadiva]

Yesssss. More armor.

I want armor on everything.

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

Wow Reflex I'm impressed, Really nice find. I can confirm that KO punch has super armor now. I can't post a gif but i surely can post a few photos. (Might not be the best quality though)

Ko punched The Blast Box and survived in around 120%. And I'm pretty sure this move didn't had armor before.

Now I don't now in what exact frames the super armor starts but I'm sure is already activated when the punch hitbox is out.

This is an awesome find! Do we know if it was added in this patch? Or was it always there to begin with?

 

[Nat Goméz]

This is an awesome find! Do we know if it was added in this patch? Or was it always there to begin with?

Nah, the first thing I did when i got the game was testing all the Little Mac's stuffs. I do remember trying to see if the KO punch had armor and i remember dying for it.

I also think that if it had super armor from the beginning it would be common knowledge by now, testing Mac's most important move is an obvious thing to do, even more when you know that he doesn't flinch for smashing bombs .

But well, Aerodrome said it wasn't changed so I guess I didn't test it right before. Sorry for that guys. ^_^

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

Nah, the first thing I did when i got the game was testing all the Little Mac's stuffs. I do remember trying to see if the KO punch had armor and i remember dying for it.

I also think that if it had super armor from the beginning it would be common knowledge by now, testing Mac's most important move is an obvious thing to do, even more when you know that he doesn't flinch for smashing bombs .

But well, Aerodrome said it wasn't changed so I guess I didn't test it right before. Sorry for that guys. ^_^

Np. I honestly may test this more in the next week or so, just to make sure of it having no sort of super armor. If/when I'm able to so this, I will let y'all know what I find.

 

[Opana]

Jab1->Jab2->Dtilt->Jump Canceled Usmash out of dash is a great combo/string

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Can anyone confirm if this works?
Fair -> Fair -> Aerial K.O Punch/ Grounded K.O Punch
I managed to mash out both the Aerial and Grounded K.O Punches in online matches, not sure if I got lucky or if it is in fact, a combo.

 

[M@v]

I've noticed on Fox (and I'm sure other fast fallers) multiple dtilts combo into eachother. I was able to do a 3 dtilt->Ko Punch 0 death on Fox. Obviously you don't always need to to do dtilt that much for a KO punch, but that can be applied to combos when you don't have the punch as well.

 

[PHYTO-1]

believe it or not straight lunge isnt at all a bad move. of course im talking about un/semi-charged as fully charged has exactly 2.6 years of endlag.

uses for straight lunge

- eating aerials. mac doesn't have much options when it comes to landing because his aerials suck. straight lunge will eat anything that does 8% or less damage. so certain aerial attacks will get eaten like diddy kong uair, mario's uair, peach's uair and much more.

- catching moving hitboxes. moves like rollout, spindash, quickdraw, wario bike, egg roll, etc. lose to straight lunge. even moves like shadow sneak and teleport can be caught. just jump in the air and charge the lunge. sometimes i turn around before i jump and let them zoom under me then catch them from behind. this will condition them to stop spamming those lame moves thinking mac has no answer to them.

- catching getup options. kinda obvious. just position yourself accordingly and have good reaction time. you can dash into jump cancelled straight lunge to help position if you dont want to slide while charging. eventually theyll start to lay down for a few seconds to throw you off. keep in mind straight lunge takes 4 seconds to fully charge

- even an uncharged straight lunge has a good amount of knockback. rageless uncharged can kill bowser at the edge at 90%, which is earlier than rage dsmash. also for semi-charge, the further out in the lunge they get hit the less damage+knockback they will receive. 14% close, 12% mid, 9% far.

this is just for mixups though. mac has better options for certain things but this is helpful so yea

 

[divade]

Hey, not a Lilmac user but does anyone know how a guy delayed his star punch? the sweat effect wore off, I ran at him (from the edge of an omega), tried to roll around him, but He KO'd me. I can upload pics if this is new, i'm just super confused.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Hey, not a Lilmac user but does anyone know how a guy delayed his star punch? the sweat effect wore off, I ran at him (from the edge of an omega), tried to roll around him, but He KO'd me. I can upload pics if this is new, i'm just super confused.

hmmmm..... I think you should upload the pics for us to see.

 

[divade]

This might be more useful, despite poor quality.

*I'll upload a couple images (better quality) if need be*

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

hwww.youtube Dot com /watch?v=PcQndRg8yGQ This might be more useful, despite poor quality. (can't post links cause i'm super newb)

*I'll upload a couple images (better quality) if need be*

Holy Crap What IS this?.....

 

[elmuchogrumpy]

This is great, I've been trying to figure out how to integrate this more into my play. I agree that we should be using everything that we've got!

 

[divade]

Attack

End of monkey flip

Roll at Mac

Aaaaand DEADZ.

Yeah, I don't understand this.

 

[ManofSteelII]

Attack

End of monkey flip

Roll at Mac

Aaaaand DEADZ.

Yeah, I don't understand this.

I forget where I saw this was posted but apparently Mac's fist still has a hit box even on the way down

 

[DtJ Hilt]

@ PHYTO-1
Moved your thread "The Power of Straight Lunge" into the Moveset Thread.

 

[Opana]

Little Mac nair zdrop alternating

Not saying it's super useful, but I thought it was pretty cool.

 

[PHYTO-1]

man, double gut punch into flyswatter has won me so many games. i've nicknamed downtilted fsmash (bodyhook) the "gut punch" because it hits them low and makes a filthy sound effect. the "flyswatter" is uptilted fsmash (uppercut) because its comes out quick, hits high, and makes a high-slapping 'thwack' sound effect much like a flyswatter.

gut punch has such low knockback that people don't expect low trajectory. they see the fsmash and want to DI towards the stage. since they get sent so low they land on the stage and their failed DI turns into an unintended forward getup roll. then i hit them again with another gut punch. once again when they see the fsmash charging they expect huge knockback. nope. same thing happens where they unintentionally perform a forward getup roll and thats when i hit them with the flyswatter.

other times , if on the ledge theyll jump into my gut punch instead of rolling. same thing


i cannot count the amount of KOs ive gotten because of that string. its really good on scrubs at least

 

[PHYTO-1]

ive been trying to figure out uses for slip counter that are less prediction based and more reaction based.

here are a couple of moves you could easily OOS counter if you can react fast enough. (Mac and the Marth's have the fastest counter btw)

I chose to test F Smashes since their knockback after counter would be very high

Sheik F Smash
Shulk F Smash
T/Link F Smash
Dark/Pit F Smash
ZSS F Smash

shield the first hit then OOS counter the second hit

you could also jump cancel up smash OOS, but that would require taking damage and dealing less knockback in return. i would only do jump cancel up smash on Ike's Aether.


other good uses for slip counter are for predictable recoveries like DK, spacies, charizard, etc.

there are other moves you could OOS counter like jab combos but the point is to have the increased knockback

 

[Spudman]

Just popped into my head, so I thought I'd share it. Haven't tested at ALL yet, but

Anyone know if the windbox from a whiffed KO punch is strong enough to edgeguard with? Like if someone's recovery is just barely going to make it back and you have KO punch ready? I know it's incredibly situational and a pain to actually test since Training mode doesn't have any "always KO meter full" feature, but I'm just wondering. Will probably test it myself in friendlies some time and report back

 

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

Somebody told me before that you can't combo any of Little Macs smashes into each other, but I'm still not convinced of this. I seem to have done something like this twice (I don't have video evidence for this, so I'm sorry for that). The first time I was battling a yoshi, and I seemed to knock the yoshi around with a Ssmash → Usmash → Ssmash. i tried doing this again, but to no avail. I was able to pull off a two combo variant of this against a training yoshi though. Skip ahead to recently: I was fighting a Lucina player, when I did a Ssmash → low sweeping Usmash (a sweet-spot Usmash). I don't know if these are inescapable "true" combos, but they were combos nonetheless. Can we please get more research on this. Also note that in both instances, the opponent was at very low damage percents. Too high, and obviously they'll launch.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Mac's Smash attacks most certainly do not combo at any percent. Set a Training CPU to Jump and it will become very obvious.

The best you can do is get a down-angled F-Smash at a percent where it would knock someone over, then get a U-Smash (or D-Air reset -> U-Smash) if they miss the tech. That requires the opponent to mess up big-time, though.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

"Ssmash"?

.-.

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

"Ssmash"?

.-.

He beat me to it >.> What is an Ssmash haha.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Side Smash, in the same way that people say Side-B instead of Forward-B.

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

That makes sense. I had never heard that one used, so I was at a loss ><