Should I alter the L/R triggers on my White GC controller?

[Ben Zed]

So everyone says the L/R triggers on the white gamecube controllers are awful, and after trying out one of my other older controllers, I think I get it. The springs are harder to push down, and it makes it a lot harder to wavedash (or hardpress in general) by reaction; generally it messes up my timing.
So my question is, will taking the springs out of the controller do anything to fix this? If I do, should I replace them, perhaps with springs from one of my decade old controllers? Or does the problem lye elsewhere? I imagine someone has gotten bothered enough by the triggers so as to try to alter them. Hell, I don't even know if such a modification is even legal though. Has anyone done this?

 

[BO/\K]

You can just put the back of an old controller on the white controller. I have a silver back on mine to use its shoulder buttons.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

On my Wavebird, the analog function actually broke on the inside. Now I don't have analog, so I can't lightshield anymore. If you do replace the back or any other parts, be very, very careful. I broke my other Wavebird doing that.

 

[Sparklepower]

If I'm not mistaken most tourneys will allow you to use a controller with removed springs (as well as a replaced analog stick) as long as no further modifications are made. You should always check with the TO's themselves and have a backup controller, however.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Just don't buy Wildcats. If your finger so much as makes physical contact with the C-stick, it'll make the camera spaz out like a deranged dog getting tazed in a sensitive area.

Spoiler

which is anywhere, cuz ya' know, it's a tazer.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

There is no difference between white controllers and other colors. They are the same. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just passing on hearsay. Don't let yourself be psyched out by these things, just use your controller.

 

[TobiasXK]

There is no difference between white controllers and other colors. They are the same. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just passing on hearsay. Don't let yourself be psyched out by these things, just use your controller.

this isn't true. ignoring the fact that the manufacture is obviously different for basically any generation or lot of controller, with different PCB OEMs, observably different springs (different length and coil spacings), and other minor hardware differences like that... the actual design template is slightly different for at least some set of white controllers compared to the older manufactures.

while most complaints about the white controllers are anecdotal and statements of "mushiness" and "feeling bad" are really hard to do anything with (not to mention that these issues are often just standard new controller issues, which go away with time and wear), a really common complaint that has a demonstrable cause is that the shoulder buttons on the white controllers tend to be "sticky" or "lock" when you try to press them, which is a complaint that is super rare of other controllers (and especially brand new ones or ones in good condition). and i can actually tell you why that is.

first, here's the shoulder button assembly of a gamecube controller:

there's the actual trigger (grey) and the base (black), into which a peg on the underside of the shoulder button fits. and it basically works like a piston; the base guides the trigger straight down so that it can activate the actual button at the bottom.

part of the problem comes from the user and the particular way in which s/he presses the shoulder buttons. people who press the shoulders down (towards the back of the controller) as well as in are the ones who experience the locking problem, since that angle stops the trigger from going in straight, causing it to rub up against the side of the black piece and encounter extra friction and resistance. the reason these players don't experience that problem on other controllers, however, is because the actual pieces are different.

on some set of the white controllers (and obviously, i don't know that it's all of them, because i've only taken apart maybe 6 of them and "tested" about a dozen for the locking issue), the diameter of the hole in the black base is slightly different from what it is on the spice, black, platinum and indigo controllers that i compared with. so the shoulder assembly on these controllers doesn't fit together the same, allowing the angle and extra resistance to cause the shoulder button to lock up, where it wouldn't have on other controllers.

and replacing just the black piece with one with the old standard diameter fixes that issue; you can press the shoulder buttons in at the biggest angle physically possible, and it won't lock up.

i do think that even this problem can be overcome with just wear and tear and letting your hands adjust to it, but i have observed and tested for a real difference in the hardware associated with the common white controller complaint of locking shoulder buttons.

so it's not really fair to say that they're factually exactly the same (when that's not necessarily true) just because a lot of the complaints do happen to be anecdotal and/or hearsay.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The specs are slightly different and some models have parts that arent interchangable. But for all purposes, they are the same. In fact, white controllers should be built better overall.

My point is that the people who spit "facts" along the lines of "<color> controllers have <specific characteristic>" are invariably WRONG. Do not listen to them.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Legality clarification:

For OXY tournaments, all case modifications are legal. This includes spring reduction, replacing the control stick with a cstick, sanding down the control stick enclosure to a circle, etc. Wiring mods (ex: you can jump with L), macros, turbo buttons, any changes to the motherboard whatsoever, etc are illegal.

This is how most modern organizers operate as well, for the most part.

 

[Bones0]

Legality clarification:

For OXY tournaments, all case modifications are legal. This includes spring reduction, replacing the control stick with a cstick, sanding down the control stick enclosure to a circle, etc. Wiring mods (ex: you can jump with L), macros, turbo buttons, any changes to the motherboard whatsoever, etc are illegal.

This is how most modern organizers operate as well, for the most part.

Sanding the control stick enclosure shouldn't be allowed. You can get inputs that are otherwise impossible, not to mention unintended by the developers when they were designing the game to work with a certain range of input on the stick.

 

[N1c2k3]

replacing just the black piece with one with the old standard diameter fixes that issue; you can press the shoulder buttons in at the biggest angle physically possible, and it won't lock up..

Thanks so much. I noticed my white L-button sticking, but thought I'd see if it went away. I feel I have good intuition for controller differences; I knew something was off. Everything else feels great, though. I'll be looking to replace the black trigger guide piece.Any suggestions on what to be careful of?

Also, is there a page that lists the hardware differences in each color/model? Thanks!

 

[drjebus]

this isn't true. ignoring the fact that the manufacture is obviously different for basically any generation or lot of controller, with different PCB OEMs, observably different springs (different length and coil spacings), and other minor hardware differences like that... the actual design template is slightly different for at least some set of white controllers compared to the older manufactures.

while most complaints about the white controllers are anecdotal and statements of "mushiness" and "feeling bad" are really hard to do anything with (not to mention that these issues are often just standard new controller issues, which go away with time and wear), a really common complaint that has a demonstrable cause is that the shoulder buttons on the white controllers tend to be "sticky" or "lock" when you try to press them, which is a complaint that is super rare of other controllers (and especially brand new ones or ones in good condition). and i can actually tell you why that is.

[pic removed, scroll up to see it]

part of the problem comes from the user and the particular way in which s/he presses the shoulder buttons. people who press the shoulders down (towards the back of the controller) as well as in are the ones who experience the locking problem, since that angle stops the trigger from going in straight, causing it to rub up against the side of the black piece and encounter extra friction and resistance. the reason these players don't experience that problem on other controllers, however, is because the actual pieces are different.

on some set of the white controllers (and obviously, i don't know that it's all of them, because i've only taken apart maybe 6 of them and "tested" about a dozen for the locking issue), the diameter of the hole in the black base is slightly different from what it is on the spice, black, platinum and indigo controllers that i compared with. so the shoulder assembly on these controllers doesn't fit together the same, allowing the angle and extra resistance to cause the shoulder button to lock up, where it wouldn't have on other controllers.

and replacing just the black piece with one with the old standard diameter fixes that issue; you can press the shoulder buttons in at the biggest angle physically possible, and it won't lock up.

i do think that even this problem can be overcome with just wear and tear and letting your hands adjust to it, but i have observed and tested for a real difference in the hardware associated with the common white controller complaint of locking shoulder buttons.

so it's not really fair to say that they're factually exactly the same (when that's not necessarily true) just because a lot of the complaints do happen to be anecdotal and/or hearsay.

Excellent analysis on the controller differences TobiasXK. Recognizing that different users will have a different grip/hand positioning is especially worth mentioning. GameCube controllers look the same on the outside, but your hands/feet/tentacles are the missing piece of data in the "this-controller-is-so-bad-don't-buy-it" debate.

I want to take this time to fully endorse this particular white controller, especially for those of you who have a worn-in/faulty controller, or if you just want one for parts. I worry that mine will eventually die, so I bought two, just in case they happened to be decent. Here's my take:

NOTE: My hands are massive, and devoid of hand-fat. I hold the controller with index fingers wrapping up along the curve across the top, with index tip/first knuckle in the center of the cups of the L/R triggers. Rest of the fingers rest naturally along the back of the handles. I gently "pinch" the controller laterally at the tops of the handles, just below the raised portion that houses left analog/face buttons. These left and right sections of the controller rest directly between the index and middle knuckle of the palm flesh. If you don't hold the controller the way I do, your results/preference may vary.

This thing feels incredibly good. I saw some bad reviews on the amazon page, and was really worried I might get a controller with a super-loose analog stick, faulty buttons, etc. Imagine my surprise when I wrap my mitts around this beauty.

One of the features I always take note of is left analog stick stiffness. The data I was given back in 2005 was "stiffness, from stiff to loose: platinum > black > indigo > spice." To clarify, this assumes a similar level of wear on controllers used in any test/sample (all of them are new in packaging, or all of them have been [ab]used for 800-1000 hours). Even today, my two platinum sticks are noticeably stiffer than the two black ones. I have a strong preference to a stiff analog stick.

Now, it's been years since I touched a GameCube analog stick fresh out of the packaging, but the one on this white gamecube controller I just opened is quite rigid, which I prefer. Not so stiff that it squeeks, but definitely higher resistance than the two platinum models I've owned. C-stick is slightly less rigid, but I believe this has been consistent across controller revisions. C-stick also has a nice texture to it, similar to the surface of a dualshock analog stick, but finer (I can't recall whether new-in-box GameCube controllers featured this back in the day).

L and R triggers feel identical in springiness, but the click sensation at the bottom feels extremely tight compared to my black/platinum. To phrase it another way, the amount of pressure needed to depress the triggers until they "click" feels demonstrably higher.

A B X and Y buttons feel absolutely the same, D-pad feels like garbage (I have never touched a D-pad on any GameCube controller that didn't), but curiously, the start button has slightly more resistence than my old controllers, *and* it has a texture to it. Again, first fresh GameCube controller in almost a decade, so I don't remember if Start had a texture.

Finally, the Z button has a more pronounced click when depressed, and feels less spongy than the older ones, probably a difference in wear.

So there you have it. Whether you're on the fence about them, or just mildly curious, I hope my breakdown is useful for purchase reinforcement, or at least some debate fodder.

 

[DerfMidWest]

just take out the springs in your triggers.
it's fairly common for people who use white controllers (and in general).

 

[Chuckeeeh]

I have this same problem with my emerald green/blue controller on my L button. I think I will replace the black base with one on my purple controller, which is old and the triggers work great, but does anybody know of a guide for doing this replacement? I really don't want to screw up my controller.

UPDATE: I went ahead and replaced the black base from my old purple controller to my emerald blue/green controller, and it fixed the problem about 90%. Only at extreme angles does the L button get sticky and lock up. Another difference between the controllers I noticed was that the black base on the old purple controller had a lever on it; the new emerald one had only a spring, and no lever. I left the lever when I did the switch, and it does make the button feel slightly different, but I favor the feel with the lever.