Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,632
Not really sure how to preface this as I suck at writing.
Umbreon asking me to test out certain things got me interested in this project and some others (like b-throw) that I'll be researching at later points.
So here is something important that I have learned about Sheik's d-throw via testing in dolphin.
- The best DI to get the farthest away from sheik is not straight away, instead it is down and away.
here is a "side by side" comparison of marth being down throw by sheik at 100%. The first one will be marth DIing straight away and the second one will be shown to be DIing down and away. The frame that this captured is the frame before sheik becomes actionable.
as these pictures show, the second marth is lower and farther out than the first marth.
I'm not going to say that DIing down and away is always the "best" DI but it will force you to be farther away from sheik and closer to the ground.
If players start incorporating this DI on d-throw then F-tilt is never a true follow up.
The only attack that becomes guaranteed is Dash attack. Below, I went through and tested every character (sorted by gravity) as to when Dash attack starts being a combo and when it stops comboing. MOST of these are actually frame tight. too early or late and they'll be able to jump out.
I address what happens if you don't want to DI as far as possible away when you get to G&W.
No follow ups ever guaranteed
no follow ups guaranteed
no follow ups guaranteed
No follow ups
No follow ups guaranteed just barely. if they DI only out you can get dash attack starting at 40% until ~58% if youre frame perfect.
If you get a grab at 0% any sub optimal DI lets sheik's jab connect. frame perfect timing if they DI away.
Dash attack 0% - 130%
at almost all %s it is a frame perfect link. end dash too early and it will miss, dash too long and he can jump out. at 0% you must dash for exactly 1 frame. at 130% you must dash for exactly 18 frames.
Dash attack starts working at 65% and ends at 90%
at 65% its dash for 10 frames exactly otherwise you'll miss or he'll tech
at 85%-90% its dash for 14-15 frames
and its frame perfect at every %
anything below 65% or above 90% will get you close
but no cigar
No follow ups
No Follow ups
No follow ups
No follow ups
No follow ups
No follow ups
10% - 55%
No follow ups
No follow ups
No follow ups
0-22%
no follow ups
0-115%
not a true combo but Ike's jump animation causes him to get hit.
No follow ups
0-86%
0-130%
Snake's hitstun animation isn't too kind to him
0-85%
0-125%
0-75%
after about 65% it stops becoming a true combo but mario doesn't have anything fast enough to get out until after 75% including DJ. if you DJ, you'll just burn it the frame you get hit.
0-112%
0-103%
Same as Mario, don't double jump before 103%. up-b also does nothing to help
here is where most of you ask "well, what if I don't want to go that low? can I go higher to avoid dash attack by DIing out?"
the answer is yes, but.... Fair is still possible
G&W can not do anything out of this (I messed up too, he shouldn't get out of stun at all)
0-104% you can always beat DJ coming out by 1 frame.
105%-130% you will hit frame 1 of DJ.
0-40%
0-114%
0-80%
0-110%
0-65%
unusually long dash time
0-65% possible
65% - 75% you will trade with frame perfect nair if you are frame perfect. DJ is too slow for her. Dash for 11-12 frames
75% - 95% you slide under her nair and DJ is still too slow. technically possible to airdodge out. dash for 12-15 frames
95%+ peach can finally DJ out
0-75%
0-85%
0 - 25%
25% - 55% oddly enough, strong hit isn't guaranteed but weak hit is even though its not a true combo due to zelda's tumble animation. if Zelda buffers a jump, strong hit will connect if she delays jump, she'll get hit by weak hit.
Nayru's love doesn't let you escape since sheik is under you.
if zelda does nothing
if zelda jumps out without buffering
0-57%
Dash for 1-5 frames for 0%
10 frames for 40%
11 for 57%
0-25%
0% Dash for 1-4 frames
20% dash for exactly 6 frames
0-15%
Don't dash under 4 frames. you'll just miss
Umbreon asking me to test out certain things got me interested in this project and some others (like b-throw) that I'll be researching at later points.
So here is something important that I have learned about Sheik's d-throw via testing in dolphin.
- The best DI to get the farthest away from sheik is not straight away, instead it is down and away.
here is a "side by side" comparison of marth being down throw by sheik at 100%. The first one will be marth DIing straight away and the second one will be shown to be DIing down and away. The frame that this captured is the frame before sheik becomes actionable.
as these pictures show, the second marth is lower and farther out than the first marth.
I'm not going to say that DIing down and away is always the "best" DI but it will force you to be farther away from sheik and closer to the ground.
If players start incorporating this DI on d-throw then F-tilt is never a true follow up.
The only attack that becomes guaranteed is Dash attack. Below, I went through and tested every character (sorted by gravity) as to when Dash attack starts being a combo and when it stops comboing. MOST of these are actually frame tight. too early or late and they'll be able to jump out.
I address what happens if you don't want to DI as far as possible away when you get to G&W.
No follow ups ever guaranteed
no follow ups guaranteed
no follow ups guaranteed
No follow ups
No follow ups guaranteed just barely. if they DI only out you can get dash attack starting at 40% until ~58% if youre frame perfect.
If you get a grab at 0% any sub optimal DI lets sheik's jab connect. frame perfect timing if they DI away.
Dash attack 0% - 130%
at almost all %s it is a frame perfect link. end dash too early and it will miss, dash too long and he can jump out. at 0% you must dash for exactly 1 frame. at 130% you must dash for exactly 18 frames.
Dash attack starts working at 65% and ends at 90%
at 65% its dash for 10 frames exactly otherwise you'll miss or he'll tech
at 85%-90% its dash for 14-15 frames
and its frame perfect at every %
anything below 65% or above 90% will get you close
but no cigar
No follow ups
No Follow ups
No follow ups
No follow ups
No follow ups
No follow ups
10% - 55%
No follow ups
No follow ups
No follow ups
0-22%
no follow ups
0-115%
not a true combo but Ike's jump animation causes him to get hit.
No follow ups
0-86%
0-130%
Snake's hitstun animation isn't too kind to him
0-85%
0-125%
0-75%
after about 65% it stops becoming a true combo but mario doesn't have anything fast enough to get out until after 75% including DJ. if you DJ, you'll just burn it the frame you get hit.
0-112%
0-103%
Same as Mario, don't double jump before 103%. up-b also does nothing to help
here is where most of you ask "well, what if I don't want to go that low? can I go higher to avoid dash attack by DIing out?"
the answer is yes, but.... Fair is still possible
G&W can not do anything out of this (I messed up too, he shouldn't get out of stun at all)
0-104% you can always beat DJ coming out by 1 frame.
105%-130% you will hit frame 1 of DJ.
0-40%
0-114%
0-80%
0-110%
0-65%
unusually long dash time
0-65% possible
65% - 75% you will trade with frame perfect nair if you are frame perfect. DJ is too slow for her. Dash for 11-12 frames
75% - 95% you slide under her nair and DJ is still too slow. technically possible to airdodge out. dash for 12-15 frames
95%+ peach can finally DJ out
0-75%
0-85%
0 - 25%
25% - 55% oddly enough, strong hit isn't guaranteed but weak hit is even though its not a true combo due to zelda's tumble animation. if Zelda buffers a jump, strong hit will connect if she delays jump, she'll get hit by weak hit.
Nayru's love doesn't let you escape since sheik is under you.
if zelda does nothing
if zelda jumps out without buffering
0-57%
Dash for 1-5 frames for 0%
10 frames for 40%
11 for 57%
0-25%
0% Dash for 1-4 frames
20% dash for exactly 6 frames
0-15%
Don't dash under 4 frames. you'll just miss
Last edited:
