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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

h!tboxexplo!ter

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meh then what he lands and i grab him or throw needles? most cfs i play dont upb out of their shields. i like rolling at random times and if punished them before so the guy who normally would try it doesnt do it anymore cuz thats a free dthrow-> gay
 

SPAWN

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spaw#333
Amsah, are you going to Apex in September (I think that's when it is?)?
 

SPAWN

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August, even better. I hope to play lots of friendlies instead of 3 next time. ;) I completely understand if it's too expensive since you did just spend a whole lot on Pound.

Is anyone really good at 2v1's as Sheik? I am so bad at them lol. Whoever is good at them what do you try and do? Kill whoever's at high percent would probably be the first matter of business? After that do you just kind of avoid being in the middle and grabbing? Is your main strat for fighting to just kind of jump and react (using as close to lagless moves as possible... so probably fair) to whatever your opponents try and do?

Thanks in advance for any help. :D
 

pockyD

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yeah, just try to wall and pressure with low-risk moves... aerials, tilts, etc

grabs are a pretty big no-no, and dsmashes should be used with extreme caution

and don't be afraid to camp that edge!
 

GooeyBanana

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So I was goofing around on Yoshi's today vs. a CPU Fox and I Scar jump'd to needle onstage to grab and uh yeah...has anyone done this in a match before? Never seen it, but I'd love if it has actually been used before xD
 

SPAWN

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I guess my question should be does anyone maybe have some Isai doubles vids favorited for 2v1 scenarios? If not I'll just go around and do some searching one of these days.
 

SPAWN

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Thanks, Sveet. If anyone else has anything to contribute feel free. ;)
 

Tyson651

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getting waveshined by fox, what double stick DI do u prefer?

towards or away? or something else?
 

SPAWN

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*agrees with Nihonjin*

If you're at high damage you might as well as sdi away. If you're at lower damage you can actually get sent the other way by sdi'ing in twice... most Foxes mess up then. The only Fox who's been able to do it vs me and continue comboing was Eggm when he's playing well/warmed up.
 

Tyson651

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^Regardless of where you DI, if the Fox predicts it he can follow you so your best bet is to mix it up..=]
*agrees with Nihonjin*

If you're at high damage you might as well as sdi away. If you're at lower damage you can actually get sent the other way by sdi'ing in twice... most Foxes mess up then. The only Fox who's been able to do it vs me and continue comboing was Eggm when he's playing well/warmed up.
oh ok, thanks a lot guys.

and another question. the fox/falco is going to sweetspot the ledge so that a dsmash wont work. u dont have enough time to grab the ledge, what do u think is the best option, or is there any? i find myself in that situation sometimes.
 

pockyD

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so what throw the control stick right/left quickly twice as your hit?
i'm not 100% certain but I've heard that each SDI input needs to differ by at least 90 degrees

so it'd be rolling your stick in at least a quarter circle (probably from a bottom-side corner to a top-side corner)
 

Diakonos

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For some reason I'm reminded of some "normal" guy going into a weird club (or bar, or whatever) in those cliché, terrible movies and looking all discreet. And then someone saying "Come here often?" and that awkward pause.

I digress.


Good.


Hitboxes:

Bair is ultra-disjointed at her extended leg but the rest of the hitbox sucks for Sheik standard. It actually loses to other high-priority moves and sometimes without even trading. The nerve of them.

Nair is awkward, don't use it. If you do use it, remember that it has no priority except below and above the front leg, kind of, and behind the hind leg. There is no horizontal priority so to speak of, so if you're beating moves with it, the culprit is likely the speed difference; frame 3 is fast.

Fair starts at her head and around her head. Then it becomes an arm.

D-tilt goes under everything somehow. D-smash has a frame of invincibility in the startup. F-tilt is slower than you think when you're actually playing Sheik because the disjointed part of the hitbox works like a Marth hitbox in that it drags. Only it's not attached to a sword either.

How to combo Fox:

Comboing Fox sucks. Unless he leaps into your U-tilt or something, nothing actually works on him at low percent. Mercifully, he can be tech chased. You're mainly just trying to link anything to grab or grab in isolation and then go from there.

From 0 - 31 you can D-throw tech chase and everything will work in terms of guaranteed gayness. Jab resets work up to 31. If he SDIs out then oh poopy but the ASDI Jab crap doesn't kick in and give him the option to roll wakeup or attack wakeup until 32.

So basically just react to the tech in place, boost grab the rolls, and Jab reset the non-techs.

32 onwards is the same, only you then have to deal with attack wakeup, roll wakeup and react a bit faster overall because of them. Still nothing that can't be managed. If your F-tilt is doing 7% (ie. it's not staled to 6%) you can F-tilt on non-tech and launch them in stun. If your F-tilt is staled (even just once to 6%) you'll just lift them off the ground and they'll be in neutral position and that's not useful at all.

On attack wakeups, you can U-smash OoS if you like.

At about 35 - 40 it becomes a good idea to dash attack and just tech chase that way. Remember to keep your distance so you can dash attack them when they DI away and tech in place if you intend to just spam dash attacks. Otherwise you will have to regrab at close quarters. Or F-tilt. Or D-smash. D-smash is sometimes unexpected and will go unteched because they will try to tech something else, in which case D-smash combos to more D-smash. Somewhat effective on grounded opponents, but situational.

At 45 - 50 Dash Attack is better than grab in every way except Dash Attack can be ground teched. It will also combo into U-tilt if they don't DI away at that point.

There was some U-throw gimmick I discussed earlier in this thread but I don't feel like dredging it up.

Covering tech in place or non-tech you can either react with regrab, D-smash, fresh F-tilt, dash away dash back in dash attack, or predict either and U-smash or whatever.

If they tech to the edge, I'm finding D-smash more consistent than Dash Attack on good opponents because of DI away. Often you don't get a Fair. Grab or D-smash near the edge seems better than Dash Attack if they know to DI away. Otherwise Dash Attack --> follow is obviously better.


If Falcon DIs anywhere but away when you D-throw, U-tilt is a natural combo. You can also combo D-throw Dash Attack on him at like 120% if he DIs away.

D-throw regrab > D-throw F-tilt at low percents on DI away against characters like Marth and the Marios.

On Luigi, Samus, Jigglypuff you can always combo D-throw Uair on any DI. But you need speed out of the throw and good timing. You can, however, legitimately combo a bunch of moves this way and be really gay.

Needle --> grab is largely a gimmick. Don't spam it. It is effective in moderation but usually you can find better means of procuring a grab.

If you ever have the option of comboing into grab as opposed to comboing into a tilt, unless the opponent has no jump the grab will almost always provide a bigger payoff. Even then, sometimes I'd grab anyway because the extra percent or whatever will setup an easier edgeguard or I can guarantee a familiar edgeguard situation.

Crouching max-ranged grabs is good.

Sheik's throw combos are almost as good as 0-60 + Finisher chain throws.


Because she's taboo.


Hey stranger, come here often?


Yes. But people are slow and nobody will ever learn how to do stuff quickly and precisely out of throw, ever.


Up + Away would be like, slight DI away or something. I phrased it bad.
<3 kk. I didn't see this til just now. Thanks everything man.
 

GooeyBanana

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So if what I'm reading is right Pocky, if I was to SDI behind a Fox at low % when he's waveshining me, I should DI downwards/upwards diagonally behind the Fox, then whichever direction I didn't use before diagonally behind him and that's how it works? I have never gotten a good understanding of SDI >_< Am I doing this all with just the control stick and not the C-stick?
 

SPAWN

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For sdi'ing I just slam a direction when I get hit... so when I'm trying to get hit the other way (say they're waveshining me to the left) I would slam right for the first shine and then right again for the second shine. It might take more than 2 shines... I don't remember how many tbh. It doesn't take too long is all I remember.
 

pockyD

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So if what I'm reading is right Pocky, if I was to SDI behind a Fox at low % when he's waveshining me, I should DI downwards/upwards diagonally behind the Fox, then whichever direction I didn't use before diagonally behind him and that's how it works? I have never gotten a good understanding of SDI >_< Am I doing this all with just the control stick and not the C-stick?
that's my understanding of it; and it'd for getting multiple SDIs on the same hit

and yes, control stick, not c-stick

For sdi'ing I just slam a direction when I get hit... so when I'm trying to get hit the other way (say they're waveshining me to the left) I would slam right for the first shine and then right again for the second shine. It might take more than 2 shines... I don't remember how many tbh. It doesn't take too long is all I remember.
i don't understand; if you SDI'd the first one but he still got over in time to shine you, why would the SDI on the second shine be any different?

or are you really just waiting for him to mess up?
 

Tyson651

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Yes, I played PP, didn't go much different than against Zhu..=]

The one I had the most trouble with, Lucky, but because he overwhelmed me.

The best I played, Mango. His spacies are definitely the smartest, fastest and most effecient I've ever played, there's no doubt in my mind he's best Fox and Falco in the world. Which puts my heart at ease because I know I'm not losing to them (or any other spaces) in a tournament
anymore
..:embarrass
did u play jman at all?

how is his fox compared to lucky's?
 

GooeyBanana

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Feebas isn't useless....he actually has more moves than Splash, Tackle, and Flail =P And a Magikarp can make due with that moveset in 1st evo-only tourney...just adamant/jolly nature him up and give him a focus sash. Flail ftw? Prolly not good enough still xP...

I've come to realize that I don't like playing against Zeldas...sure, I can dthrow -> fair and needle camp, but everytime my heads up my butt, I try to challenge her in midair with like a fair or bair and eat a sweetspot fair/bair from her instead =(
 

Jolteon

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I got a question about Fox vs Sheik, how well does the Falco specific edgeguard shown here work on Fox? Basically, I want to know if it's at all viable and what a Fox's options are to escape it.

Feebas isn't useless....he actually has more moves than Splash, Tackle, and Flail =P And a Magikarp can make due with that moveset in 1st evo-only tourney...just adamant/jolly nature him up and give him a focus sash. Flail ftw? Prolly not good enough still xP...

I've come to realize that I don't like playing against Zeldas...sure, I can dthrow -> fair and needle camp, but everytime my heads up my butt, I try to challenge her in midair with like a fair or bair and eat a sweetspot fair/bair from her instead =(
Level 5 Magikarp with fully powered Flail only does 52%-61% of a level 5 0 def/hp ev Scyther's hp bar, start fighting normal resists with higher defenses (Lileep) and the viability (or lack of it, rather) of Magikarp becomes very quickly apparent. Feebas isn't as bad but it's still terrible.
 

ZoSo

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Fun fact: If you repeatedly utilit Zelda's shield, she can't do anything because her grab and jump are both slow as molasses.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
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you mean running off and nairing?

its pretty good, genearlly though they wont dair again right after

its good tos top sweet spot illusions.


@Zoso: Well I'll be a monkeys left buttcheek.
 
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