Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Nihonjin]

I already explained that you don't tilt approaching docs pills. I posted it already, look it up, cause I don't pander to people who ask me to (re)post what I already explained.

I do it, it works.

You don't know the match up.

Yes I do.

Good job. I have played it for hours and hours and hours.

So let me get this straight, you play the Doc matchup for 'hours' with some crappy Doc player you know and think you're an expert on the subject, but refuse to believe what I have to say about Peach, even though I've played the match up for days in a row against the best ****ing Peach on the planet?

How am I supposed to take you seriously..?

I have read what doc is supposed to do as well. Guess what??

Guides are nothing more than an opinion.

No sheiks tilt pillrush and fail to get punished 50% of the time. You are in lag, they're not. While you are tiliting, they are lagging. Your tilt hits the pill first, and it can't hit them. you lag even more, while they still have time to do whatever.

Which is why you don't always tilt. You look at the situation and bair, fair, nair, tilt, shield, needle or move out of the way.

cause what you say is usually garbage (which you back up with hypothetical situations that can be overcome).

Ok, point me to something I said that's bull**** that you know how to overcome.

Your whole thing about getting on the edge vs peach is garbage because you can get back on the edge and you just refuse to admit that.

Yeah? How? I can't do it so enlighten me.

If you can't get back on the ledge, then don't get hit off. Counterpick rainbow cruise or something with no real ledge so edge guarding is not a factor for most of the game.

I'd rather just switch characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Ku_y1YByU

In this video where sheik dominates, mew2king doesn't attack the pills, he avoids them, runs away half the match, and wins with fair, bair, needles, and grabs when he gets them. No approaching or fighting the pills.....

Just because M2k doesn't do it and wins, doesn't mean it's a bad thing to do. I can link you to videos of Masashi ****** people with Fox without waveshining, does that mean it's bad to waveshine? Of course not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCQNDLawJZY

Notice how hard this sheik is getting **** when he tries to approach the pill rush. @1:10, sheik even bairs the pill rush, but gets grabbed anyway because doc has no lag while sheik was busy attacking a pill.

The Sheik isn't getting ***** for approaching, but for approaching wrong. He just ran into the pills, he didn't hit them or shield them.

And the '****' (it wasn't even ****, just a grab..) wasn't because he bair'd the pill, but because he spaced it horribly.

2:27 Sheik tilts a standing pill from a doc. instead of charging two needles/going to a platform and gaining an advantage. Right after, sheik tries to ftilit a badly spaced pill rush, when she could have done better things to kill (run under?)

It's good that he tilted the pill, it's neutralizes the situation. There was nothing wrong with it.
As a matter of fact, it created a grab situation for him right afterwards but he messed up by ftilting again.

If he ran back and charged two needles it wouldn't have done anything.

3:55 - Sheik stays on the platform when pill rush comes. no damage, she is close quarters with doc. Without attacking them!!

If he walked under the pill or ftilted he would've been in a better position. Because then he could Dash dance grab the Docs attempted aerial.

4:01 - Sheik uses PLATFORMS!!! lolz. she doesn't pointlessly attack a pill.. when doc was standing right there, waiting for it.. if sheik had tilted, dsmash right there for doc, stock without great DI.

Just looking at the way you phrased this sentence makes me not want to bother explaining anything to you.

You don't pointlessly tilt you ******, no matter what strategy you have, it's not going to work 100% of the time when you're dealing with people. You have to look at the situation.

Match one - M2k eats pills all day. You can hear the fairs starting up as he tries to hit them on some of the pills. Doesn't work.

You can hear the fairs start up, but they're not out yet. In other words, M2k's timing was just horrible. That doesn't mean it's impossible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HNxTjX6Kfo

Watch as shroomed, a doc main, who pretty much should know the match up from docs perspective (right?) jumps over pills.

No. Just because you main a character doesn't mean you're suddenly an expert playing against it.

Also, just because the masses play in a certain way, doesn't mean it's the only effective way to play.

The point: You're wrong. Deal with it.
In the match up, the situations where sheiks don't attack the pills and either 1) go to platforms or 2) run through and jump over pills turn out well for sheik.

You haven't even refuted anything I said. All you did was show me videos of people approaching badly or not at all.

 

[Dorsey]

Wow I didn't see that before that we posted the same thing KK, my bad man. When I looked I only saw frame 6..

 

[soap]

all this activity makes it hard to keep up with this thread

can we just go back to talking about anime?

i need something new to watch lol

 

[Nihonjin]

Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood..=D?
Not really new, but it's awesome..=]

 

[Teczer0]

all this activity makes it hard to keep up with this thread

can we just go back to talking about anime?

i need something new to watch lol

LOL what?

its worse for me, I just woke up now to see all this.

Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood..=D?
Not really new, but it's awesome..=]

I'm anxiously waiting for this to finish or at least close to finish

Also regarding to the reverse fair....

How do you aim that? Like I try to hit a few times in friendlies but I'm still a little fuzzy on how to actually hit with a reverse fair. How are you guys consistently landing the back part of the red circle >_<


God reverse nair is like 8000000x easier

 

[Nihonjin]

^lol To be honest, I have no idea.

I was playing against Overtriforce (Spanish Sheik) and he did it to me a couple of times, and I just copy his exact spacing and timing from when he invert fair'd me. I don't actually aim..

 

[Tero.]

Dr. Dead is pro at reverse Fair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5nSj90njZg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaCgkOBCBeA

 

[pockyD]

just practice vs cpu falcons or ganons

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The marth i did it to was pretty bad. I knew he was going to upb high (because i had the edge) so it was a simple matter of aiming the hitbox where i knew he was going.

on the peach, she had upbed high because i took her jump and float. as she was coming down, trying to bait me to get off the edge i double jumped toward her and reverse faired.

I like it against peach and ganon a LOT because those characters come back from bair (DI it up and recover again). Its actually pretty easy to get on peach when she is using upb because the hitbox is slightly above you and in your front, so you go under the umbrella and inside her with little danger.

 

[DJRome]

dr. dead could be faster lol idk, reverse fair gets pretty good johns such as "ur so lucky" "what the hell the game effed me over" "yeah, you meant to do that" "**** that hitbox changes based on situation"

 

[Magus420]

Sheik's Fair naturally starts above her head.

The reverse part is the back part of the hitbox (the red blob). I'm not sure if it's half of the hitbox, or not, or whether it varies for the move, so don't ask.

There's a reverse hitbox on all three hitboxes of the animation, though, so there's a lot of ways to get it too.

THE MORE YOU KNOW

There aren't 'reverse' hitboxes. You get a reverse hit simply by having the center of their character be located behind the center of your character when it connects. Naturally, it's a bit easier to get the reverse hit on frames 5 and 6 (5 being positioned closer towards Sheik's back, and 6 which includes an interpolation from frame 5 to frame 6's position), since they can be further behind Sheik while still being within range of the hitbox to be hit by it.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

so i guess its basically the red part behind her head then. reverse fair might be dirty if u ledgehop one against an edgeguarder, i personally like bair and my lazy move is a nair.

best anime ever.... bebop--- getchu some

 

[DJRome]

so this is why uthrow to shine sends some forward and some backward with no di. . . ha, trouble for the fatasses

 

[soap]

and I just copy his exact spacing and timing from when he invert fair'd me.

lol u can copy techniques after seeing them once? so broken

 

[GOD!]

You haven't even refuted anything I said. All you did was show me videos of people approaching badly or not at all.

Lol ****

You're hopeless.
Sorry sheik boards, keep talking about anime or manga (idk what the difference is).

 

[DtJ Jungle]

So...

Saki is broken.

 

[Teczer0]

Lol ****

You're hopeless.
Sorry sheik boards, keep talking about anime or manga (idk what the difference is).

Anime is a show, and manga is comic essentially.

And sorry guys I would like to use this thread for actual questions so I made my other thread a social thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258438

If you guys wanna talk about random things can you go there so newer members don't get confused? I'd really appreciate it

Magus - So basically all I have to do is have their character right behind my character?

 

[Nihonjin]

lol u can copy techniques after seeing them once? so broken

If it's just spacing and timing I can copy the exact movement (unless it's too technical)..

Lol ****

You're hopeless.

I've looked at your examples and I've explained why what you said doesn't disprove any of my claims. So, like I said earlier, if all you're going to do is insult me, then do me a favor and just shut the **** up. :embarrass

 

[Teczer0]

Amsah/God - You both should think about ignore lists.

Just throwin out suggestions.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

your modding is cute

why arent you on AIM

 

[GOD!]

Amsah/God - You both should think about ignore lists.

Just throwin out suggestions.

Suggestion taken. I swear to god, reading his posts makes me feel dumber.. he could run for office if he moved to the US, he's so good at discounting actual advice with nonsense.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

did you swear to yourself?

 

[Nihonjin]

Amsah/God - You both should think about ignore lists.

Just throwin out suggestions.

Nah, I don't ignore people, no matter how dumb they are.

Suggestion taken. I swear to god, reading his posts makes me feel dumber..

They should. I've been pointing out your lack of intelligence ever since your video thread.

he could run for office if he moved to the US, he's so good at discounting actual advice with nonsense.

And you're exactly like the current Republicans.

You claim I'm dumb and that everything I say is bull****, when asked to explain why, you come up with some ******** story that has nothing to do with anything I said. And when I call you out on that, you go back to calling me dumb..

 

[-ACE-]

ignore this

 

[Dorsey]

LOL what?

How do you aim that? Like I try to hit a few times in friendlies but I'm still a little fuzzy on how to actually hit with a reverse fair. How are you guys consistently landing the back part of the red circle >_<

I think that frame 6, the middle gif, shows the back of the circle in which the reverse fair hitbox serves it's use although all frames should do it; 7 being the least likely. To me, it actually feels like I hit them with the latter part of the hitbox when I'm doing it though. Anyway, sheik's back is exposed when using the reverse fair when spaced even the least bit improperly so then you would be approaching with a hurtbox instead of a hitbox. No doubt the reverse fair has it's use, I just don't see how it could be considered the more viable option most of the time...

oh wow... i just saw magus's post. Kind of drunk.... oh well

 

[Lordydennek]

Suggestion taken. I swear to god, reading his posts makes me feel dumber.. he could run for office if he moved to the US, he's so good at discounting actual advice with nonsense.

Dont insult the Democrats my friend. I hope that was a stab at politics in general.

ill ask again. nair against peach? is it good? I am having problems with that fight.

also. I used to ftilt cfalcon as an edgegaurd but now we're trading hits...ftilt and kneee....cant do that. what am i doin wrong?

 

[TForce]

against captain falcon, i would ledge hop the bair... you can use the nair/fair if he's comming back from above...and if timed well the dsmash can stop him from getting the ledge if he's recovering from below...you have to be right on the edge when you dsmash tho...

 

[Teczer0]

Dont insult the Democrats my friend. I hope that was a stab at politics in general.

ill ask again. nair against peach? is it good? I am having problems with that fight.

also. I used to ftilt cfalcon as an edgegaurd but now we're trading hits...ftilt and kneee....cant do that. what am i doin wrong?

I definitely use Nair against Peach.

I often use it ledgehopping to take advantage that the Nair hits strong with the back part of sheik's nair.

I use ftilt when CF is coming from above, that way CF either DIs in to you and goes straight up or DIs away and goes off stage.

If you mean he double jump knees you outta your b-throw then you can iirc turn around and dsmash, it should hit falcon out of his knee than you can just run off double jump nair and kill him or whatever.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

lordy i think nair is useful but id rather approach with the fair, but maybe thats just me (on peach). tforce If im lazy and dont have too much damage ill trade sheiks nair (gotta jump out there and land on him) with whatever he pleases, he usually wont make it back (on cf). Also f#$k politics, that **** is stupid and sickening.

 

[GOD!]

speaking of the puff sheik matchup.. it looks like teczero has hbox in his pool.

Also question: I was wondering what safe things there are after fast falled fair. I usually sh ffall a fair on someones shield and jab right after it, sometimes once, sometimes twice, and then go for a grab. It rarely gets punished. i've seen people use dsmash after ward, but Idk if that's safe or not. and ftilt works, but if it hits their shield, it doesn't really lead to anything, cause they can roll or jump away and you can't punish.

This is in the context of the falcon/fox matchup. Either of them. Or all matchups, I just wonder if there's frame data for how punishable a jab would be (like what is the shield stun of a jab).

 

[Teczer0]

Unfortunately I don't have Hbox in my pool woulda been nice though.

Hungrybox entered as Hbox apparently *shrugs*

None of those options you listed are technically safe. I usually do a mix of fair then dash back, jab or grab. Though I usually use dash back or technically fox trot back.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

anyone have any useful suggestions for making shorthops easier? right now it seems that just doing a glancing hit on my x button is the best

 

[Wiggins]

I have a question for a shiek buddy of mine. What is the best strategy against Luigi for Shiek? I main Luigi and he's having trouble with the nairs and floatiness of the little italian plumber. What do you recommend for the situation? I tried to give him advice, but I really don't know Shiek well enough to give that great of advice. =]

 

[GOD!]

in other news, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5WIJbE1Gfo
fsmash and dair?

 

[Spife]

anyone have any useful suggestions for making shorthops easier? right now it seems that just doing a glancing hit on my x button is the best

yes, go to training mode, put speed to 2x, try short hopping.
It gets mad easier after that.
Wups, iirc you gotta let go of jump by the frame the character would be in the air in order to do a sh vs a fj. I forget what frame that is for shiek (2-3 right?). Practicing to do this at twice the speed makes doing it at normal speed easy, especially if you try really hard to sh at 2x. I'm sure the bunny hood would make it even harder.

Edit:

did you swear to yourself?

lulz

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

god! platform cahing with dair is old news , and i fsmash u a bit . But seriously i think mang0 things cause he can not cause theyre good.

 

[gm jack]

It's true. With puff, he uses Fair way more than he should, as Bair is far less punishable. But he's Mango, and can pull it off anyway.

 

[CaptainEvilStomper9]

lol @ amsah always making god! look really dumb.

Puff ***** Sheik, she gets rested to easy.

 

[DJRome]

hey, i have spaceballs in my pool. what else should i do beside camp needles and bair against samus? also, what's stuff i should be avoiding or not doing that i normally can do?

 

[Nihonjin]

lol @ amsah always making god! look really dumb.

Puff ***** Sheik, she gets rested to easy.

Don't credit me..He's doing most of the work himself..:embarrass