Simikins
Nerfed
Sheik Shield Break & Optimal Follow Ups
_Tree
posted this video about Sheik’s optimal shield break/rest punish, and what he showed was very good, but there’s more…
Shield Break
After some testing I have found a reliable way to break shields using Sheik. All further testing was done by myself and @Wasserwipf who also made the GIF’s. The dude’s awesome ^_^
Grenade > UpSmash - Throw a grenade at the opponent, and if they shield it, run up and UpSmash.
Throw a grenade at your opponent, and if they shield it run up and UpSmash, hitting with both the Tipper hit and the Sourspot. Works only on characters who's shields are tall enough for the Tipper hit of UpSmash to still hit the shield after the grenade explosion.
Shield Break Punishes
After a shield break your opponent cannot act for a very long time, giving you the opportunity to get a kill. Sometimes killing isn’t possible, so in the description of each option I will highlight their usefulness in getting damage and/or killing.
Kill percentages vary between weight classes so I will show kill percents for each weight class. I will be using the weight list made by Kurogane Hammer, here. All testing was done on Wii U version, on final destination from the spawn point.
Not all of these follow ups work on every character, so I will state every character that each option does work on in the descriptions.
Charged Smash Attacks (WIP)- Fully charge a smash attack
Fully Charged Forward Smash
Damage: This option deals 18% damage.
Kill Potential: Here are the percents which this option kills for each weight class.
Balloonweight - 60%+
Featherweight - 55%+
Middleweight - 70%+
Heavyweight - 70%+
Super Heavyweight - %+
Works on: The entirety of the cast
Grenade > Bouncing Fish - Throw a grenade behind your opponent, and Bouncing Fish the moment you can act again.
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This is a true combo at all percents, and you do not need to change how you execute it AT ALL. Yes, 0% - 999%.
Damage: This option deals a solid 26% damage, and is the easiest to execute.
There are two methods of execution with this option.
Method 1: Perform as shown in this video by _Tree, by throwing the grenade behind them and doing Bouncing Fish the moment you can act again, and by activating the hitbox as soon as possible.
This method is best when going for raw damage. For killing use Method 2.
Kill Potential: Here are the percents it kills at for each weight class:
Balloonweight - 90%+
Featherweight - 100%+
Middleweight - 115%+
Heavyweight - 120%+
Super Heavyweight - 125%+
It is possible to make this option kill earlier than shown by jumping before the Bouncing Fish, and hitting them slightly later. The percentages shown are for the easiest possible way to do it.
Method 2: Push the opponent to the edge and throw a grenade behind them. Follow their trajectory with both of your jumps and then Bouncing Fish just as they come out of hitstun. At higher percentages only use your grounded jump. Use this method for kills at lower percents than normal. Do not activate BF early for this method.
Kill Potential: This option kills much earlier than the previous option.
Balloonweight - 55%+
Featherweight - 60%+
Middleweight - 65%+
Heavyweight - 70%+
Super Heavyweight - 75%+
Works on: The entirety of the cast.
Grenade > UpSmash - Throw a grenade behind your opponent, then run up and UpSmash.
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Throw a grenade behind your opponent the same way as shown in this video, then run up and UpSmash. If done correctly the explosion will true combo into tipper UpSmash. With this option there is no need to push the opponent to the ledge, as the UpSmash sends the opponent directly upwards.
This combo is true from 0% - 999%
On Super Heavyweights at 0% both hits of the UpSmash will connect after the grenade explosion.
Damage: This option deals 29% damage. 40% on Super Heavyweights at 0%.
Kill Potential: Here are the percents which this option kills for each weight class.
Balloonweight - 60%+
Featherweight - 70%+
Middleweight - 80%+
Heavyweight - 85%+
Super Heavyweight - 100%+
Works on: The entirety of the cast
Grenade > Footstool > Dair Spike - Throw a grenade behind your opponent, then footstool them out of the explosion, then Dair.
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See this thread for how to do it, and who it works on.
This kinda needs to be used near the ledge, and at 60% and higher. It can also be used onstage though, and if only the spike hit connects, it can combo into a tipper UpSmash, or an aerial.
It is possible to footstool the opponent out of the explosion at all percents, 0% - 999%.
Damage: This option is a kill option only. You kill yourself so… yeah.
Kill Potential: Kills at varying percentages, depending on the stages bottom blast zone and the characters recovery. See the linked thread for more info.
Void Combo - UpTilt > Dash Forward Full Hop Needles > Fair > BF
After the shield break, charge your hand of needles. Make sure to do this facing away from your opponent just in case you already have them charged.
Push them to the ledge, then UpTilt > Full hop Needles > Forward Air > Bouncing Fish.
Go to the Sheik Compendium here to see how to do full hop needles effectively.
This only works between 50% and 70% depending on the character, and only works on fast fallers.
To make this option kill slightly earlier, it is possible to do different variations of the combo, as @gsmVoiD void shows in the video embedded above.
Damage: This option deals 38% damage, but the point of this option is killing.
Kill Potential: See the video embedded above.
Works on: The 17 fastest fallers in the game. See this chart by @KuroganeHammer for the list.
Grenade > Aerial Needles > BF - Throw a grenade behind your opponent, then dash up and full hop needles into a followup.
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Push the opponent to the ledge, and throw a grenade behind them. Then dash forward, and do a full hop needles after the explosion. Go to this thread for how to do full hop needles properly.
What makes this option good is its combo potential. It can combo into all of Sheik’s aerials, (barring Down Air) a Footstool (which leads into Down air on certain characters), and Bouncing Fish.
It is also possible to something similar to a Void combo out of the grenade explosion, and that works the same way as a Void combo, on the same characters and at the same percents.
Details shown for this option are for if you choose to combo the needles into a Bouncing Fish.
More of a flashy option, than an optimal one, but it's always nice to get clips for the combo video right? ^.^
Damage: This option deals 38% damage.
Kill Potential: Kill percents for this option on each weight class are:
Balloonweight - 70%+
Featherweight - 75%+
Middleweight - 85%+
Heavyweight - 90%+
Super Heavyweight - 95%+
Works on: The entirety of the cast.
Grenade > Grab - Throw a grenade behind your opponent then run up and grab them after the explosion.
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Throw a grenade behind the opponent, then run up and grab them directly after the explosion. This option gives you many choices as to what you want to do, as you can do any of Sheik’s throw combos from this. This option is best used if you can’t net a kill at the percent the opponent is at, as it is best for damage, and it is difficult to get the grab. Once you get the timing down, this gets very easy, and it is even possible to grab the opponent out of the explosion at 999%.
Damage: If you pummel once then do a forward throw to Bouncing Fish after this option then it will deal 37% damage. Obviously the amount of damage you can get out of this depends on your ability to combo efficiently, and the opponents percentage.
Kill Potential: This option is primarily a damaging option, but you can go for kills at higher percents using Sheik’s down throw 50/50. See this thread for more info on the 50/50.
Works on: The entirety of the cast.
This list of shield break punishes is incomplete. Optimal punishes for shield breaks on certain stages, punishes involving the grenade shell, and punishes involving Jab locks will be added. If we have missed any obvious shield break punishes, please state them and they will be tested and added.
Any other shield break combos sheik can perform will be added to this thread also.
If you get any of this stuff in a game, please comment a link to a vid or GIF of it below, and I'll put it in this little section here:
_Tree
posted this video about Sheik’s optimal shield break/rest punish, and what he showed was very good, but there’s more…Shield Break
After some testing I have found a reliable way to break shields using Sheik. All further testing was done by myself and @Wasserwipf who also made the GIF’s. The dude’s awesome ^_^
Grenade > UpSmash - Throw a grenade at the opponent, and if they shield it, run up and UpSmash.
Throw a grenade at your opponent, and if they shield it run up and UpSmash, hitting with both the Tipper hit and the Sourspot. Works only on characters who's shields are tall enough for the Tipper hit of UpSmash to still hit the shield after the grenade explosion.
Information on the shield, and the moves involved in the shield break:
The Shield Break involves the Burst Grenade, (Sheik’s Side Special) Sheik’s UpSmash, and obviously, a Shield. The shield break is made possible by some special attributes that the two moves have, and there are many factors that affect if it will work or not.
To understand how the shield break works, you must first understand how a shield works.
Shield:
Shields have 50HP (As stated here by Frame Data god @KuroganeHammer).
All damage to shields is multiplied by 1.19. This means that practically they have 42HP.
When a shield is hit, it will push the player (still in their shield) backwards slightly. Every character also has a different size (as in, height and width) shield, depending on the character’s height and bulk.
A chart for different characters shield sizes can be found here.
When someone holds their shield it will slowly shrink, until it breaks. It shrinks at about 6HP per second, or 1HP every 10 frames.
At it’s full size, a shield covers the player’s entire body, but eventually it will shrink to the point that some of the player’s body is not covered, and it is possible to hit the part of them that is uncovered. This is known as a shield poke.
After a shield break, the player who’s shield broke will bounce up into the air, then fall back down and be stunned. The bounce after a shield break is called a shield jump. The shield jump changes in size depending on character, and their percentage. If the player is under a platform and the shield bounce/jump is high enough, they will land on the platform. If someone’s shield breaks when they are right by the ledge, and someone is under them when they shield jump they will be pushed off the stage, and will fall to their doom.
When the opponent is stunned, any interaction apart from walking past them will cause the stun to end. Footstools and windboxes (a windbox will not end the stun, but if the windbox pushes them offstage then their stun will end. included.
That is all the important stuff to do with shields, that applies to this shield break. For more info read this SmashWiki article.
Or watch this video.
And for even more info on shields which could come in useful, read this and this.
Now that you know all that, you have to learn a little bit about the two of Sheik’s moves that she uses to get the shield break.
Burst Grenade:
The Burst Grenade has 3 separate hitboxes. The Grenade Shell, when it is first thrown, the Suction of the grenade before it explodes, and of course the Explosion.
The Grenade Shell hit deals 1% damage and hits on frame 18 after the Side Special input, but is not involved in the shield break in normal circumstances. What we will be looking at is the suction and the explosion.
The Suction of the grenade has 2 ‘hits’ and each deals 1% damage and does not register as a hit in training mode. ‘Hit’ 1 is active from frame 28 - 38 after the Side Special input, and the second ‘hit’ from frame 39 - 48. It’s basically a windbox that damages you. The suction will suck players in.
The Explosion of the grenade deals 12% damage, and it hits on frame 49, right after the suction ‘hits’.
UpSmash:
The UpSmash has two separate hits. The Tipper, and the Sourspot. The tipper hit comes out on frame 11, and the sourspot on frames 14 - 15.
The Tipper deals 15% damage, and the hitbox is above Sheik’s head, when she throws her hands upwards.
The Sourspot deals 11% damage, and the hitbox is on Sheik’s sides, when she throws her hands back down.
Normally when the tipper is hit it will knock the opponent far enough that the sourspot (which comes out 3 frames after the tipper) doesn’t hit. On a shield, after the tipper hitting, the sourspot will also hit, as shields do not take knockback. This also works on Super Heavyweights such as Bowser, when they aren’t shielding. Up until 60%, a running UpSmash will result in both of the hits connecting (on Bowser).
Both hits of uncharged UpSmash together equals 26% damage.
That's just about all the information you need to know for how and why the shield break works. More info will be added as we discover new things about it.
Shields pretty much have 42HP (technically they have 50 but if you read the move specifics part you'd know what I mean).
Excluding the grenade shell at the start of the move (which shouldn't hit the shield) the burst grenade has 3 hits on shield. Two from the suction, and one from the explosion. Those three hits combined deal 14% damage.
When an UpSmash hits on shield, there are two hits. The tipper and the sourspot. Because the tipper hitbox is above Sheik's head, the character whose shield you are breaking must have a shield wide and tall enough that after being hit by the burst grenade the tipper still hits. The two hits of the UpSmash together deal 26% damage.
That is a total of 40% damage.
What allows the shield break to work is the fact that shields shrink by roughly 1HP every 10 frames. In the time between the grenade exploding and the first hit of UpSmash the shield shrinks enough that it will break after the UpSmash. It shrinks by enough that in some cases one of the suction hits doesn't even need to connect.
There are several different factors that affect how well the shield break works.
Factors that Affect the Shield Break:
The First Factor is Shield Size. The opponent’s shield has to be big enough (circumference, not HP) that after the explosion of the grenade the tipper hit of upsmash will still hit the shield. If the shield is not big enough then the UpSmash will shield poke, or not even hit. Because of this, the shield break only works on certain characters. These characters are listed below. There are slight variations to the shield break (and I mean VERY slight, but you have to be aware of them) which can make it work on characters it would not work on in normal circumstances. These variations will be listed where I show which characters it works on. Also, if the opponent’s shield is already slightly depleted from them holding it too much, or from constant shield pressure on your part, then it will not work.*
The Second Factor is Move Freshness. If the UpSmash becomes stale then it works slightly differently. The shield shrink gives you a bit of leeway, so if one of the moves is only slightly stale then it will still work, but if both are stale it will not. See this video by Beefy Smash Doods for information on move staling, and how to keep track of it. (Grenade does not stale as it can be picked up as an item).
The Third Factor is Spacing. If the opponent is shielding against the grenade and is not very close to it (but still close enough that the explosion would hit them if they weren’t shielding) then the suction hits of the grenade can deal enough shield pushback that the explosion does not hit. If they are at the ledge there is no danger of them being pushed away, unless you threw the grenade off the stage, in which case the explosion would not hit them anyway.
If you are a small distance from the opponent before you run in and UpSmash, then the shield could deplete more than needed, and not allow this to work on some of the characters who this normally works on. It is best to be close to them.
Not all of the factors affect every character that the Shield Break works on. Character specifics will be listed below.
Because of all the factors that affect it, and the very specific requirements, it only works on a small number of characters, making it not as good as we initially thought. It is still a VERY good mixup and should not be disregarded.
Works exactly as described:
Works in certain circumstances: (e.g. if they powershield the first suction hit)
(and maybe more)
A more complete list of different slight variations on the shield break, and who they work on, will be added.
Doesn’t work:
Everyone not stated
Escaping the Shield Break:
The shield break relies on the opponent continuing to hold shield after the grenade explosion. Most players will do this, if you use the grenade in the correct way. It is possible to roll, spotdodge, jump, or even simply unshield to avoid it.
It is also possible to continue to shield, but just hold their shield down so that the tipper of UpSmash pokes. Again, this is a mixup, not a guaranteed shield breaking combo.
Shield Break Punishes
After a shield break your opponent cannot act for a very long time, giving you the opportunity to get a kill. Sometimes killing isn’t possible, so in the description of each option I will highlight their usefulness in getting damage and/or killing.
Kill percentages vary between weight classes so I will show kill percents for each weight class. I will be using the weight list made by Kurogane Hammer, here. All testing was done on Wii U version, on final destination from the spawn point.
Not all of these follow ups work on every character, so I will state every character that each option does work on in the descriptions.
Charged Smash Attacks (WIP)- Fully charge a smash attack
Fully Charged Forward Smash
Damage: This option deals 18% damage.
Kill Potential: Here are the percents which this option kills for each weight class.
Balloonweight - 60%+
Featherweight - 55%+
Middleweight - 70%+
Heavyweight - 70%+
Super Heavyweight - %+
Works on: The entirety of the cast
Grenade > Bouncing Fish - Throw a grenade behind your opponent, and Bouncing Fish the moment you can act again.
This is a true combo at all percents, and you do not need to change how you execute it AT ALL. Yes, 0% - 999%.
Damage: This option deals a solid 26% damage, and is the easiest to execute.
There are two methods of execution with this option.
Method 1: Perform as shown in this video by _Tree, by throwing the grenade behind them and doing Bouncing Fish the moment you can act again, and by activating the hitbox as soon as possible.
This method is best when going for raw damage. For killing use Method 2.
Kill Potential: Here are the percents it kills at for each weight class:
Balloonweight - 90%+
Featherweight - 100%+
Middleweight - 115%+
Heavyweight - 120%+
Super Heavyweight - 125%+
It is possible to make this option kill earlier than shown by jumping before the Bouncing Fish, and hitting them slightly later. The percentages shown are for the easiest possible way to do it.
Method 2: Push the opponent to the edge and throw a grenade behind them. Follow their trajectory with both of your jumps and then Bouncing Fish just as they come out of hitstun. At higher percentages only use your grounded jump. Use this method for kills at lower percents than normal. Do not activate BF early for this method.
Kill Potential: This option kills much earlier than the previous option.
Balloonweight - 55%+
Featherweight - 60%+
Middleweight - 65%+
Heavyweight - 70%+
Super Heavyweight - 75%+
Works on: The entirety of the cast.
Grenade > UpSmash - Throw a grenade behind your opponent, then run up and UpSmash.
Throw a grenade behind your opponent the same way as shown in this video, then run up and UpSmash. If done correctly the explosion will true combo into tipper UpSmash. With this option there is no need to push the opponent to the ledge, as the UpSmash sends the opponent directly upwards.
This combo is true from 0% - 999%
On Super Heavyweights at 0% both hits of the UpSmash will connect after the grenade explosion.
Damage: This option deals 29% damage. 40% on Super Heavyweights at 0%.
Kill Potential: Here are the percents which this option kills for each weight class.
Balloonweight - 60%+
Featherweight - 70%+
Middleweight - 80%+
Heavyweight - 85%+
Super Heavyweight - 100%+
Works on: The entirety of the cast
Grenade > Footstool > Dair Spike - Throw a grenade behind your opponent, then footstool them out of the explosion, then Dair.
See this thread for how to do it, and who it works on.
This kinda needs to be used near the ledge, and at 60% and higher. It can also be used onstage though, and if only the spike hit connects, it can combo into a tipper UpSmash, or an aerial.
It is possible to footstool the opponent out of the explosion at all percents, 0% - 999%.
Damage: This option is a kill option only. You kill yourself so… yeah.
Kill Potential: Kills at varying percentages, depending on the stages bottom blast zone and the characters recovery. See the linked thread for more info.
Void Combo - UpTilt > Dash Forward Full Hop Needles > Fair > BF
Push them to the ledge, then UpTilt > Full hop Needles > Forward Air > Bouncing Fish.
Go to the Sheik Compendium here to see how to do full hop needles effectively.
This only works between 50% and 70% depending on the character, and only works on fast fallers.
To make this option kill slightly earlier, it is possible to do different variations of the combo, as @gsmVoiD void shows in the video embedded above.
Damage: This option deals 38% damage, but the point of this option is killing.
Kill Potential: See the video embedded above.
Works on: The 17 fastest fallers in the game. See this chart by @KuroganeHammer for the list.
Grenade > Aerial Needles > BF - Throw a grenade behind your opponent, then dash up and full hop needles into a followup.
Push the opponent to the ledge, and throw a grenade behind them. Then dash forward, and do a full hop needles after the explosion. Go to this thread for how to do full hop needles properly.
What makes this option good is its combo potential. It can combo into all of Sheik’s aerials, (barring Down Air) a Footstool (which leads into Down air on certain characters), and Bouncing Fish.
It is also possible to something similar to a Void combo out of the grenade explosion, and that works the same way as a Void combo, on the same characters and at the same percents.
Details shown for this option are for if you choose to combo the needles into a Bouncing Fish.
More of a flashy option, than an optimal one, but it's always nice to get clips for the combo video right? ^.^
Damage: This option deals 38% damage.
Kill Potential: Kill percents for this option on each weight class are:
Balloonweight - 70%+
Featherweight - 75%+
Middleweight - 85%+
Heavyweight - 90%+
Super Heavyweight - 95%+
Works on: The entirety of the cast.
Grenade > Grab - Throw a grenade behind your opponent then run up and grab them after the explosion.
Throw a grenade behind the opponent, then run up and grab them directly after the explosion. This option gives you many choices as to what you want to do, as you can do any of Sheik’s throw combos from this. This option is best used if you can’t net a kill at the percent the opponent is at, as it is best for damage, and it is difficult to get the grab. Once you get the timing down, this gets very easy, and it is even possible to grab the opponent out of the explosion at 999%.
Damage: If you pummel once then do a forward throw to Bouncing Fish after this option then it will deal 37% damage. Obviously the amount of damage you can get out of this depends on your ability to combo efficiently, and the opponents percentage.
Kill Potential: This option is primarily a damaging option, but you can go for kills at higher percents using Sheik’s down throw 50/50. See this thread for more info on the 50/50.
Works on: The entirety of the cast.
This list of shield break punishes is incomplete. Optimal punishes for shield breaks on certain stages, punishes involving the grenade shell, and punishes involving Jab locks will be added. If we have missed any obvious shield break punishes, please state them and they will be tested and added.
Any other shield break combos sheik can perform will be added to this thread also.
If you get any of this stuff in a game, please comment a link to a vid or GIF of it below, and I'll put it in this little section here:
Will paste links and names of people who get this stuff in a game here, DO IT MAH NINJAS
ItzFuzzyWuzzy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNzydRDOQK0
BeastySkillz TM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLWmeHRCK9M
ItzFuzzyWuzzy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNzydRDOQK0
BeastySkillz TM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLWmeHRCK9M
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