Meta Set Ph1r3 To The Rain - Roy Matchup Discussion [Zelda, Mario, Sheik 7.26.15-8.6.15]

[Macchiato]

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Welcome everyone to the Roy Match-Up Thread! Now that custom moves are being adopted throughout most competitive scenes, and both characters similarities. This will prove helpful in terms of updating the thread in a more timely manner, as well as keeping things organized. First, I would like to address the differences between this thread and the old ones.

1. As you will note from the match-up table below, you will see that there are boxes for both default moves as well as custom moves. These will indicate match-up scoring between both scenarios. The discussions will be weekly
2. The scoring system will also be different. It will not involve match-up ratios. When indicating match-up scoring one will state if you feel the match-up is even, a small advantage, small disadvantage etc. It is best if you saw how it would work as indicated below:
   • +3 = large advantage
     +2 = moderate advantage
     +1 = small advantage
     ±0 = even
     -1 = small disadvantage
     -2 = moderate disadvantage
     -3 = large disadvantage

Next, let's talk general posting guidelines:

• Substantiated posts. This means, we want posts that carry relevant information instead of, "Roy loses"
• Video/VOD backup to your information is greatly appreciated and carries more strength.
• We must assume that both sides of the character discussion are using their characters to the utmost potential.

 

[Gunla]

-Basic Table-

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|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?|?:?| ±0 |?:?|?:?|
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[Macchiato]

Post reserved for a Matchup table.

We can keep the OP rather clean and have perhaps a post dedicated to the table itself.

Could you sticky it or get a mod to?

 

[Gunla]

Could you sticky it or get a mod to?

Done.

For a reference, perhaps we could use the system I made for the Greninja boards?

 

[Macchiato]

Done.

For a reference, perhaps we could use the system I made for the Greninja boards?

Yes that looks great. I'll keep the scoring though. Ratios usually become a mess.

 

[Staticky]

I don't know what character were going to talk about first but I think it should be Luigi, as I think Roy is one of the only characters to have a matchup against Luigi in their favor. I'll explain why if necessary

 

[Macchiato]

We'll start tomorrow

 

[Odon]

why does roy have a good matchup against luigi?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I suggest you guys to look at these characters for the match up:



I am guessing these characters would have ways to work around Roy.

 

[Zaprong]

^You'd be surprised, but specially heavy weights can ruin Roy's day.

Specially King Dedede seems good, projectiles and such can be really difficult for Roy ro handle with Dededes fast moves

 

[TiGGesta]

Roy seems to have the most trouble with characters that can keep him at bay. His range is sub par, so he struggles with Rosalina (especially with customs), Ryu, Dedede etc.

 

[Staticky]

why does roy have a good matchup against luigi?

So I was hanging with my two friends earlier today, and my one friend is a luigi main and my other friend had decided to pick up Roy. I noticed alot of things with the MU, Roys close-up moveset is extremely good at stopping Luigi from grabbing him, which is Luigi's strong suit. Also, Luigi is pretty much impossible to combo on due to his floatiness. Luckily, Roy only needs to hit people a few times in air to rack up damage, and doesn't rely on combos like many other characters with bad Luigi MUs. Also, Luigi isn't a character that gimps often at all, so Roys weak recovery isn't punished in the MU. The only thing I can't test out by myself right now is how well Roy can gimp Luigi. After all, Luigi's recovery should be taken advantage of. My theory is that the counter could work really well to gimp, because Luigi is using moves with hitboxes to recover. It has to be executed perfectly, but I think it would work for a gimp.

 

[Macchiato]

Zelda can punish Roy pretty well and elevator him early. He's a perfect height for Nair-Elevator too which is a true combo now.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Zelda can punish Roy pretty well and elevator him early. He's a perfect height for Nair-Elevator too which is a true combo now.

Roy has longer disjoints than her though and she suffers a lot against long ranged disjoints

 

[Macchiato]

Roy has longer disjoints than her though and she suffers a lot against long ranged disjoints

Explain Zelda vs Lucina...

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Explain Zelda vs Lucina...

Her moves aren't safe on shield and have very low shieldstun so you can just run in, shield, and punish. Roy's moves have shieldstun and a lot of them also have very little cooldown

 

[Macchiato]

Her moves aren't safe on shield and have very low shieldstun so you can just run in, shield, and punish. Roy's moves have shieldstun and a lot of them also have very little cooldown

They're still not safe though. It looks even imo.

 

[Sora66]

What do u guys think is the best goto punish move for Roy?

 

[Davregis]

ftilt? strong n'quick

 

[FlAlex]

Roy seems to have the most trouble with characters that can keep him at bay. His range is sub par, so he struggles with Rosalina (especially with customs), Ryu, Dedede etc.

I don't see how Roy loses to Ryu. Ryu has pretty bad range for a melee fighter, IMO. I can only really see Ryu being a pain with his good projectiles and his Heavy d-tilt.

I agree with DeDeDe. Went against a FG DDD, and his heavy hitting, slow moves are hard to punish for Roy. Especially his up special and F-Smash, since both have some weaker hitboxes just outside of DDD's body/his hammer.

Have not found a Rosalina to battle yet, so I cannot comment.

 

[Macchiato]

What do u guys think is the best goto punish move for Roy?

JC Usmash or Dash Grab

I don't see how Roy loses to Ryu. Ryu has pretty bad range for a melee fighter, IMO. I can only really see Ryu being a pain with his good projectiles and his Heavy d-tilt.

I agree with DeDeDe. Went against a FG DDD, and his heavy hitting, slow moves are hard to punish for Roy. Especially his up special and F-Smash, since both have some weaker hitboxes just outside of DDD's body/his hammer.

Have not found a Rosalina to battle yet, so I cannot comment.

Rosalina probably wins because LOL Rosalinda @ S.F.L.R_9

 

[Gunla]

@ Macchiato
In the interest of getting good info, I'd actually recommend giving time to let the character develop. Maybe two+ weeks of general MUs before we get into the nitty gritty sections?

Roy hasn't been out for even 12 hours; we don't want to hastily gather data when there's no tournaments allowing him other than some "Day 1" things. Also, keep in mind that we haven't discovered every change in the patch, so it might be good to wait until the dust settles.

 

[Macchiato]

@ Macchiato
In the interest of getting good info, I'd actually recommend giving time to let the character develop. Maybe two+ weeks of general MUs before we get into the nitty gritty sections?

Roy hasn't been out for even 12 hours; we don't want to hastily gather data when there's no tournaments allowing him other than some "Day 1" things. Also, keep in mind that we haven't discovered every change in the patch, so it might be good to wait until the dust settles.

Sounds good, Right now it'll just be impressions on Match-Ups

 

[MintChipper]

What do u guys think is the best goto punish move for Roy?

I like Blazer, it deals 16%, and has super armor.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Zelda can punish Roy pretty well and elevator him early. He's a perfect height for Nair-Elevator too which is a true combo now.

Got proof of that Zelda combo?

If it's true I'm winning my next tournament.
My opinion so far is the MU is even, Zelda does things to Roy and Roy returns with his own tricks. I'm much more interested in learning how our boy does against shiek...

 

[Gawain]

Seems way too early to talk much about this any detail if you ask me. But to throw my 2 cents in: I think Roy will have good matchups vs fast fallers for the most part and possibly bad ones vs really floaty characters. Roys grab game is devastating to Fox etc. A lot stuff works on them that ONLY works on them but that allow Roy to build damage incredibly fast and secure kills with relatively safe confirms.

To be specific to one I know well, I think Captain will be at the best even because captain falcon just annihilates his defense. Roy may benefit from his fall speed but Falcon gains even more and he can blastzone Roy extremely early off the sides with knee, which is comically easy to land on Roy from throw or uair. Falcon can dance around Roy pretty easily too. I've found that dtilt and jab are invaluable tools for Roy against his grabs. Also Roy can edge guard Falcon easily with stuff like Flare Blade which his below the edge if you space it right.

 

[Ussi]

How the heck do you fight Marth? He dances at the range where your sourspots are, which can be punished even if they hit at times.

 

[Kenith]

Roy seems to have the most trouble with characters that can keep him at bay. His range is sub par, so he struggles with Rosalina (especially with customs), Ryu, Dedede etc.

Can confirm. Some of Ryu's attacks have deceptively long range, like his Smashes. I just came from fighting a Ryu for several matches, he was good. I won twice.

 

[Macchiato]

Got proof of that Zelda combo?

http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-social-ryu-is-ryu-zelda-is-dan.344739/page-1771#post-19412454

 

[Wintropy]

Is it just me, or does Roy struggle against zoners? I played against my friend's Lucas and Ryu, and I had a hell of a time getting past her defenses.

I'll take a gander at this again later, just thought it may be worth investigating. May be anecdotal, but if it's a universal rule of thumb, it could be dangerous.

 

[Mono.]

Thanks to the armor and multihit, Roy's Blazer beats out Ryu's invulnerable shoryuken. A fun thing to note if you're going for the hard read on his DP, especially if he's in kill percent.

Also, those who say that roy has trouble with zoners will just need to learn to be patient. Controlled aggression. If your opponent's trying to wall you out, don't try to drive the truck that Roy is through it. You'll crash. Make use of Roy's natural mobility options such doing a lot more tomahawks and perfect pivots. Powershielding is plenty helpful against a good deal of projectiles and roy's Frame 5 jab clanks and or destroys projectiles such as Ryu's Hadokens (not sure about sakuretsu but I doubt it) and reflects Dedede's gordos. Take your time and weave you way in. Once you make it past, don't let your opponent breath for even a second. Always be on the read, always be on the pressure, don't let them gain distance.

 

[phoopes]

I find that Roy has a lot of trouble with Olimar, for the same reasons that he has trouble with Rosalina. "Characters that are able to keep him at bay," as someone put it. Someone who uses their Pikmin well can be a real hassle, and I think that's a clear bad matchup for Roy.

 

[FlAlex]

How the heck do you fight Marth? He dances at the range where your sourspots are, which can be punished even if they hit at times.

I have some experience with playing Marth. Every move but dtilt has some end lag, so I suggest playing a baiting game. Roy is faster than Marth, no? Just keep right out of his range until your opponent uses a move you can punish. Dance around him constantly. All of his tilts (besides dtilt) should have just enough end lag for Roy to Dash grab or Dash attack as a punish. I think Marth's moves are also unsafe on shield unless tipper-ed, so you could also try to shield his attacks.

Where I see Marth really being a pain is in the air. I believe he has one of the best Fairs in the game, even after all the nerfs. Its just so fast and long, its worth the end lag. Marth can be a real pain if the opponent knows to FH>Fair>Fair. I've only seen one opponent do that to me and he covered himself completely. It was difficult to get in (I was playing Samus or Greninja atm so I dont know if Roy might have an answer to Marth's FH>2Fairs).

Hope this helped!

 

[AlMasterX]

I feel as though Roy struggles against the more powerful zoning characters in general. Staying really mobile and in their face is the best way to play it out, unless you'd rather just change your character...

 

[NocturnalQuill]

As a Ness main looking for a secondary, I want to know two things: can he kill Rosalina, and can he kill Sonic?

 

[Odon]

I actually had a hard time vs Ike with Roy, Ike seems like he can shut down alot of roy's approaches which is a bit of a pain. he also outranges Roy so he can just space you out with nairs waiting for you to commit to something

 

[The Big Wang Theory]

I've been facing a DHD main with Roy, and it seems like he can really shut down a lot of DHD's options if he gets in. He can edgeguard the DHD's recovery either on reaction with aerials or prediction with Flare Blade. The zoning is irritating to get around but he's quick enough to keep them on their toes. His combos work wonders at keeping the momentum in his favor.

 

[GaiustheThief]

I actually decided to go Roy Day 1 in our Houston weeklies yesterday against a local Sheik player just to test out the matchup. We were around the same skill level but Sheik literally ran circles over Roy with her fast attacks. It was definitely hard for me to get in and Roy has a really good weight and falling speed which makes him easier to combo than other characters.

 

[shadowdude]

I main sheik so I think sheik can destroy Roy for three reasons

1. Not only can she easily keep up with Roy but her moves are way faster then Roy's leading into a lot difficulty.

2. Roy doesn't have a good recovery and a good sheik gets most ko's off of off-stage gimps(sheik is pretty much the best gimper in the game)

3. And the worst probably is needles. They are quick and Roy doesn't have a reply to them,making needle camping devastating

 

[Zerg_]

I feel like the MU vs Ness is pretty difficult for Roy. Due to Ness' weight, there's a much smaller range of % that Roy can combo Dthrow to Blazer. Not only that, but double edge dance is a lot more difficult to combo on Ness, because he floats out of it easily.

Ness also seems to be able to edgeguard Roy quite easily, with Pk Thunder and combos him very well due to Roy's weight. I'd love to hear more thoughts on this MU, and to be honest, just how to deal with Ness in general, haha.