Semi-Adv. Technique? - Inputting attacks before they are performed.

[Japanese Monk]

It's not canceling anything though, so it's not really an l-cancel by definition. But I agree with you on your last statement, that it does let you avoid the "unnecessary idle frames.".

Isnt L-canceling just lag canceling? So yeah, by definitiion it is canceling the lag of one move, and replacing it with something more practical....

Just because the game is replacing the lag doesnt mean its NOT L-canceling because technically speaking....like I said L-cancel is lag cancel. This is canceling the "lag". When refering to "lag" we mean the idle frames (like you stated)...

you get me?

 

[lemonlau36]

Isnt L-canceling just lag canceling? So yeah, by definitiion it is canceling the lag of one move, and replacing it with something more practical....

Just because the game is replacing the lag doesnt mean its NOT L-canceling because technically speaking....like I said L-cancel is lag cancel. This is canceling the "lag". When refering to "lag" we mean the idle frames (like you stated)...

you get me?

No no no... there is NO lag being cancelled here. The attack still has all of it's recovery frames. It does not shorten the total length of the move whatsoever.

 

[Jinx]

Isnt L-canceling just lag canceling? So yeah, by definitiion it is canceling the lag of one move, and replacing it with something more practical....

Just because the game is replacing the lag doesnt mean its NOT L-canceling because technically speaking....like I said L-cancel is lag cancel. This is canceling the "lag". When refering to "lag" we mean the idle frames (like you stated)...

you get me?

It doesn't cancel any lag. I'll try to give an example:
1. A second attack can be timed so that it comes out as soon as an aerial attack is complete
2. A second attack can be "buffered" (input on the controller before it actually comes out) to come out as soon as an aerial attack is complete

1 = 2

I decided to do a search for a technical definition of l-cancelling (so I could get exact wording; I am proficient with it in SSBM but just wanted someone else's wording, lol): "Hitting L/R/Z the moment you hit the ground will cut this landing animation in half." "Buffering" does not cancel the landing animation. It makes it so that people without "perfect timing" (as someone replied earlier) can follow up an aerial with another attack as soon as the aerial is complete. The second attack doesn't come out before the first is over, you can just INPUT the second attack before the aerial is over so that it comes out right after it is.

Also, as far as I know, the "L" in L-canceling doesn't stand for lag (even though I do see a lot of people refer to it as "lag canceling"). It stands for the button you press (or what I would assume is the most commonly used button for this, as opposed to R/Z) in order to perform the technique. Hence why it was called Z-canceling in SSB64. Of course, I could be wrong as I simply learned the technique in SSBM (~3-4 years ago) and didn't do a complete history on its background.

I think I may have been a little redundant in the above explanation, but it's the best way I can put it into words. But I do see your point.

sounds like in fifa how you can already setup ur next pass before the character even gets the ball-random anaology but same concept. Anyone know what im talkin bout?

This would be pretty cool if it not only works, but can be dependable(works 100 percent of the time)

Yeah, from what I remember (haven't played a Fifa game in a few years) it's the same concept. Also, it IS dependable in Brawl.

No no no... there is NO lag being cancelled here. The attack still has all of it's recovery frames. It does not shorten the total length of the move whatsoever.

D@mn, you worded that well (much better than me). So concise too. :embarrass

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

Another thing this "Buffering"topic reminds me about is the universal Street Fighter 2-in-1s.Ryu,Ken ect are famous for their Down medium kick to F+any p resulting in a fireball but due to the previous kick,its a 2 hit combo done in one motion.Man..1st parrying,now buffering.Sakurai must be a SF fan.

 

[naevorc]

Wait wait wait, are we sure this isn't because of the new brawl mechanic "air moves have no lag if completed before coming in contact with the ground" ? sounds related but i'm not sure.

edit: correct my lazy *** if wrong tho, i just dont have time to read through the topic atm.

 

[Moosh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYFnneqyMbw

i tried my best to make a video showing how this works. sorry for bad quality but thats youtube for you.. that and my pc isnt the greatest.. my main pc is undergoing maint. and this was the best i could do.. also, read the comment i wrote for more info on the video..

Wait wait wait, are we sure this isn't because of the new brawl mechanic "air moves have no lag if completed before coming in contact with the ground" ? sounds related but i'm not sure.

edit: correct my lazy *** if wrong tho, i just dont have time to read through the topic atm.

if this is done correctly, you do the airial move then land and press the buttons for the next action while in the lag frames... moves like marf i mean marth's neutral A have almost 0 lag, almost as if it is being autocanceled if thats what u mean.... this isn't that

edit: sorry its 4am and i just understood what u ment.. if you finish the airial move in mid air there will be no lag when u land. just the jumping animation.. it's not that either lol

 

[slikvik]

Wait wait wait, are we sure this isn't because of the new brawl mechanic "air moves have no lag if completed before coming in contact with the ground" ? sounds related but i'm not sure.

edit: correct my lazy *** if wrong tho, i just dont have time to read through the topic atm.

no, its not and what you are talking about isn't new. its in melee too, and smash 64...

 

[ComboTurtle]

No, you can still time attack 2 after attack 1 is over & it'll come out at the same time as if you input attack 2 before attack 1 was complete.

yep this is true it just gives you a bigger window of opportunity to perform the move.

 

[TierWhore]

I was doing this all yesterday at a smashfest in NY, i would cancel luigi's uptaunt into his lefttaunt, it looked really cool, lol.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Is this overall a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[DRaGZ]

I think it's an overall good thing. A LOT of fighting games use buffering to their advantage to set up combos more effectively.

 

[mugwhump]

The buffer frames are only available on the ground.


-Syn

?
No, I don't think so. You can definitely buffer actions in the air. It's not as noticeable as on the ground, but it's still there.

Anyways, some more explanation for anyone who's curious

-Buffering something out of a shield is, as others have said, very useful. As soon as you let go of the shield button you can do the input for your attack, and your attack will come out super-quick. This combined with greatly reduced shield stun means shielding in brawl is teh good.

-You can buffer multiple actions. So for example you can press jump then A when finishing an attack, so that when the attack is finished you jump on the first possible frame an use an arial on the first possible frame. This also lets you air dodge on the first possible frame of your jump.

-Very little landing lag from air dodges makes it a good time to buffer stuff.

I also think jab-fakes are just buffering. I haven't noticed pressing L doing anything whatsoever.

I'm pretty keen on the buffer system, I can't say I've noticed it making me screw up except for multiple jumps with MK/Pit.

Yeah I like buffers.

 

[Phlemingo]

I've noticed many times that when a character is hit while on the ground and stays on the ground, they recieve a noticeable amount of hitstun.

 

[pesticide]

sounds good. good find moosh (and others)!

 

[FrostByte]

You could buffer rolls and dodges in melee with the Shield+ c-stick at any time on the ground. This is probably the only way to do it in brawl now since you can't do it on the ground anymore

 

[brawlmaniac]

Cool. We'll have to see how this will affect tournament play.

 

[Ti11erTheKi11er]

Sounds GREAT! thanks for a GOOD THREAD for once! Thanks moosh