Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Zano]

welp, get ready for battlefield to be banned against every marth forever.

 

[Xyro77]

Wiiu version has other good platform stages.

 

[Shaya]

Meh, i'd say its just as hard to hit people with tipper fsmash on a battlefield platform this game compared to the last.
Rosalina for example is completely immune to tipper fsmash while she sits on a platform due to invincible feet/legs.

 

[Emblem Lord]

He already is better. At this point i am officially dropping her. Her forum is a stark contrast to the marth forums. I find it both unsettling and depressing

 

[Shaya]

The people perusing there aren't really competitively minded or ready.
It's still just an awakening fan circle.
No matter what I do or say, they just aren't interested in Smash I don't think. It's a shame, because it's going to kill any chance that character has of actually being developed independently or even alongside us. It's a dead end full of seemingly school-aged children who will keep saying "I like Lucina because she can play more aggressively".

What would've been ideal is just that realisation that one is better (which is the case) accompanied by the truth of people having a preference, but otherwise we would be able to work together for just about everything.

I'm sure the Lucina mains with ambitions will just start to use the Marth boards for that purpose. She's still 'fine', she's just like that... 5-10% weaker/harder in every department that matters, except for killing, in which case she's a lot weaker. I'm still playing her a lot, I truly do like the idea of weighted training shoes/clothing, and she fits that purpose amazingly.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Lucina forums = Ultimate Waifu circle jerk fantasy.

It is sad, confusing, and infuriating all at once.

 

[TheJerm]

Ive been her a lot and I plan on developing her alone outside of marth. I think she actually kills alot easier than marth

 

[Nike.]

Played a local ness throughout brawl's life. Never took a set off me and I won 95% of all friendlies we've ever played. I was his final boss.

I could not take one single game from him this past weekend, including a disgusting 2-0 in our first 3ds tourney.

Why is WiiU version not out yet? I want order restored

 

[Shaya]

Ive been her a lot and I plan on developing her alone outside of marth. I think she actually kills alot easier than marth

I think shieldbreaker can kill for Lucina in scenarios where we wouldn't, but otherwise I really don't see it. Whether Lucina can make that claim really comes down to whether or not she's dealing damage faster than Marth would in a match. If Marth is able to deal 10% more damage than Lucina just by virtue of having tippers and spacing around tippers, then I think Marth's going to hit 130% killing with untippered smashes before Lucina gets to 120-125% where her smashes kill. So like, if you don't think you can hit with any one of Marth's moves tippered more than 5 times a stock (aerials/tilts/whatever) then I guess Lucina will look vastly better at killing. I put a lot of weight on the fact that Marth's tipper uair and back air are actually going to kill, while Lucina's back air is only killing people in a gimping scenario.

Played a local ness throughout brawl's life. Never took a set off me and I won 95% of all friendlies we've ever played. I was his final boss.

I could not take one single game from him this past weekend, including a disgusting 2-0 in our first 3ds tourney.

Why is WiiU version not out yet? I want order restored

Ness is good :< I think he badly loses to our shield still though.

 

[Zano]

it's ok Nike, I lost to ness during brawl, and I still lose to ness now

 

[TheJerm]

I'm mainly focusing on her smash attacks that kill faster and easier in situations. No matter where you hit them, they have a very strong knock back. Like when someone lands really close to lucina, you can read them with a fsmash and it'll kill. Marths fsmash wont kill in that situation unless tipped, or it'll they have to be at higher percent. Its also easy to run up to someone and throw out a upsmash that'll kill with any part of its large hitbox. Not the case with marth. Lucina's downsmash second hit has insane knockback as well. No matter where it hits, but im not sure about that one with marth. Ive always thought that marth is theoretically better than lucina though/ Specially with that little extra range, which I find important.
I also like the way lucinas ariels hit the enemy, its easier to follow up with my next move because there's less variables

 

[Emblem Lord]

Jerm is basically saying..he doesnt have to think as much with lucina. You swing with lucina they travel in the same trajectory everytime. Its one less thing to concern yourself with in your thought process. She is easier. Easier doesnt mean better. Just means less difficult to utilize effectively.

 

[Shaya]

Up Smash is sub 10% kill difference between Marth and Lucina on standard stages on a significant majority of the cast.
I don't believe their hitboxes are different.

Trajectories aren't really altered much on tippers beyond down smash, and otherwise they're consistent between both characters. Tipper Fair sending them maybe 10 extra paces in a 45 degree angle doesn't tend to require more thinking from me, but eh that could just be me.

And from what I've seen, unless its tippered, their downsmashes just don't kill (I didn't realise the second hit may have the kill power this game, in Brawl it was the opposite *whoops*). First hit of down smash isn't killing Wario at like 160%+ fresh on Lucina. I'll check that out later.

 

[Random4811]

Honestly, I would be lost if his voice was in english. I know the timing on everything based on his voice clips. Plus with an english VA, I could understand what he's saying.. and then we run into the Sonic problem. A lot of his voice clips are stupid now. I know what his taunt says, and I would be interested to see what translations they would go with in terms of his down taunt and victories, but in the end it wouldnt have the same presence.

Ive been her a lot and I plan on developing her alone outside of marth. I think she actually kills alot easier than marth

Talk to my tipper F smash or tipper f tilt before you make assumptions about Lucinas inferiority [which she still has.]

Personally, Marth is the better option. Its much harder to kill with Lucina. Shes able to do really close range and not suffer from it, sure.. But she lacks the ability to be played like Marth. For her moveset, that really detracts from her playability. Its like, all the tools are there, but they're dull and old.

 

[TheJerm]

In my post I said I think marth is better. I was replying to what he was saying about people developing lucina and seeing what she can do. I do like her smash attacks better though. That 10 percent upsmash difference definitely helps, and I think it gets better with rage. Also, someone landing close to you and you killing them with fsmash isnt just thinking less, its a actual important option. People land close to shield grab, or land with ariels all the time. So being able to use fsmash effectly as a landing lag/punish kill move (in more situations than tippered) is pretty nice.
Also, about less thinking.. I'd say thats also something you'd want to consider for tournament play. There's already enough going through my head in a tournament match as is. But i'll rarely pull out lucina in tournament I think, my other characters cover me well. Ive always just liked to play marth and now I can play her.

 

[Shaya]

Thanks Jerm, I'd be honoured for you to keep us up to date with helpful Lucina goss.
Yeah, with rage it would have some impact. For the most part it's likely looking on the sub 10% difference without rage, like, 7-8% for most of the cast and that probably doesn't extend by too much at most percent, but yeah, it can definitely make the difference. She is likely a safer choice in doubles because of that (actually generally feel she is better in doubles because that's where the easier/consistency part really matters), but in singles I think the damage difference in smash attacks is likely negated by both players still preferring to space at the tip and Marth's damage output coming out on top [another thing less important in doubles].

I have a lot of reason to continue to play her in a majority of my "Marth" practise, and I think she's set up to be great in doubles where those 1v1/singular hit aspects are less pronounced. I don't think she'll completely fall behind, but it really may come down to being a Marth community thing in essence.

 

[Edz]

Down the line im gonna be the best marth in both versions if u got a better one come show me

You heard it hear first remember the name Edz

 

[Crawfish]

yo whattup son, come at me bro

 

[Zano]

I can't imagine anyone wants the title of best 3ds marth or that it will mean a single thing outside of being the only one but good luck to you.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wants it, when you just plainly are never going to be able to take it off of my hands

 

[Nike.]

Anyone notice anything different in the new patch?

 

[Sol0ke]

Marth's range I hear is better

 

[Emblem Lord]

Falsehoods until proven

 

[Zano]

I heard he has his melee dair

 

[Shaya]

There are no balance changes.
Unless Smash 3DS has some of the best backwards compatibility out of any game or system I've ever seen.

 

[Locuan]

The people perusing there aren't really competitively minded or ready.

I'm still here, do not fret.

I think she actually kills alot easier than marth

Eh, if you have a hard time spacing with Marth I can see that being a thought. But, Marth can kill faster if done correctly.

Anyone notice anything different in the new patch?

There's a patch?!?! Patch-notes?...

Additionally, the RNG calculator chose Marth for the match-up discussion this week on the Lucina boards...

 

[Thinkaman]

Shaya is correct, there are no character changes in 1.0.3. It's minor menu fixes + the ability to share screenshots.

Honestly, it was probably complete and started the long certification process before the NA release of the game.

 

[Zano]

you could share screenshots before so I just want to know what the **** needed 500 blocks, cuz the online is still bad at times too.

GOTTA MAKE SURE THAT CONQUEST MODE WORKS RIGHT

 

[TheJerm]

Killing doesnt always have to do with spacing. Its very situational

 

[Mindles]

Big Battlefield + Marth =Wut

 

[Shaya]

I'm still here, do not fret

<3 A SHINING STAR!
A worthy addition to the Fabulous Family.

 

[Satan-]

Anybody here wanna play some Marth dittos? I would love to see how some of you play Marth and if I can, add techniques to my Marth.

 

[Hadou]

I'm glad Marth has such a loyal following. I wish I could say I was -just- as loyal, but I really switched between him and Roy in Melee. That was back when I was playing for fun though. Same with Brawl. But with 3DS, I'm listening to all the competitive stuff and technical things about tippers and it's beautiful. I can really see a difference and I was loving Marth ever since I started playing. Screw Lucina. #tippersandtiaras

 

[SmashBroski]

What's the pose Marth's doing at 2:07? Taunt? Counter?

I haven't seen it in the 3DS version at all...

 

[Kinslayer]

Lucina forums = Ultimate Waifu circle jerk fantasy.

It is sad, confusing, and infuriating all at once.

Yeah it's so stupid! I can't believe those guys just over there jackin it to lucina simply cuse she is in the game. It's downright shameful.

*hides half empty lotion bottle and deletes all post on lucina boards*

 

[Kinslayer]

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wants it, when you just plainly are never going to be able to take it off of my hands

You don't want these problems Shaya. Tipper that tira right off your dome! It's obvious that I am king!

 

[Shaya]

What's the pose Marth's doing at 2:07? Taunt? Counter?

I haven't seen it in the 3DS version at all...

Looks kinda like an idle animation or maybe a landing one. Otherwise could've just been made for the cinematics.

 

[Xinc]

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wants it, when you just plainly are never going to be able to take it off of my hands

Them fightin' words.

Also the post before, it looks like part of his taunt (the side one)

 

[Zano]

I got a 3ds capture card, so I can start recording stuff, whooo.

 

[yoyowoodchuckguy]

So, I've been playing a lot of Marth lately and I've been really enjoying his elegant play style. I'm picking him up as at least a secondary, maybe my main, we'll see.

I've been reading the discussion about Lucina compared to Marth, and how most people have concluded that she is the weaker of the two. While I feel that this is usually true, I feel that there is one exception: against fast, rushdown/weave style characters, I feel that Lucina may have the advantage. I'll use Sonic as an example. Most Sonic players play a style of aggressive rushdown, ideally with spin-dash mix-ups. Sonic is often moving too fast when approaching for us Marth players to optimally space tippers to shut him down. This is where I feel Lucina may shine. Her sword still out-ranges many other attacks, yet her spacing doesn't need to be quite as precise as Marth's, so she can throw out hitboxes against these aggressive characters more effectively, shutting down their approaches with her superior range.

Granted, this is just theory-crafting at the moment, as there's no local Sm4sh scene where I'm at, and not many people play a rushdown style in For Glory. I hope to be able to eventually test these ideas out more.